Still searching for why fish are dying

JDT1234 · 02/17/2018, 06:44 AM

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2662661

Above is an older post I started that has lost interest but I want to throw something out there. I am still loosing fish. Have done a total water transfusion over the last week. Salt mix tested meets all requirements with shining colors. I use Red Sea Pro.

My tank is a 110 gallon with the following corals:

2 hammers moderate size I would say
1 Bubble
1 Candy Cane
2 SPS given to me and I don't know the names. Can attach pics if need be
6 colonies of zoo's

Not much for a tank that size but I am dosing 100ml a day each in 2 part. My KH still stays relatively low in spite of that dosage. I am using BRS 2-part system.

Reading other posts here I am thinking what I am dosing is way out of line for what others seem to be doing.

I am now starting to get GHA and my phosphate test say zero but that is more than Likely due to the algae consuming the phosphate.

My question is can something like that be going on with my 2-part and in fact I am overdosing, getting false readings and killing the new fish additions?

CA 400
AK 7.8
MG 1380

Red Sea kits.

AK will fluctuate from 7-9. CA and MG stay pretty stable.

rvareef · 02/17/2018, 07:12 AM

post a tank picture!

Uncle99 · 02/17/2018, 07:39 AM

What exactly are you dosing 110ml per day?

You have only a few corals they would not be consuming much.
Regular 10% -15% waters changes should be keeping you close to parameters.
I have a 70g, over 50 corals including a few SPS and two clans and the only thing I dose is 5 ml iodide.

If your corals are fine but your fish are dying it may be extremely low oxygen, overdosing, or disease.

JDT1234 · 02/18/2018, 05:08 AM

[QUOTE=rvareef;25365452]post a tank picture![/https://www.dropbox.com/s/o4lur12ok5uz7mg/File%20Dec%2028%2C%204%2031%2059%20PM.mov?dl=0

JDT1234 · 02/18/2018, 05:20 AM

[QUOTE=JDT1234;25366291]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvareef

post a tank picture![/https://www.dropbox.com/s/o4lur12ok5uz7mg/File%20Dec%2028%2C%204%2031%2059%20PM.mov?dl=0

Here is a better link to a movie...https://www.dropbox.com/s/o4lur12ok5...%20PM.mov?dl=0

Picture..../Users/jeffthompson/Pictures/Photos Library.photoslibrary/resources/proxies/derivatives/20/00/2046/UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_2046.jpg

JDT1234 · 02/18/2018, 05:21 AM

Movie worked....pic didn't.

I can look into getting a pic on here if the movie isn't sufficient.

JDT1234 · 02/18/2018, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle99

What exactly are you dosing 110ml per day?

You have only a few corals they would not be consuming much.
Regular 10% -15% waters changes should be keeping you close to parameters.
I have a 70g, over 50 corals including a few SPS and two clans and the only thing I dose is 5 ml iodide.

If your corals are fine but your fish are dying it may be extremely low oxygen, overdosing, or disease.

Exactly what is bothering me. I feel I am way to high for what is in my tank. Yet my test kits (Red Sea) tell me I need even more to raise my KH in particular.

Dosing 100ml of ca and 100ml KH daily.

Even with a total water transfusion over the last week my tests tell me to add more KH.

Overdosing I suspect may be a real possibility but how do I get to where I need to be when my kits are telling me to add more.

Low oxygen....maybe, I don't know. I do know the surface has good motion with my wave maker pointed to the surface, my corals all have good movement so I'm getting a solid flow through the tank.

Fish disease seems unlikely since all fish that died came from a variety of fish stores and all die within 1-4 weeks of introduction.

Keep in mind my previous post mentioned I still had four fish that have been in the tank for 6 months to a 1 1/2 years and do not seem to be affected by what is going on in the tank. Only new comers die.

JDT1234 · 02/18/2018, 05:41 AM

One thing comes to mind as I was writing the last reply.

The Red Sea instructions for the KH test says to throw out any unused solution left in the syringe......I have not been. Never understood why I would need to since it was never mixed with anything so I put it back in the bottle.

Is there a reason (I obviously am not seeing) you need to dispose of the used portion in the syringe?

Also, I dose in this order...MG (if needed) KH, CA as the instructions say.

The next suggestion may be my kits are bad. I thought of that. But since the tests got me up to the dosing level I am at in both the CA and KH it is hard to suspect both tests from the same kit are bad.

Uncle99 · 02/18/2018, 07:07 AM

The order of dosing is correct, dosing 2 part is for corals not fish, but I assume maybe if these are way out, the fish might not be happy.

To get the right read on calcium and alkanity ,You must bring magnisum to 1250-1350 first. This is real important because if your magnisum is off, you can dose forever and your calcium and Alk won't appear to increase. Calcium should be about 420 ppm and Alk should be 8-12 dkh, 10 is perfect.

Do you use Red Sea for your mag test? Yes, always follow manufactures instructions.

As a reference, I 2 part dose my tank at 70g about twice a week, 10 ml, and I gave 50 corals many LPS, clams, SPS, which are big users of calcium and Alk.
I would just stop the dosing right now and get a second opinion on the tests, either LFS or new kits...

JDT1234 · 02/18/2018, 07:09 AM

Figured out how to post pictures I think...

You should see a pic of the tank.

Uncle99 · 02/18/2018, 07:16 AM

Yup I see that.
I see absolutely no reason to 2 part dose this tank at all, regular water changes will keep your parameters in check.

Stop dosing, followed by 4, 20% water changes.......

JDT1234 · 02/18/2018, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle99

The order of dodging is correct.
You must bring magnisum to 1250-1350 first. This is real important because if your magnisum is off, you can dose forever and your calcium and Alk won't appear to increase.
Do you use Red Sea for your mag test? Yes, always follow manufactures instructions.
As a reference, I 2 part dose my tank at 70g about twice a week, 10 ml, and I gave 50 corals many LPS, clams, SPS, which are big users of calcium and Alk.
I would just stop the dosing right now and get a second opinion on the tests, either LFS or new kits...

Red Sea for mg test yes. Right now it reads 1380. A little high. But I will bring it down to the lower end and start working from there.

So I should be throwing out the unused portion of the KH solution from the syringe after each test? I just dont understand the reasoning for that. Seems like a waste but I hope there is a reason Red Sea says this rather than just a way to increase sales by having us throw out good solution.

Your example is comparable to what I have been reading here on the forum. I know from researching the threads something is way off with my setup but can't figure it out.

I'll stop into my LFS this week with water samples and see if his tests matches mine.

Thank you Uncle.

JDT1234 · 02/18/2018, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle99

Yup I see that.
I see absolutely no reason to 2 part dose this tank at all, regular water changes will keep your parameters in check.

Stop dosing, followed by 4, 20% water changes.......

Thanks again. Interesting. I thought parameters, numbers and such were all part of the game.

I have no problem not dosing and doing more water changes.

Smokey Stover · 02/18/2018, 07:23 AM

I think I remember your last thread mentioning salinity check, Do you have a calibrated refractor ?

rvareef · 02/18/2018, 08:46 AM

skip dosing and stick to water changes

newbie2014 · 02/18/2018, 09:34 AM

Out of range salinity will result in out of range trace elements. And if it’s really out of wack, corals and inverts will be affected first, not fish.

My water SG was 1.036-1.041 for about six months due to a faulty “lab grade” refractometer. All my fish were fine, but the corals and CUC melted within a week.

You said only new fish died. And you said disease is not a factor. So maybe, agression......

Dmorty217 · 02/18/2018, 09:47 AM

If only new Fish are dying I don’t see how it’s not disease? It’s disease or you need to get fish from another source.

JDT1234 · 02/19/2018, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smokey Stover

I think I remember your last thread mentioning salinity check, Do you have a calibrated refractor ?

Yes. Salinity is good.

JDT1234 · 02/19/2018, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newbie2014

Out of range salinity will result in out of range trace elements. And if it’s really out of wack, corals and inverts will be affected first, not fish.

My water SG was 1.036-1.041 for about six months due to a faulty “lab grade” refractometer. All my fish were fine, but the corals and CUC melted within a week.

You said only new fish died. And you said disease is not a factor. So maybe, agression......

It was suggested in my last thread the Domino Damsels may have been the culprit. Tore the tank down and removed them. Put in six Chromis and all but one is left. The remaining tang and clown leave the Chromis alone so I think we can rule out aggression at this time.

JDT1234 · 02/19/2018, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmorty217

If only new Fish are dying I don’t see how it’s not disease? It’s disease or you need to get fish from another source.

I said not disease due to the fact the new fish that died did come from various sources.

I certainly am open to the idea of you feel my thinking is wrong.

Let's say it is a disease that have allowed four fish (before I removed the damsels) to avoid contracting it. What do I do?

JDT1234 · 02/19/2018, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvareef

skip dosing and stick to water changes

Right now that is going to be the plan.

Uncle99 · 02/19/2018, 05:57 AM

Put in six chromis and one is left.
That would be quite normal.
Can you tell me what fish are left?

sde1500 · 02/19/2018, 07:10 AM

I'd say your old fish did contract it. Just didn't die and are now living with it. Or immune to it. Any particular signs the new fish are showing after death?

Also dosing seems unnecessary for you tank. I'd suggest getting another test kit to confirm your numbers. And follow the directions.

anthonys51 · 02/19/2018, 08:28 AM

Phosphates wouldn’t affect fish They could be 2.00 ml and Fish wouldn’t care. Gha growing crazy also wouldn’t affect fish. What are your Nitrates, too high could affect fish especially new ones since they aren’t used to them being so high while your fish might of gotten used to them. Also are you dripping new fish or just adding them into tank. New Fish dying could be disease you can’t simple rule it out since old Fish didn’t die. New Fish are under a lot more stress then old Fish. Different water parameters( ph, alk, nitrates, salinity). Coupled with stress from netting and then add the fact the new guy wants to kick its but all of this could play a factor in why the new guys die and not the old

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Uncle99 · 02/19/2018, 09:34 AM

The fish that don't die (the yellow tang, the maroon clown, the damsels) are all quite territorial....is it possible they just don't want anymore tank mates. The maroon can be especially agressive.....when you say die...what does death look like?
Do you see any scrapping, fighting, waggling, head to head mouth biting?
I get the thinking that the issue is not the water at all.....can you tell me the names of all the fish that died...with the exception of the chromis.....six become one in weeks....

02/17/2018, 06:44 AM	#1
JDT1234 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Fort Pierce,FL Posts: 53	Still searching for why fish are dying http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2662661 Above is an older post I started that has lost interest but I want to throw something out there. I am still loosing fish. Have done a total water transfusion over the last week. Salt mix tested meets all requirements with shining colors. I use Red Sea Pro. My tank is a 110 gallon with the following corals: 2 hammers moderate size I would say 1 Bubble 1 Candy Cane 2 SPS given to me and I don't know the names. Can attach pics if need be 6 colonies of zoo's Not much for a tank that size but I am dosing 100ml a day each in 2 part. My KH still stays relatively low in spite of that dosage. I am using BRS 2-part system. Reading other posts here I am thinking what I am dosing is way out of line for what others seem to be doing. I am now starting to get GHA and my phosphate test say zero but that is more than Likely due to the algae consuming the phosphate. My question is can something like that be going on with my 2-part and in fact I am overdosing, getting false readings and killing the new fish additions? CA 400 AK 7.8 MG 1380 Red Sea kits. AK will fluctuate from 7-9. CA and MG stay pretty stable.

02/18/2018, 09:47 AM	#17
Dmorty217 Saltwater Addict Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Vandalia OHIO Posts: 11,624	If only new Fish are dying I don’t see how it’s not disease? It’s disease or you need to get fish from another source. __________________ Fish are not disposable commodities, but a worthwhile investment that can be maintained and enjoyed for many years, providing one is willing to take the time to understand their requirements and needs Current Tank Info: 625g, 220g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 3 MP60s, MP40. Several QTs

02/19/2018, 07:10 AM	#23
sde1500 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Glocester, RI Posts: 3,336	I'd say your old fish did contract it. Just didn't die and are now living with it. Or immune to it. Any particular signs the new fish are showing after death? Also dosing seems unnecessary for you tank. I'd suggest getting another test kit to confirm your numbers. And follow the directions. __________________ My build thread: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2548422 Current Tank Info: 65 gallon mixed reef, Eshopps sump and HOB overflow, RO-110int skimmer, Reefbreeder 32" photons V1.

02/17/2018, 07:12 AM	#2
rvareef In Memoriam Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 664	post a tank picture!

02/17/2018, 07:39 AM	#3
Uncle99 Crab Free Zone Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,906	What exactly are you dosing 110ml per day? You have only a few corals they would not be consuming much. Regular 10% -15% waters changes should be keeping you close to parameters. I have a 70g, over 50 corals including a few SPS and two clans and the only thing I dose is 5 ml iodide. If your corals are fine but your fish are dying it may be extremely low oxygen, overdosing, or disease.

02/18/2018, 05:08 AM	#4
JDT1234 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Fort Pierce,FL Posts: 53	[QUOTE=rvareef;25365452]post a tank picture![/https://www.dropbox.com/s/o4lur12ok5uz7mg/File%20Dec%2028%2C%204%2031%2059%20PM.mov?dl=0

02/18/2018, 05:21 AM	#6
JDT1234 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Fort Pierce,FL Posts: 53	Movie worked....pic didn't. I can look into getting a pic on here if the movie isn't sufficient.

02/18/2018, 05:41 AM	#8
JDT1234 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Fort Pierce,FL Posts: 53	One thing comes to mind as I was writing the last reply. The Red Sea instructions for the KH test says to throw out any unused solution left in the syringe......I have not been. Never understood why I would need to since it was never mixed with anything so I put it back in the bottle. Is there a reason (I obviously am not seeing) you need to dispose of the used portion in the syringe? Also, I dose in this order...MG (if needed) KH, CA as the instructions say. The next suggestion may be my kits are bad. I thought of that. But since the tests got me up to the dosing level I am at in both the CA and KH it is hard to suspect both tests from the same kit are bad.

02/18/2018, 07:07 AM	#9
Uncle99 Crab Free Zone Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,906	The order of dosing is correct, dosing 2 part is for corals not fish, but I assume maybe if these are way out, the fish might not be happy. To get the right read on calcium and alkanity ,You must bring magnisum to 1250-1350 first. This is real important because if your magnisum is off, you can dose forever and your calcium and Alk won't appear to increase. Calcium should be about 420 ppm and Alk should be 8-12 dkh, 10 is perfect. Do you use Red Sea for your mag test? Yes, always follow manufactures instructions. As a reference, I 2 part dose my tank at 70g about twice a week, 10 ml, and I gave 50 corals many LPS, clams, SPS, which are big users of calcium and Alk. I would just stop the dosing right now and get a second opinion on the tests, either LFS or new kits...

02/18/2018, 07:16 AM	#11
Uncle99 Crab Free Zone Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,906	Yup I see that. I see absolutely no reason to 2 part dose this tank at all, regular water changes will keep your parameters in check. Stop dosing, followed by 4, 20% water changes.......

02/18/2018, 07:23 AM	#14
Smokey Stover Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Largo, Florida Posts: 361	I think I remember your last thread mentioning salinity check, Do you have a calibrated refractor ?

02/18/2018, 08:46 AM	#15
rvareef In Memoriam Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 664	skip dosing and stick to water changes

02/18/2018, 09:34 AM	#16
newbie2014 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 235	Out of range salinity will result in out of range trace elements. And if it’s really out of wack, corals and inverts will be affected first, not fish. My water SG was 1.036-1.041 for about six months due to a faulty “lab grade” refractometer. All my fish were fine, but the corals and CUC melted within a week. You said only new fish died. And you said disease is not a factor. So maybe, agression......

02/19/2018, 05:57 AM	#22
Uncle99 Crab Free Zone Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,906	Put in six chromis and one is left. That would be quite normal. Can you tell me what fish are left?

02/19/2018, 08:28 AM	#24
anthonys51 Registered Member. Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kings Park, NY Posts: 2,789	Phosphates wouldn’t affect fish They could be 2.00 ml and Fish wouldn’t care. Gha growing crazy also wouldn’t affect fish. What are your Nitrates, too high could affect fish especially new ones since they aren’t used to them being so high while your fish might of gotten used to them. Also are you dripping new fish or just adding them into tank. New Fish dying could be disease you can’t simple rule it out since old Fish didn’t die. New Fish are under a lot more stress then old Fish. Different water parameters( ph, alk, nitrates, salinity). Coupled with stress from netting and then add the fact the new guy wants to kick its but all of this could play a factor in why the new guys die and not the old Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

02/19/2018, 09:34 AM	#25
Uncle99 Crab Free Zone Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,906	The fish that don't die (the yellow tang, the maroon clown, the damsels) are all quite territorial....is it possible they just don't want anymore tank mates. The maroon can be especially agressive.....when you say die...what does death look like? Do you see any scrapping, fighting, waggling, head to head mouth biting? I get the thinking that the issue is not the water at all.....can you tell me the names of all the fish that died...with the exception of the chromis.....six become one in weeks....