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Old 08/22/2017, 10:33 PM   #9576
Floyd R Turbo
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edited post above a bit


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Old 08/22/2017, 11:33 PM   #9577
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And feed.


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Old 08/23/2017, 04:51 AM   #9578
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Thanks, I'll give it a try and let you know how it works.


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Old 08/23/2017, 11:11 AM   #9579
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So I may have found part of the problem. Since the start of this tank I was using HW Reefer salt from BRS. prior to that in my nano I was using Tropic Marin and everything was great. But this tank has been nothing but issues. No K or I2 in the water at all. Always had to supplement to get those levels up. Called BRS and they stated there were some issues with that salt and bad batches. Gave me a credit and I bought Brightwell aquatics salt in place of it. Have done three 40g water changes since and I finally am seeing some turnaround on frags from the old tank. Cup coral is extending polyps again. Monticello's,s are coloring back up. I thought I was going with the best salt but guess not. Finally after 4 months starting to see some coralline specs growing.


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Old 08/23/2017, 11:21 AM   #9580
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Not to derail the discussion too much, but our local club had a slew of people having problems with inconsistent parameters on one particular brand of salt. It wasn't HW but I won't mention it by name, just will note that several people switched to Aquaforest and/or went back to the long-term standby brands they had been using and have had tanks turn back around again.

I want to be careful to not let this discussion go off on a tangent about salt brands, because anyone who has gotten into that discussion knows there are all kinds of opinions on that. I have very little opinion, maybe that's because I really have been slacking on doing any water changes for a while....I'm not a huge proponent of scrubber + no water changes, but I also don't have time to do them very often, so it just happens to be that way. Hence, I don't use much salt.


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Old 08/23/2017, 01:29 PM   #9581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo View Post
Not to derail the discussion too much, but our local club had a slew of people having problems with inconsistent parameters on one particular brand of salt. It wasn't HW but I won't mention it by name, just will note that several people switched to Aquaforest and/or went back to the long-term standby brands they had been using and have had tanks turn back around again.

I want to be careful to not let this discussion go off on a tangent about salt brands, because anyone who has gotten into that discussion knows there are all kinds of opinions on that. I have very little opinion, maybe that's because I really have been slacking on doing any water changes for a while....I'm not a huge proponent of scrubber + no water changes, but I also don't have time to do them very often, so it just happens to be that way. Hence, I don't use much salt.
I do not want to derail anything either. Just hoping to share a finding if in fact it is true. Time will tell


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Old 08/23/2017, 01:56 PM   #9582
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I think you'll find at one point or another all mass produced salts have inconsistencies. It's like the wild west for these companies, there is no federal regulations or testing from batch to batch. It all comes down to how much testing is done at the manufacturing level. Obviously some do more testing then others.


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Old 08/23/2017, 07:08 PM   #9583
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I get the screen is big but it would at least start growing some GHA on it, wouldn't it?
No, there won't be enough nutrients in the water too build the algal ladder strands that need to reach out past the slime into the flow, so the slime will dominate.


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Old 08/24/2017, 07:17 AM   #9584
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You need to feed enough to cultivate your algae base. That base will both sequester waste and generate food back for the tank. You need to feed and maintain strong flow. The algae will come.


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Old 08/24/2017, 08:43 AM   #9585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
maintain strong flow.
Strong flow is really only required when you A) need it and B) have a solid base of growth

Generally speaking, if you have the ability to dim or shade the lights, reducing the flow on start-up just to the point where you have even coverage will get your initial growth going well. After that, you can increase flow a bit, along with lighting intensity incrementally based on results.

Once you get a strong base of growth, if you have the nutrient density available in the water column, you can increase flow and lighting further.

But I've backed off on the more-flow-is-always-better philosophy, because it doesn't seem to fit all cases. The right flow is more accurate, which adds another moving target actually


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General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky)
--> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729
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Old 08/24/2017, 10:27 AM   #9586
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If there's sufficient food, flow brings more of it under the light.

Flow is also algae friendly, and goo/slime/bacteria unfriendly.


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Last edited by karimwassef; 08/24/2017 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 08/24/2017, 10:58 AM   #9587
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I guess the definition of "strong flow" could be the thing we are debating here - karimwassef what is your definition of "strong flow"....25 GPH/in? 30? 35? More? Less?


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Old 08/24/2017, 11:24 AM   #9588
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4000gph over a 2' x 3' screen. 2' wide and 3' long.


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Old 08/24/2017, 11:34 AM   #9589
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That's an insane amount of flow - 166 GPH/in. I found that going over 50 GPH/in hits diminishing returns. I've seen some cases where growth is better at a lower flow rate.

I think your setup is a bit of an exception, JMO


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Old 08/24/2017, 11:41 AM   #9590
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But you've seen my algae growth rate. Even in my new setup, I recycle a 3 gallon bucket weekly. Of course there's three gallons of food going in that cycle too... and three gallons of poo.. that turn into three gallons of algae (full of pods and worms) every week.

If there's food, the algae will grow. The faster flow against the surface air will be preferential to the algae vs. bacteria.

I agree that you need to give them time to anchor in though. But once you have the fuzz, faster and more food makes algae go nuts!


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Old 08/24/2017, 11:55 AM   #9591
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Plus some Iron.


Though I do agree with Bud your setup is an outlier. And others should find their sweet spot. Most likely it will be less flow. Mine was. To much flow and my scrubber grew less.


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Old 08/24/2017, 12:36 PM   #9592
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Iron? I considered adding iron but never did


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Old 08/24/2017, 12:40 PM   #9593
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Hmm... I wish I could show it graphically.

The only real limitation I've found is food. Light and flow only serve algae, but they seem excessive when the algae runs out of food. The more food, the more flow and light contribute directly to the growth rate.

There likely is a limit, by nothing our systems can easily generate - and I have tried very hard.

The only thing that hurt my scrubbers has been lack of food.


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Old 08/24/2017, 12:44 PM   #9594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
Hmm... I wish I could show it graphically.

The only real limitation I've found is food. Light and flow only serve algae, but they seem excessive when the algae runs out of food. The more food, the more flow and light contribute directly to the growth rate.

There likely is a limit, by nothing our systems can easily generate - and I have tried very hard.

The only thing that hurt my scrubbers has been lack of food.
If you don't currently dose iron, outside of anything in new salt and foods fed, I bet your algae could create a nuclear fallout.

You can google search
DIY the DIY FE++ Ferrous citrate supplement

for what I've done and made based on Randy's formula.


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Old 08/24/2017, 12:46 PM   #9595
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i would also be curious what your potassium levels are at. I haven't hit any limitations there and are in NSW range but you're pulling a lot more algae.


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Old 08/24/2017, 12:50 PM   #9596
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I don't actually export.. I feed my algae all back

My tangs also love bananas! You should check out my youtubes


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Old 08/24/2017, 01:54 PM   #9597
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I don't actually export.. I feed my algae all back

My tangs also love bananas! You should check out my youtubes
I knew you refed your fish but from what you typed above I was reading that you pulled some out too. Just my misunderstanding. Bananas I found out from PaulB and him feeding his Moorish Idol.


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Old 08/24/2017, 02:05 PM   #9598
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I recycle all unless someone wants some to start their culture. It's a swirling mass of life and I just can't throw it away.

I think bananas are the new secret coral food


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Old 08/25/2017, 10:20 AM   #9599
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If you don't currently dose iron, outside of anything in new salt and foods fed, I bet your algae could create a nuclear fallout.

You can google search
DIY the DIY FE++ Ferrous citrate supplement

for what I've done and made based on Randy's formula.
How could not dosing iron result in the algae creating a nuclear fallot? I googled what you said and found your thread on another forum and a bunch of recipes and substitutes for Randy's recipe, but nothing that talked about anything nuclear going on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
I recycle all unless someone wants some to start their culture. It's a swirling mass of life and I just can't throw it away.

I think bananas are the new secret coral food
I'm confused, if you feed all of your algae back to the tank, how do you control nutrients? I would think after weeks of throwing the algae back into the system that there would be too many nutrients in the water.


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Old 08/25/2017, 10:24 AM   #9600
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How could not dosing iron result in the algae creating a nuclear fallot? I googled what you said and found your thread on another forum and a bunch of recipes and substitutes for Randy's recipe, but nothing that talked about anything nuclear going on
I think what he was saying that is if he isn't currently dosing iron and he's getting that much growth, that if he then started dosing iron, his growth would explode.


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