just been bitten by blue ring

fish lad · 02/11/2008, 05:55 AM

about 3 mins ago

what do i do, i am off to hospital now! what do i tell them?

PLEASE FFS I AM SERIOUS am i going to die

waif · 02/11/2008, 06:03 AM

Bite it back?

waif · 02/11/2008, 06:04 AM

Seriously go to the hospital

Pea-brain · 02/11/2008, 01:40 PM

I hope you are kidding...

If you are not have them put you on life support for 24 hours. The venom will flush out of your system by then. While it is in your body cannot support itself.

Dan

TellyFish · 02/11/2008, 02:09 PM

Just for reference, the ReefCentral Forums cannot and should not be considered an acceptable alternative to 911.

Seriously, I hope everything is OK.

Animal Mother · 02/11/2008, 04:56 PM

I don't think the first I would do if I was bitten by a blue ring would be jump on here and wait for an answer.

Phyxius · 02/11/2008, 05:03 PM

I dont think I would be posting here as first thought either. I knew these were bad if bitten but a quick search brought up this:

The bite of the blue-ringed octopus may be painless but it is definitely deadly. Its venom contains some maculotoxin which is more violent than any animals found on land. This poison is 10,000 times more potent that cyanide. Upon being bitten, the victim's nerve conduction is stopped and paralysis sets in after a few minutes. Paralysis is then followed by death. Some symptoms are as follows:

*Nausea

*Blindness

*Loss of all other senses

If you do see someone get bit you should immediately call 911, and then apply compression to the wound as if it was a snake bite. Artificial respiration should also be started as soon as possible. The only way to survive is hours of heart massage and artificial respiration until the poison has worked its way out of the system. There is no anit-venom to date.

Echidna09 · 02/12/2008, 12:49 AM

FYI the toxin blue rings have is Tetrodotoxin, or TTX; the same thing that is found in Fugu. There was a little vile that was supposed to cure the poison somewhere online. The price tag was $500 for I believe only one treatment. To my knowledge, research has not been done to find out whether or not a blue ring is as poisonous when it is in captivity, and it is believed that captive specimens do not carry a sufficient amount of TTX to kill a human. You still need to be extremely careful though and don't experiment!

I don't think I believe it either. Seems like a troll to me...

If you really did get bit I wish you the best on a recovery.

Thales · 02/12/2008, 05:54 PM

Their bite is apparently not always toxin laden, like Echidna says so, if this isn't a troll I hope this is the case an you are just fine. FWIW, there seems to be conflicting reports of toxicity in captivity.

Otherwise, to anyone choosing to keep potentially deadly animals, be sure to know what to do if you are bitten BEFORE you are bitten.

andygb54303 · 02/16/2008, 10:24 AM

no response he must have died, a moment of silence please.

i dont beleive it

MonkeyKeeper911 · 02/16/2008, 05:53 PM

who gets bit then jumps online and makes a post saying ok im going to the hospital now.

Gonodactylus · 02/17/2008, 06:26 PM

I assume this was a troll and that no harm was done. However, it did point out to me how much misinformation there is about blue-rings.

First, it is correct that the active toxin in Hapalochlaena species that have been studied to date is TTX. However, that includes only H. fasciata, H. maculosa and H. lunulata. There are probably another half dozen or so species out their that have not been described or studied. The assumption is that they have TTX. How much is open to speculation.

Second, there are absolutely no data to my knowledge that report a loss of toxicity in any blue-ring when it is kept in the aquarium. There have been suggestions that this happens with puffers, but it has not been reported in blue-rings. It is a topic that we are working on, but the the data are not yet in. Therefore, one should assume that any blue-ring contains a lethal dose of TTX.

Third, death from a blue-ring envenomation is due to the cessation of breathing. Ventilation is sometimes called for, but one would want to leave the heart along unless a health professional detects a problem.

Fourth, there is no currently approved anti-venom.

Fifth, if you plan on keeping a blue-ring, you should do what we do - notify local emergency responders and ER's that you have such an animal and that it possesses TTX. That way, if you are transported to an emergency facility, the medics will know what they are dealing with. In fact, every blue-ring tank in our lab has a warning label describing what it contains and how to deal with an emergency .

Roy

Thales · 02/17/2008, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gonodactylus
[B]
Second, there are absolutely no data to my knowledge that report a loss of toxicity in any blue-ring when it is kept in the aquarium. There have been suggestions that this happens with puffers, but it has not been reported in blue-rings. It is a topic that we are working on, but the the data are not yet in. Therefore, one should assume that any blue-ring contains a lethal dose of TTX.

Thanks Roy! Is it true that they can bite without 'injecting' TTX?

Gonodactylus · 02/18/2008, 01:14 AM

The venom delivery system is passive. The salivary ducts empty near the beak, so the TTX basically dribbles into the wound. This means that circumstances of the bite will vary. Also, there is some debate on whether TTX will penetrate the skin if there is not a bite.

Roy

Thales · 02/18/2008, 11:22 AM

Thanks for the clarifications Roy.

Twisted · 03/04/2008, 04:52 PM

Glad to see such and expert on the forums with such a dangerous species available to the public.
You would not beleive how many people I have had come into the store that saw one online and wants me to order them one.
I usually refuse, unless they can give me some specifics on keeping them, then I know they atleast researched them.

Plankt0s · 03/04/2008, 05:18 PM

why don't you just not ever order one for anyone... The only people that should have animals like this are the people that are studying them professionally. If we the hobbyist are not more responsible than to own such a deadly animal than there eventually will be some type of control placed on this and other animals limiting what we will be able to keep.

Twisted · 03/04/2008, 05:21 PM

If I don't order them for anyone, am I not already limiting what you may keep?

Thales · 03/04/2008, 06:59 PM

Twisted · 03/04/2008, 07:20 PM

How are you Rich? Didn't see you at the MARS swap last weekend.
I am thinking about doing a Cephlapod soon, so might ask you your opinion on a couple things once the tank is up and running to see what you think, and suggest, if you don't mind. That won't be for a good 6 months though.

Thales · 03/04/2008, 07:30 PM

Im super, thanks for asking.

I couldn't make it to the swap - way too much going on. I heard it was good though. Do you think you'll make it to the BAR regional swap in August?

Ask away when you are ready, but I think you'll want one of these:

Twisted · 03/04/2008, 07:36 PM

Whats max size on him, are those ones reef safe by chance? He would look great in my 55 gallon reef, but my anemone would eat him.

Bar swap should be a go for me, my baby is due in April, so hopefully the wife will be willing to let me go.

Mars we had like 30 people show up between the Redding club and the Chico club, so hopefully we can get close to that again for BAR, a bit more of a drive though.

Freed · 03/04/2008, 07:42 PM

If you're stupid enough to have a blue ring then the consequences should come as no surprise to you when you get bit. That's just too funny

trae · 03/04/2008, 08:00 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Phyxius
[B]I dont think I would be posting here as first thought either. I knew these were bad if bitten but a quick search brought up this:

The bite of the blue-ringed octopus may be painless but it is definitely deadly. Its venom contains some maculotoxin which is more violent than any animals found on land. This poison is 10,000 times more potent that cyanide. Upon being bitten, the victim's nerve conduction is stopped and paralysis sets in after a few minutes. Paralysis is then followed by death. Some symptoms are as follows:

**** ** *Loss of all other senses******
Common senses?
Now i see why he waited to die Bwaaa!!

FishyMel · 03/13/2008, 04:27 PM

I think this guy was pulling our legs, I seriously doubt he came and posted this and then went to the hospital. Then he never posted again...

Anyway fro whay I've heard only 3 have died from a bluering in history and their beak is usually to small to penetrate human skin. Correct me if I'm wrong.

02/11/2008, 05:55 AM	#1
fish lad Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: UK, bath Posts: 236	just been bitten by blue ring about 3 mins ago what do i do, i am off to hospital now! what do i tell them? PLEASE FFS I AM SERIOUS am i going to die Last edited by DgenR8; 02/18/2008 at 05:45 AM.

02/11/2008, 02:09 PM	#5
TellyFish Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Chicago 60607 Posts: 1,130	Just for reference, the ReefCentral Forums cannot and should not be considered an acceptable alternative to 911. Seriously, I hope everything is OK. __________________ ...and life spirals into astonishing diversity. Current Tank Info: Hawaiian inspired 109g Miracles Rimless - 100g Prop Tank - 300g total system volume

02/11/2008, 04:56 PM	#6
Animal Mother Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 452	I don't think the first I would do if I was bitten by a blue ring would be jump on here and wait for an answer. __________________ "You might not believe it but under fire Animal Mother is one of the finest human beings in the world. All he needs is someone to throw hand grenades at him for the rest of his life." - Full Metal Jacket Current Tank Info: 60 gallon cube, w/ 30 gallon sump, octopus-proof lid. Dry for now.

02/11/2008, 05:03 PM	#7
Phyxius Moving About Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: RTP NC Posts: 2,405	I dont think I would be posting here as first thought either. I knew these were bad if bitten but a quick search brought up this: The bite of the blue-ringed octopus may be painless but it is definitely deadly. Its venom contains some maculotoxin which is more violent than any animals found on land. This poison is 10,000 times more potent that cyanide. Upon being bitten, the victim's nerve conduction is stopped and paralysis sets in after a few minutes. Paralysis is then followed by death. Some symptoms are as follows: Nausea Blindness *Loss of all other senses If you do see someone get bit you should immediately call 911, and then apply compression to the wound as if it was a snake bite. Artificial respiration should also be started as soon as possible. The only way to survive is hours of heart massage and artificial respiration until the poison has worked its way out of the system. There is no anit-venom to date. __________________ -Mike I never drink water because of the disgusting things that fish do in it. W. C. Fields Current Tank Info: JUST SOLD AND TOOK DOWN ALL 11/10---210g AGA, 80g sump, Tunze Streams. Tunze ATO,RK Elite Controller, RKII,Dart, GEO Calcium& Nielsen Kalk Reactors,GEO media reactor, Kaleini Rock, 3-250 watt 14k EVC , VHO..... 34g Solana and 60g cube

02/12/2008, 05:54 PM	#9
Thales Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: bay area Posts: 3,808	Their bite is apparently not always toxin laden, like Echidna says so, if this isn't a troll I hope this is the case an you are just fine. FWIW, there seems to be conflicting reports of toxicity in captivity. Otherwise, to anyone choosing to keep potentially deadly animals, be sure to know what to do if you are bitten BEFORE you are bitten. __________________ The reefer formally known as Lefty Ink is the way; the way is ink. Current Tank Info: 150 mixed reef with a 180 remote sump • 250 gallon fish breeding system • 200 gallon cephalopod breeding system • 212,000 gallon reef tank at work

02/11/2008, 06:03 AM	#2
waif Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 94	Bite it back?

02/11/2008, 06:04 AM	#3
waif Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 94	Seriously go to the hospital

02/11/2008, 01:40 PM	#4
Pea-brain Moved On Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Vassalboro, ME Posts: 1,661	I hope you are kidding... If you are not have them put you on life support for 24 hours. The venom will flush out of your system by then. While it is in your body cannot support itself. Dan

02/12/2008, 12:49 AM	#8
Echidna09 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sandy, UT Posts: 595	FYI the toxin blue rings have is Tetrodotoxin, or TTX; the same thing that is found in Fugu. There was a little vile that was supposed to cure the poison somewhere online. The price tag was $500 for I believe only one treatment. To my knowledge, research has not been done to find out whether or not a blue ring is as poisonous when it is in captivity, and it is believed that captive specimens do not carry a sufficient amount of TTX to kill a human. You still need to be extremely careful though and don't experiment! I don't think I believe it either. Seems like a troll to me... If you really did get bit I wish you the best on a recovery.

02/16/2008, 10:24 AM	#10
andygb54303 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Green Bay, WI Posts: 396	no response he must have died, a moment of silence please. i dont beleive it

02/16/2008, 05:53 PM	#11
MonkeyKeeper911 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 38	who gets bit then jumps online and makes a post saying ok im going to the hospital now.

02/17/2008, 06:26 PM	#12
Gonodactylus Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Berkeley, CA, USA Posts: 5,024	I assume this was a troll and that no harm was done. However, it did point out to me how much misinformation there is about blue-rings. First, it is correct that the active toxin in Hapalochlaena species that have been studied to date is TTX. However, that includes only H. fasciata, H. maculosa and H. lunulata. There are probably another half dozen or so species out their that have not been described or studied. The assumption is that they have TTX. How much is open to speculation. Second, there are absolutely no data to my knowledge that report a loss of toxicity in any blue-ring when it is kept in the aquarium. There have been suggestions that this happens with puffers, but it has not been reported in blue-rings. It is a topic that we are working on, but the the data are not yet in. Therefore, one should assume that any blue-ring contains a lethal dose of TTX. Third, death from a blue-ring envenomation is due to the cessation of breathing. Ventilation is sometimes called for, but one would want to leave the heart along unless a health professional detects a problem. Fourth, there is no currently approved anti-venom. Fifth, if you plan on keeping a blue-ring, you should do what we do - notify local emergency responders and ER's that you have such an animal and that it possesses TTX. That way, if you are transported to an emergency facility, the medics will know what they are dealing with. In fact, every blue-ring tank in our lab has a warning label describing what it contains and how to deal with an emergency . Roy

02/18/2008, 01:14 AM	#14
Gonodactylus Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Berkeley, CA, USA Posts: 5,024	The venom delivery system is passive. The salivary ducts empty near the beak, so the TTX basically dribbles into the wound. This means that circumstances of the bite will vary. Also, there is some debate on whether TTX will penetrate the skin if there is not a bite. Roy

02/18/2008, 11:22 AM	#15
Thales Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: bay area Posts: 3,808	Thanks for the clarifications Roy. __________________ The reefer formally known as Lefty Ink is the way; the way is ink. Current Tank Info: 150 mixed reef with a 180 remote sump • 250 gallon fish breeding system • 200 gallon cephalopod breeding system • 212,000 gallon reef tank at work

03/04/2008, 04:52 PM	#16
Twisted Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Redding, CA Posts: 1,221	Glad to see such and expert on the forums with such a dangerous species available to the public. You would not beleive how many people I have had come into the store that saw one online and wants me to order them one. I usually refuse, unless they can give me some specifics on keeping them, then I know they atleast researched them.

03/04/2008, 05:18 PM	#17
Plankt0s Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Formerly Krypton Posts: 823	why don't you just not ever order one for anyone... The only people that should have animals like this are the people that are studying them professionally. If we the hobbyist are not more responsible than to own such a deadly animal than there eventually will be some type of control placed on this and other animals limiting what we will be able to keep. __________________ Doing my part by building 6-7 new inland reefs a month (and growing).

03/04/2008, 05:21 PM	#18
Twisted Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Redding, CA Posts: 1,221	If I don't order them for anyone, am I not already limiting what you may keep?

03/04/2008, 06:59 PM	#19
Thales Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: bay area Posts: 3,808	__________________ The reefer formally known as Lefty Ink is the way; the way is ink. Current Tank Info: 150 mixed reef with a 180 remote sump • 250 gallon fish breeding system • 200 gallon cephalopod breeding system • 212,000 gallon reef tank at work

03/04/2008, 07:20 PM	#20
Twisted Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Redding, CA Posts: 1,221	How are you Rich? Didn't see you at the MARS swap last weekend. I am thinking about doing a Cephlapod soon, so might ask you your opinion on a couple things once the tank is up and running to see what you think, and suggest, if you don't mind. That won't be for a good 6 months though.

03/04/2008, 07:30 PM	#21
Thales Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: bay area Posts: 3,808	Im super, thanks for asking. I couldn't make it to the swap - way too much going on. I heard it was good though. Do you think you'll make it to the BAR regional swap in August? Ask away when you are ready, but I think you'll want one of these: __________________ The reefer formally known as Lefty Ink is the way; the way is ink. Current Tank Info: 150 mixed reef with a 180 remote sump • 250 gallon fish breeding system • 200 gallon cephalopod breeding system • 212,000 gallon reef tank at work

03/04/2008, 07:36 PM	#22
Twisted Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Redding, CA Posts: 1,221	Whats max size on him, are those ones reef safe by chance? He would look great in my 55 gallon reef, but my anemone would eat him. Bar swap should be a go for me, my baby is due in April, so hopefully the wife will be willing to let me go. Mars we had like 30 people show up between the Redding club and the Chico club, so hopefully we can get close to that again for BAR, a bit more of a drive though.

03/04/2008, 07:42 PM	#23
Freed It's what it's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: 41° 2' 45" N 85° 8' 43" W Posts: 7,579	If you're stupid enough to have a blue ring then the consequences should come as no surprise to you when you get bit. That's just too funny __________________ Freed Current Tank Info: 180gal(1120 watts of MH/VHO light), 60gal "sump", Deltec 601 calcium reactor, Euro Reef CS8-3+ skimmer, 20 gallon QT

03/04/2008, 08:00 PM	#24
trae DR Octopod Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Honolulu Posts: 380	[QUOTE]Originally posted by Phyxius [B]I dont think I would be posting here as first thought either. I knew these were bad if bitten but a quick search brought up this: The bite of the blue-ringed octopus may be painless but it is definitely deadly. Its venom contains some maculotoxin which is more violent than any animals found on land. This poison is 10,000 times more potent that cyanide. Upon being bitten, the victim's nerve conduction is stopped and paralysis sets in after a few minutes. Paralysis is then followed by death. Some symptoms are as follows: ** Loss of all other senses***** Common senses? Now i see why he waited to die Bwaaa!! __________________ For a fish today, i will gladly pay you Tuesday. What tha Frag! Current Tank Info: 240gal mixed reef build in the works

03/13/2008, 04:27 PM	#25
FishyMel Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 1,401	I think this guy was pulling our legs, I seriously doubt he came and posted this and then went to the hospital. Then he never posted again... Anyway fro whay I've heard only 3 have died from a bluering in history and their beak is usually to small to penetrate human skin. Correct me if I'm wrong.