DIY LEDs - The write-up - Page 13

Imzadi · 03/14/2009, 05:20 PM

I would never hold you accountable for any suggestion given. It is DIY after all. I suppose if I got 12, and it wasn't enough, I could add a third bank...

The little doodad itself gets hot, but how does it compare to MH for projected heat. Can you feel wamth in the beam itself?

EBOLII · 03/14/2009, 05:39 PM

ackerman great idea!

EBOLII · 03/14/2009, 05:39 PM

..double post..sorry..

Soundwave · 03/14/2009, 07:45 PM

The PAR meter is owned by my local club. I don't know if I can get ahold of it but I will for sure have it for readings WITH optics.

thelastlaugh9 · 03/14/2009, 07:45 PM

Still not sure about wattage Soundwave or if it's not important.. They are cheap enough but I'm curious of the difference. I can use exactly what you have and have a cushion but I'm curious about the wattage.. Should I have a 40w supply or a 150w supply and if you don't mind answering.. Why?

Soundwave · 03/14/2009, 07:46 PM

Projected heat is pretty much nil. There is a little warmth if you put the back of your hand an inch away from the LEDs but that's it.

Soundwave · 03/14/2009, 07:51 PM

You can get away with a lower wattage supply just fine. If you use a higher power power supply then it will only dish out what is needed.

Don't look at wattage as much as voltage and amperage. You could have a 5V 30a power supply that will put out 150 watts but can only run 1 LED per string due to voltage constraints. This would require one buckpuck per LED. Not very cost-friendly. Take a 24V 6.5a power supply and get 156 watts. Thus allowing you to run 6 LEDs per string with one buckpuck per 6 LEDs.

See the difference?

Soundwave · 03/14/2009, 07:59 PM

Let me explain a little further...

For example, say you want to use 12 LEDs. That would require at least a 24V 2a power supply when you run them at 1000mA. Given the inefficiencies of the buckpucks and whatnot, you'll only be using something like 1.8 amps on the 12 LEDs. You would need two 1000mA buckpucks for this.

If you wanted to run 24, up the amperage to at least 4 amps.

I found out the hard way that if you use a 24V 3a power supply to run 24 LEDs at 1000mA, you will kill the power supply because the LEDs are trying to run at 1000mA and pull too much power for the supply to handle.

In my case, since I have 6.5a power supplies, I could easily add 4 more buckpucks and run another two strings of white and two more blues.

I hope this clears that up.

thelastlaugh9 · 03/14/2009, 08:01 PM

I do see that but what if I ran a 24v 6.5 at 50 watts.. Would that be the same? Basically, I've seen the power supplys that run with low wattage yet the same amps and voltage.. I guess the reason I ask is because I've read the entire thread but never seen wattage mentioned or what difference 1000w is compared to 10w as far as LEDS are operated.... 24v 6.5 at 1w VS 24v 6.5a at 150w

Soundwave · 03/14/2009, 08:08 PM

I'm not sure we are understanding each other.

If you have a 24V 1a power supply, the maximum wattage it can put out is 24 watts.

24v 4a: 96 watts

24v 6.5a: 156 watts

volts x amps = watts

Say you run 6 LEDs and one bucpuck at 1000mA. You are still only using around 22 watts or something like that. It doesn't matter how big your power supply is as long as it's not too small.

Make sense yet?

thelastlaugh9 · 03/14/2009, 08:19 PM

Grrr, beers and forgetting ohms law.. bigger is better but not always needed... Just wanted to make sure the higher wattage supply wouldn't hurt or cause a issue in the long run

Soundwave · 03/14/2009, 08:22 PM

Won't hurt a thing.

thelastlaugh9 · 03/14/2009, 08:26 PM

Thanks man.. Cheers, I know you got two beers a way back so down they go.. Saturday rules

eznet2u · 03/14/2009, 08:43 PM

Play with this to get the idea.

thelastlaugh9 · 03/15/2009, 12:46 AM

Why mot do larrger spacing with the extremely powerful yet extremely expensive bulb available. Is it cost prohibitive or just not aplicable? i.e. the MC-E from yadda yadda.. Are there any advantages *other than depth issues) to the expense of this LED ? It's obvious that it will reach quite deaper with high Lumens but WOW the cost is unreal

thelastlaugh9 · 03/15/2009, 12:53 AM

Forgive my spelling.. it's about 3 a.m. my time

Soundwave · 03/15/2009, 01:32 AM

I think you answered your own question. They are too expensive at the moment and it's a pain to drive them. I think each one would need its own buckpuck. Also, the single mc-e, i don't believe, puts out as much as 6 of the xr-e models. All in all, it's just not cost effective for this application.

My opinion, though.

kcress · 03/15/2009, 03:49 AM

You also strive for a uniform wall of light. Having just a few really bright units would give a non-uniform blotchy look.

thelastlaugh9 · 03/15/2009, 08:35 AM

Right on.. But cost aside.. If you have a very deep tank would they be more appropriate (assuming that you use the same amout of LEDs)?

thelastlaugh9 · 03/15/2009, 08:41 AM

Actually, I think I keep answering my own questions and type before I think.. I'm looking into setting up a very large tank and for now MH is probably the way to go until it becomes cost effective to use the more powerful LEDs

Soundwave · 03/15/2009, 09:18 AM

I don't think the mc-e will ever be usable for our needs. Maybe something like a nano cube. I don't mean the actual nano cube product but something like 10 gallons.

stugray · 03/15/2009, 10:01 AM

Just to give everybody an idea of the light spread from these LEDs.

Here is a pic of my night lights.
They are just TWO CREE XRE 3watt driven at only 750mA.

They are about 10" off the water and spaced about 1/3 from each end:

They have no optics other than an acrylic dome

They also have no heatsink other than the star board they came mounted on.

Stu

thelastlaugh9 · 03/15/2009, 11:25 AM

Gorgeous

kcress · 03/15/2009, 01:31 PM

Nothing but the board?!?

Do you have a temp gun?

EBOLII · 03/15/2009, 03:15 PM

Yeah I would look into pc heat sinks or something. I bet that led won't last long

03/14/2009, 05:20 PM	#301
Imzadi Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 1,038	I would never hold you accountable for any suggestion given. It is DIY after all. I suppose if I got 12, and it wasn't enough, I could add a third bank... The little doodad itself gets hot, but how does it compare to MH for projected heat. Can you feel wamth in the beam itself? __________________ If you don't agree with me, that's fine... just go, think about it some more, and come back when you do. Current Tank Info: 120g Freshie, 55g salty with a 2/3 BeanAnimal. BA METHOD - TESTIFY! I am a DIY Disaster, but I am saving money! Damsel FREE since 07/08/09!

03/14/2009, 05:39 PM	#302
EBOLII Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Deep within the uncharted Amazon Posts: 400	ackerman great idea! __________________ I am lost in every-way there is.............literally.............just plain LOST

03/14/2009, 05:39 PM	#303
EBOLII Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Deep within the uncharted Amazon Posts: 400	..double post..sorry.. __________________ I am lost in every-way there is.............literally.............just plain LOST

03/15/2009, 10:01 AM	#322
stugray Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Longmont, Co Posts: 4,566	Just to give everybody an idea of the light spread from these LEDs. Here is a pic of my night lights. They are just TWO CREE XRE 3watt driven at only 750mA. They are about 10" off the water and spaced about 1/3 from each end: They have no optics other than an acrylic dome They also have no heatsink other than the star board they came mounted on. Stu __________________ Some people think that I have Attention Deficit Disorder. They just dont understand that........ Hey! Look a chicken! Well, We KNOW GOD exists, but for US to exist without a GOD is preposterous….Umm wait a minute…. Sounds a bit circular to me… Current Tank Info: 125 Gal. display w/80 gal mud/caulerpa sump. Basement sump w/ LED Grow Light,Gravity fed Reeflo200 skimmer w/ ORCA Recirc, DIY calc reactor & kalk stirrer. Inline plumbed 75 Gal frag/settling tank.

03/15/2009, 03:15 PM	#325
EBOLII Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Deep within the uncharted Amazon Posts: 400	Yeah I would look into pc heat sinks or something. I bet that led won't last long __________________ I am lost in every-way there is.............literally.............just plain LOST

03/14/2009, 07:45 PM	#304
Soundwave Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Maroa, Il Posts: 361	The PAR meter is owned by my local club. I don't know if I can get ahold of it but I will for sure have it for readings WITH optics.

03/14/2009, 07:45 PM	#305
thelastlaugh9 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Vienna, VA Posts: 26	Still not sure about wattage Soundwave or if it's not important.. They are cheap enough but I'm curious of the difference. I can use exactly what you have and have a cushion but I'm curious about the wattage.. Should I have a 40w supply or a 150w supply and if you don't mind answering.. Why?

03/14/2009, 07:46 PM	#306
Soundwave Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Maroa, Il Posts: 361	Projected heat is pretty much nil. There is a little warmth if you put the back of your hand an inch away from the LEDs but that's it.

03/14/2009, 07:51 PM	#307
Soundwave Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Maroa, Il Posts: 361	You can get away with a lower wattage supply just fine. If you use a higher power power supply then it will only dish out what is needed. Don't look at wattage as much as voltage and amperage. You could have a 5V 30a power supply that will put out 150 watts but can only run 1 LED per string due to voltage constraints. This would require one buckpuck per LED. Not very cost-friendly. Take a 24V 6.5a power supply and get 156 watts. Thus allowing you to run 6 LEDs per string with one buckpuck per 6 LEDs. See the difference?

03/14/2009, 07:59 PM	#308
Soundwave Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Maroa, Il Posts: 361	Let me explain a little further... For example, say you want to use 12 LEDs. That would require at least a 24V 2a power supply when you run them at 1000mA. Given the inefficiencies of the buckpucks and whatnot, you'll only be using something like 1.8 amps on the 12 LEDs. You would need two 1000mA buckpucks for this. If you wanted to run 24, up the amperage to at least 4 amps. I found out the hard way that if you use a 24V 3a power supply to run 24 LEDs at 1000mA, you will kill the power supply because the LEDs are trying to run at 1000mA and pull too much power for the supply to handle. In my case, since I have 6.5a power supplies, I could easily add 4 more buckpucks and run another two strings of white and two more blues. I hope this clears that up.

03/14/2009, 08:01 PM	#309
thelastlaugh9 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Vienna, VA Posts: 26	I do see that but what if I ran a 24v 6.5 at 50 watts.. Would that be the same? Basically, I've seen the power supplys that run with low wattage yet the same amps and voltage.. I guess the reason I ask is because I've read the entire thread but never seen wattage mentioned or what difference 1000w is compared to 10w as far as LEDS are operated.... 24v 6.5 at 1w VS 24v 6.5a at 150w

03/14/2009, 08:08 PM	#310
Soundwave Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Maroa, Il Posts: 361	I'm not sure we are understanding each other. If you have a 24V 1a power supply, the maximum wattage it can put out is 24 watts. 24v 4a: 96 watts 24v 6.5a: 156 watts volts x amps = watts Say you run 6 LEDs and one bucpuck at 1000mA. You are still only using around 22 watts or something like that. It doesn't matter how big your power supply is as long as it's not too small. Make sense yet?

03/14/2009, 08:19 PM	#311
thelastlaugh9 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Vienna, VA Posts: 26	Grrr, beers and forgetting ohms law.. bigger is better but not always needed... Just wanted to make sure the higher wattage supply wouldn't hurt or cause a issue in the long run

03/14/2009, 08:22 PM	#312
Soundwave Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Maroa, Il Posts: 361	Won't hurt a thing.

03/14/2009, 08:26 PM	#313
thelastlaugh9 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Vienna, VA Posts: 26	Thanks man.. Cheers, I know you got two beers a way back so down they go.. Saturday rules

03/14/2009, 08:43 PM	#314
eznet2u Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,135	Play with this to get the idea.

03/15/2009, 12:46 AM	#315
thelastlaugh9 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Vienna, VA Posts: 26	Why mot do larrger spacing with the extremely powerful yet extremely expensive bulb available. Is it cost prohibitive or just not aplicable? i.e. the MC-E from yadda yadda.. Are there any advantages *other than depth issues) to the expense of this LED ? It's obvious that it will reach quite deaper with high Lumens but WOW the cost is unreal

03/15/2009, 12:53 AM	#316
thelastlaugh9 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Vienna, VA Posts: 26	Forgive my spelling.. it's about 3 a.m. my time

03/15/2009, 01:32 AM	#317
Soundwave Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Maroa, Il Posts: 361	I think you answered your own question. They are too expensive at the moment and it's a pain to drive them. I think each one would need its own buckpuck. Also, the single mc-e, i don't believe, puts out as much as 6 of the xr-e models. All in all, it's just not cost effective for this application. My opinion, though.

03/15/2009, 03:49 AM	#318
kcress Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Central California Coast. Posts: 5,383	You also strive for a uniform wall of light. Having just a few really bright units would give a non-uniform blotchy look.

03/15/2009, 08:35 AM	#319
thelastlaugh9 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Vienna, VA Posts: 26	Right on.. But cost aside.. If you have a very deep tank would they be more appropriate (assuming that you use the same amout of LEDs)?

03/15/2009, 08:41 AM	#320
thelastlaugh9 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Vienna, VA Posts: 26	Actually, I think I keep answering my own questions and type before I think.. I'm looking into setting up a very large tank and for now MH is probably the way to go until it becomes cost effective to use the more powerful LEDs

03/15/2009, 09:18 AM	#321
Soundwave Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Maroa, Il Posts: 361	I don't think the mc-e will ever be usable for our needs. Maybe something like a nano cube. I don't mean the actual nano cube product but something like 10 gallons.

03/15/2009, 11:25 AM	#323
thelastlaugh9 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Vienna, VA Posts: 26	Gorgeous

03/15/2009, 01:31 PM	#324
kcress Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Central California Coast. Posts: 5,383	Nothing but the board?!? Do you have a temp gun?