2008 M.A.R.S. Frag Swap March 1st

[pbetito]

Marine Aquarists Roundtable of Sacramento would like to cordially invite any members of a reef club to our 2008 Frag Swap. We are planning on holding the frag swap in West Sacramento, pending confirmation of a location, March 1st
2008.

The swap will be 9 dollars prepaid (via paypal) and 12 dollars (cash) at the door per adult. Included in the price will be a delicious lunch and all you can drink water, juice, and soda. We wholeheartedly invite you to bring children and they may eat free of charge. Spouses are welcome with their own paid admission and are welcomed to participate in the swap (or pick for you) as long as they meet the requirements (bring 3 frags).

The frag swap will require three frags per person looking to participate. The picking order that one is selected for will be at random. The order of selection will be done in forward/reverse order...12345-54321 ect.. There is no buy in but we as a club would greatly recommend stopping by one of our LFS as they can set you up for 3 frags for 30 dollars at the most

As usual, there will be a rare/exceptional category for what are called bonus picks. The way this works is that if you bring 2 approved corals that are rare or exceptional you will get an extra first round pick. This pick will be made before any of the picking groups gets their chance to select a coral. Therefore the better you bring the more you get This is also a way for the swap to get more quality corals put out on the table.

There will be a second round for bonus picks put at the beginning of the third round as well.

For those who don't have a lot of rare frags you can earn bonus picks by bringing a large quantity of frags instead.

For every 2 rare/10 normal frags you bring you will get a bonus pick. 2 rare/10 normal gets you a first round pick and 4 rare/20 normal gets you a third round bonus selection.

Finally 6 rare/30 normal gets you a bonus 2nd round pick as well. We would like to encourage people not to bring more than 10 corals of the same type. We ask that so that there are not people picking in all of the bonus rounds who donated 30 frags of brown zoo's. If you want to bring more than 10 of something of quality then please just get prior permission.

All corals should be put into proper containers,( no ziplock bags) and should be identified by name of the coral and the name of the donor.

Petes97, Mr. Mike B, and myself will be judging rare/ exceptional pieces and we will attempt to be fairly liberal in our choosing. This is not a perfect science but we will certainly do our best and in the case we are unsure we will ask the proper authorities. Bring on the eye candy

There will be a wonderful raffle and an amazing 60 gallon cube with tank, stand, canopy, lighting, and pumps for the taking.

If anyone has any further questions, ideas, or reccomendations please feel free to ask them as your input is greatly appreciated. The BOD of M.A.R.S. look forward to seeing you there and having a wonderful day among fellow enthusiasts.

[bored4long]

woohoo! This will be my first time attending a frag swap. I love the idea of not having a buy-in to encourage purchases at an LFS. Great Idea! I hope it doesn't discourage any newbies from getting in on this great swap. I'll be one of those newbs bringing in frags from an LFS.

Newbie question #1: Do I get a single pick for each frag I bring or are all non-bonus picks just divided up amongst all participants equally regardless of how many frags you bring?

Newbie question #2: Please define what qualifies as a 'frag' for this swap. Can I bring 10 single brown zoas each attached to their own rubble to get a bonus round pick?

Newbie question #3: How many polyps of Aptasia qualify as a single frag?

[pbetito]

Originally posted by bored4long
woohoo! This will be my first time attending a frag swap. I love the idea of not having a buy-in to encourage purchases at an LFS. Great Idea! I hope it doesn't discourage any newbies from getting in on this great swap. I'll be one of those newbs bringing in frags from an LFS.

Newbie question #1: Do I get a single pick for each frag I bring or are all non-bonus picks just divided up amongst all participants equally regardless of how many frags you bring?

Newbie question #2: Please define what qualifies as a 'frag' for this swap. Can I bring 10 single brown zoas each attached to their own rubble to get a bonus round pick?

There is usually a buy in for those newbies who don't have frags so I certainly hope that will not keep them from coming. We would just rather have the money go to local buisness than to MARS

Question #1- You get as many picks as there are corals on the table. Many folks are very generous and I have never been to a swap where you didn't get at least 2 corals for each one you brought.

Question #2: A frag of SPS should generally be a minimum of an inch. Zoo's that are common should be around 10 polyps. Other corals such as acans, blasto's and euphillya's 1-2 heads would be minimum with 2-3 heads being appreciated. Any other coral questions can be asked right here

[funman1]

Alright I'll get it rolling
Will my frags of "Steve Elias" be counted as rare?
And how bout my LE GSP that everyone seems to crave when they come over?
And how bout my duncans?

[pbetito]

Originally posted by funman1
Alright I'll get it rolling
Will my frags of "Steve Elias" be counted as rare?
And how bout my LE GSP that everyone seems to crave when they come over?
And how bout my duncans?

We are oking corals by a 2/3 vote. I will count duncans as they are very nice corals and are still expensive. I hesitate to count gsp but if you post a pic it is always possible I am going to rule out Cali tort and Steve Elias as rare because they have just gottten SO common as of late. They are still very nice however.

[funman1]

So then if the other two vote for Steve Elias then they are in?


Here's the pic of the GSP, people on the TT loved it.. Brian P even just got some last week cause he loved it so much

[MrMikeB]

In judging, please be aware that my criteria for being an exceptional coral is not 'rareness' in the common use of the term. I always felt something that was 'rare' was purely an indication of market dynamics, and not necessarily an accurate portrayal of a corals' uniqueness or beauty. In my judging, I will weigh the unique colors and characteristics of each piece for something really exceptional. I feel this will help those unusual GSP, zoas, leathers, etc. that typically get a bad rap because they are not of the SPS variety or cost $100/frag come out of the woodwork.

So bring out the eye candy and post your shots for all to see! If your xenia has morphed into something strange, I want to see that too.

I will take the advice of the club members and forum posters as well. So if you see a picture of something you like, show your support! I want to see as many people engaged in this as possible. Given the judging is a necessary evil, and I clearly am in no position to be the definitive source on all exceptional coral, think of this as your applause meter. The 'louder' the applause for a particular piece, the more I am apt to be persuaded to cast my vote in that direction.

Oh, and I do take bribes too. (that was a joke).

[KMP]

Sounds great. When will the frag picking begin (daughter has ballet until noon)?

Also for consideration, I would like to recommend that only those that were a member as of 12/27/07 be eligible to partake.

[pbetito]

Originally posted by KMP
Sounds great. When will the frag picking begin (daughter has ballet until noon)?

Also for consideration, I would like to recommend that only those that were a member as of 12/27/07 be eligible to partake.

We will start pickin' at 12:30 but if you send your frags ahead with another member ...say Kevin I would gladly try and influence the powers that be to let him pick for you in the 1st round as you hurried to join us. I have decided to make it a rule that you must have joined any reef club by 2/09/08 and not a day later to partake in the swap

[sagitariuscbc]

We plan on being there 3 adults and 2 kids!-) we are really looking forward to it!-) what's on the menu?

!-)

[mpoletti]

How solid is the date? Can we move it a week later so BAR can join in?

[pbetito]

Originally posted by sagitariuscbc
We plan on being there 3 adults and 2 kids!-) we are really looking forward to it!-) what's on the menu?

!-)

Togo's, subway ect... There will also be chips and drinks

[KMP]

thanks paul. kevin better be going

[pbetito]

Originally posted by Marko9
How solid is the date? Can we move it a week later so BAR can join in?

It is possible but I and others were afraid that it would cause issues being the weekend after Valentines day... Please start a post on another thread Mark and see how all of the members feel. If they are for it we will look into the date change

[kevin95695]

We should be there and KMP I will set you up if it works out. Just call me and tell me what you are looking for. YAY! Frag swap! Frag swap! Frag swap!

Make good! Make good! Make good!

[Justin74]

How come no vets are judges? Im finding it hard to bring up the topic without offending you good guys,(or makig me sound like an @zz in the process )but with all due respect theres not much experience with coral identification nor the years to be able to deem what is truly rare and what is "hype".

This could easily be skewed due to my own ignorance of you 3 and not knowing you that well or the experiences as a collective. Maybe Ive been spoiled and got to use to Karl being the definitive resource.

I wouldve felt compelled to say something, but moreso as soon as I saw duncans brought up For 25$ a head and as prolific as GSP once in an established system cant but help differ with that opinion.

Now if it were for collectable/exotic/ and rare fish, Paul's your man!

Sorry if Ive stepped on your toes guys, just thought id put the concern out there.

-Justin

[Reefugee]

No offense to Kenny, it's a dangerous precedent to let someone pick by proxy. In the past, you always have to be there to pick. If we move the frag swap to Feb 16th (which I can't make), can I send some frags with a buddy and have him pick all the rounds for me?

It has always been "Must be present to pick." Why change it?

Originally posted by pbetito
I would gladly try and influence the powers that be to let him pick for you in the 1st round as you hurried to join us. I have decided to make it a rule that you must have joined any reef club by 2/09/08 and not a day later to partake in the swap

[KMP]

No offense Minh; if the rules are you have to be present to win then it should stay that way. Once you start making exceptions/changes the integrity comes in question.

If I miss Round 1, can I pick in Round 2?

Big picture, I just want to partake in more MARS activities. Being able to pick in Round 1 is not a determining factor for me attending this event.

[Reefugee]

Kenny - In the past, if you miss Round 1, you can pick in round 2. You may still want to send your corals with Kevin to make your check in faster.

[pbetito]

Originally posted by Reefugee
No offense to Kenny, it's a dangerous precedent to let someone pick by proxy. In the past, you always have to be there to pick. If we move the frag swap to Feb 16th (which I can't make), can I send some frags with a buddy and have him pick all the rounds for me?

It has always been "Must be present to pick." Why change it?

I was just trying to be easy going for a reefer who sounded like he was going to be a few minutes late. Since we are a group of friends and it was literally going to come down to a few minutes I just thought that there was something to be said about trying to help a guy out. Comparing it to missing the whole swap hardly seems comparable. When I found out I might be able to make the swap at Pam's but would be a tad late she offered to do the same for me. Its just a frag swap, not a congressional hearing

Justin, I have good news for you. I have Karl's number as does Mike, and Pete and if needed I would not hesitate to use it! I feel I also have a pretty good idea of what is what We intentionally set out to make the rare category a bit broader so that there would be more quality overall even if there was a little less elite stuff. I think the GSP were denied. I just think if someone was to go home with some duncans it would be a pretty cool score for them. There are always side trades too

[P.Kelly]

Originally posted by Justin74
I wouldve felt compelled to say something, but moreso as soon as I saw duncans brought up For 25$ a head and as prolific as GSP once in an established system cant but help differ with that opinion.

Justin, I can understand where you are coming from. I respect your position, but the three of us have a very specific goal for this frag swap. We want to expand the group of individuals who contribute to and benefit from the "rare" category. I believe that the term Paul and Mike and I agreed on was extra-ordinary, meaning more than ordinary. This will probably give you a better understanding of what we're shooting for here. We're looking to open up the category to things that aren't just super rare SPS.

With a 2 head minimum on Duncan, by your estimate, which I think is a fair going price, that makes a duncan frag a $50 piece. I think this falls easily into the extra-ordinary category.

If the ultimate effect of broadening the special category mean that there are less LE SPS but more people can go hoe with something special, because more people are able to contribute to the category, then I think we have done our job as a club trying to foster the hobby to masses.

Perhaps the next frag swap, like the last one will have a more stringent rare category.

[MrMikeB]

Originally posted by Justin74
How come no vets are judges? Im finding it hard to bring up the topic without offending you good guys,(or makig me sound like an @zz in the process )but with all due respect theres not much experience with coral identification nor the years to be able to deem what is truly rare and what is "hype".

-Justin

It is a good question Justin. Our goal for this swap is to bring out a lot of good stuff and people. To reach the most people and encourage folks to bring out their super nice pieces (even though they are not on this months' $100/frag list), we felt broadening the category and criteria would help achieve this. I think there are a lot of nice an exceptional pieces out there from the tank pictures we have seen that might not have LE attached to its name, but I still want to see them on the tables.

I do not pretend to be an expert in all things reef, hell I would argue the opposite might be true. What I am an expert on, is realizing who the experts are, and how to elicit their support. Collectively this club has hundreds of years of experience - it would be foolish to ignore this. This is a 'club', and a long overdue club sponsored frag swap, so as a club we will put this together and make it great. Wanna help? Great! Post your pics! Post your comments on other peoples pics! Tell your friends! Tell their friends!

[P.Kelly]

Oh, and for the record, a frag of the GSP is out. Sorry Steve

[mpoletti]

Originally posted by petes97
I respect your position, but the three of us have a very specific goal for this frag swap.

Why don't the three of you just get rid of the rare category and/or bonus tickets if it is just going to be nice stuff. IMO,The whole rare thing should be for the raffle and side trades because ones mans rare (gsp) is another mans aptaisia. Keep it simple and you will limit your headaches.

[P.Kelly]

Originally posted by Marko9
Why don't the three of you just get rid of the rare category and/or bonus tickets if it is just going to be nice stuff... Keep it simple and you will limit your headaches.

We appreciate your suggestion, but we are committed to opening up the special category to more people and still encouraging people to bring extras by giving bonus picks for their generosity.

We can always try another format in the future, like we are doing now.