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Old 10/20/2019, 05:00 PM   #3026
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Originally Posted by sensei View Post
Slief,


Can I know the main difference between the BK Supermarin skimmers and the Deluxe external skimmers?

I have a BK Supermarin 250 in my 600g system but I would like to have a typical old school Berlin setup, with an oversized skimmer 2.5 to 3 times the size of the system.

I have around 30 fish in my system, 10 of them tangs and several are 1 foot big.
my NO3 rose to 30ppm, I am carbon dosing now but NO3 keeps climbing and I have been increasing carbon dose to keep in the 5-10 ppm range.

I am looking at the Bubble King DeLuxe 500 external to have a little more than 2 times my system volume in the skimmer.

Thank you for your comments
You really dont want to oversize our skimmers. If fact, they always perform better when properly sized to the load and not the display size let alone system size. They are already very conservatively rated and your load is relatively low in terms of that Supermarins capabilities. I run an SM250 on my system. My display size is 500 gallons but the system volume is around 700 gallons. I have around 70 fish in my display. Several are large 10 tangs and there are several other fish that are in excess of 10. The SM250 could handle much more too. A truly heavy load by our standards is 1/2 of fish per gallon. I honestly dont think changing the skimmer is going to improve the no3 situation. A skimmer can only remove up to 30% of the dissolved organics anyways.

That said, the Deluxe wet skims as well as it dry skims as it has 2 separate adjustments for the internal levels. The telescope tube and the wedge pipe where as the SM only uses the wedge pipe. The body design is also slightly different which allows for better dry skimming. Both are made of very heavy acrylic and have a hand welded body. They are both our flagship lines though the Deluxe deals with lighter loads a bit better due to the wedge/telescope tube combo and body design. SM on the flip side is a GREAT skimmer but does prefer heavier loads and is best suited for wet skimming. In your case, you could just run it wetter if you want to strip more dissolved organics. That said, with your load, the Deluxe 500 would be way overkill and may perform inconsistently which would be counter productive for you. If anything, a Deluxe 300 would be a better choice unless you really planned on increasing your load substantially.

Hope that helps!


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Old 10/20/2019, 09:42 PM   #3027
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Slief,

I would like to add more fish in my tank but I do not feel confident in adding more now since NO3 keeps on rising with my current load, fish keep on growing in a big tank and I have to feed them. I would not like to increase more and more my carbon dose. My tangs are extra large I have ten and all are between (10-12 ") and they mega pop ...
I feed 3 sheets on nory per day and I can see a lot of nori particles in water column from the heavy pull that tangs do to the nori clip. I also feed frozen everyday.
My system is mainly for acropora. I would like feed heavy and heavy export

I though that the Deluxe skimmers were build mainly for dry skimming? do they perform consitently for wet skimming? they do not have the RD3 pump with the controller correct?
do the pumps in the deluxe are always at same speed?

the spec of the 500 deluxe says for aquariums from 2200 to 5000liters, so I guess I could not go wrong with it and it would be help me as I load my system with more fish?

I do not want to be using filter socks or any other export mechanism and rely purely in my oversized skimmer, this is why I insist

waiting for your response
best regards


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Old 10/20/2019, 10:17 PM   #3028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sensei View Post
Slief,

I would like to add more fish in my tank but I do not feel confident in adding more now since NO3 keeps on rising with my current load, fish keep on growing in a big tank and I have to feed them. I would not like to increase more and more my carbon dose. My tangs are extra large I have ten and all are between (10-12 ") and they mega pop ...
I feed 3 sheets on nory per day and I can see a lot of nori particles in water column from the heavy pull that tangs do to the nori clip. I also feed frozen everyday.
My system is mainly for acropora. I would like feed heavy and heavy export

I though that the Deluxe skimmers were build mainly for dry skimming? do they perform consitently for wet skimming? they do not have the RD3 pump with the controller correct?
do the pumps in the deluxe are always at same speed?

the spec of the 500 deluxe says for aquariums from 2200 to 5000liters, so I guess I could not go wrong with it and it would be help me as I load my system with more fish?

I do not want to be using filter socks or any other export mechanism and rely purely in my oversized skimmer, this is why I insist

waiting for your response
best regards
The pumps do run at a set speed and no RD3 on those models but that pump is virtually bullet proof and proven to last damn near indefinitely with reasonable maintenance intervals.

Yes, they will wet skim just fine. You just have to fine tune using the wedge pipe to raise the level inside the skimmer so you are skimming wetter.

And yes, that is the conservative range but you’d want at least 250” or so worth of fish to keep that skimmer happy. Granted girth of larger tangs and feedings does play a roll so you’d likely be fine and have good consistency. And a skimmer alone is NOT necessarily going to keep your nitrates down. As I said above, the most the best skimmer will reduce dissolved organics is about 30% so that leaves up to 70% dissolved organics left in your system. So you might still need some other form of nutrient reduction whether it’s socks, refugium, turf scrubber, carbon dosing, nitrate reactor whether it’s biopellets or a sulfer reactor etc. That said, some nitrates are needed even for SPS as corals need nutrients and consume dissolved organics.

The Deluxe 500 is a stupidly great skimmer as long as you have enough load to maintain a consistent foam head. And that skimmer could handle however many fish you could reasonably put in your display. And your load as it sits now is a bit light relative to that skimmer size and what it can handle. It’s a massive beast of a skimmer and will make your existing skimmer look like a dwarf.


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Last edited by slief; 10/20/2019 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 10/20/2019, 10:29 PM   #3029
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sensei View Post
Slief,

I would like to add more fish in my tank but I do not feel confident in adding more now since NO3 keeps on rising with my current load, fish keep on growing in a big tank and I have to feed them. I would not like to increase more and more my carbon dose. My tangs are extra large I have ten and all are between (10-12 ") and they mega pop ...
I feed 3 sheets on nory per day and I can see a lot of nori particles in water column from the heavy pull that tangs do to the nori clip. I also feed frozen everyday.
My system is mainly for acropora. I would like feed heavy and heavy export

I though that the Deluxe skimmers were build mainly for dry skimming? do they perform consitently for wet skimming? they do not have the RD3 pump with the controller correct?
do the pumps in the deluxe are always at same speed?

the spec of the 500 deluxe says for aquariums from 2200 to 5000liters, so I guess I could not go wrong with it and it would be help me as I load my system with more fish?

I do not want to be using filter socks or any other export mechanism and rely purely in my oversized skimmer, this is why I insist

waiting for your response
best regards
If you do decide to get that skimmer and decide you want a self cleaning head for that, let me know as I am also a rep for Aquadriver and we make a self cleaning head that is designed for that model skimmer that is unlike any neck cleaner out there. Its German made and has features no other neck cleaners offer that not only clean the neck but also improve the skimmers overall efficiency.
https://aquadriverusa.com/products/a...otein-skimmers


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Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476
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Old 10/21/2019, 07:40 AM   #3030
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Thanks Slief,

if you were to choose between a SM300 and a deluxe 400 that are rated for the same aquarium size, which one would you choose and why?

In addition, I have never had an external skimmer, not sure if they leak easily and it is better to always go for internal skimmers?


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Old 10/21/2019, 08:20 AM   #3031
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Thanks Slief,

if you were to choose between a SM300 and a deluxe 400 that are rated for the same aquarium size, which one would you choose and why?

In addition, I have never had an external skimmer, not sure if they leak easily and it is better to always go for internal skimmers?
Deluxe 400 for sure. I prefer internal skimmers due to their simplicity as you dont need extra plumbing for the drain and feed line and the fact that you dont need a separate pump to feed them so less power too. There should be no need to worry about leaking if your plumbing is done right but a collection cup overflow could result in water on the floor. Either way, I prefer internal skimmers.


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Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476
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Old 10/21/2019, 08:48 AM   #3032
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Slief,
Why would you choose the deluxe 400 vr the SM300??
what is the benefit of one vr the other one?
price is almost double in the deluxe and it is rated for same aquarium size, so that is a contra of the deluxe. In addition, the deluxe has two pumps and would be more pumps to clean every 45 days
SM has only one pump and is a RD3 with the controller.

I can not see any benefit in the deluxe 400 vr the other one.


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Old 10/21/2019, 09:08 AM   #3033
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Slief,
Why would you choose the deluxe 400 vr the SM300??
what is the benefit of one vr the other one?
price is almost double in the deluxe and it is rated for same aquarium size, so that is a contra of the deluxe. In addition, the deluxe has two pumps and would be more pumps to clean every 45 days
SM has only one pump and is a RD3 with the controller.

I can not see any benefit in the deluxe 400 vr the other one.
The Deluxe 400 has a much higher body volume than the SM300 so you have better contact time and more efficient dissolved organic export. The Deluxe is more flexible in terms of load and tuning and will perform better with lighter loads than the SM but could handle heavier loads too. Those are the number one reasons I’d go with the Deluxe over the SM. The Deluxe is my favorite skimmer and the AC pumps are bullet proof and since you want a large skimmer (Berlin method), having those AC pumps with their adjustable nozzle will work in your favor since you can adjust the air/water intake ratio for varying loads. Don’t get me wrong, I love the SM’s too but if I had a choice, I’d go with the Deluxe anytime and given what you are after, I think the Deluxe 400 would be a good choice.

The AC pumps should be cleaned every 5 to 6 months. No need to clean them every 45 days and those pumps are proven to last 10+ years so there is nothing wrong with those pumps. They are set it and forget it other then initial tuning via the adjustable nozzles.


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Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476
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Old 10/21/2019, 10:04 AM   #3034
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Thanks a lot for your answers Slief,

one last question:
I believe that the recommended cleaning skedule for the SM250 pump is monthly is not it?? why is the cleaning time of the deluxe pumps different ( 6 months)?


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Old 10/21/2019, 10:43 AM   #3035
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Thanks a lot for your answers Slief,

one last question:
I believe that the recommended cleaning skedule for the SM250 pump is monthly is not it?? why is the cleaning time of the deluxe pumps different ( 6 months)?
Very glad to help. The maintenance intervals are not that stringent. It really depends on the system. Some systems depending on dosing habits and where the dosing is done can build up calcium inside the pump quickly and depending on critters in the sump like snails, maintenance could be done more frequently. I clean my RD3 skimmer pump every 4-5 months. I do check the nozzle every month or so to make sure there isn't any salt buildup in the venturi port though.


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Old 10/22/2019, 10:50 PM   #3036
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Slief,

the usual maintenance I do for my BK250 is cleaning the pump and the venturi, but I have never cleaned the resonator. is it necessary to clean it as often as the pump?
How do you clean it and what do you inspect?
how do you disamble it?

will not cleaning the resonator lower the performance of the skimmer?

Thanks


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470g DT SPS dominated (600g system) - five 400W MH , BK 250 SM Skimmer
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Old 10/23/2019, 01:06 AM   #3037
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Slief,

the usual maintenance I do for my BK250 is cleaning the pump and the venturi, but I have never cleaned the resonator. is it necessary to clean it as often as the pump?
How do you clean it and what do you inspect?
how do you disamble it?

will not cleaning the resonator lower the performance of the skimmer?

Thanks
I check mine every year or two. If it gets plugged up with dust, it will inhibit air flow. If the skimmer is in a very humid enviornment, it could get pluged up with salt from the air but dust is the most common issue and even that is rarely an issue. To clean it, pop the silencer off the wedge pipe by holding the wedge pipe in one hand and the silencer in the other and lift it off the wedge pipe. Then disconnect the silicone hose from the bottom of the silencer. Next, take a long thin screw driver or meat skewer (I’ve used that in a pinch) and push it up through the tube on the bottom of the silencer (where the silicone hose connects to) so that the end of the screw driver or whatever you are using is pushing up against the underside of the silencer lid. Then use your tool to push the top cover off the silencer. The cover isn’t glued. It’s press fit into the body of the silencer. I use a long thin screw driver and place the handle part of the screw driver on a table and grip the body of the silencer and push down to pop the lid off. Inside is the foam filter. Put it under the faucet and squeeze it like a sponge to rinse it out. Then let it air dry before putting the silencer back together.


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Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476
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Old 11/01/2019, 08:12 PM   #3038
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Slief,

I got the SM 300, can you tell me the sweet spot for the RD DC pump?

Thanks


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Old 11/01/2019, 09:35 PM   #3039
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Slief,

I got the SM 300, can you tell me the sweet spot for the RD DC pump?

Thanks
Typically between 45 and 50w. Sometimes less is more so keep that in mind. Use the pump speed to get the most dense foam. Too much flow/wattage and the bubbles burst at the surface instead of rising slowly. Some have even had the 300s do great at 40w. So you could start there. Use the wedge pipe to raise the level up. If you have a light load relative to the skimmer size, you might need to run the sump level higher. Normally Id suggest 9 deep but in a light load situation, 9.5 can be better.


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Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476
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Old 11/02/2019, 10:48 AM   #3040
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Thanks Slief,

the recommendation of running sump level higher is to have more water to air mixture if needed?

is the RD3 pump in the SM 300 exactly the same one used for the SM 250?
I run my SM 250 at 38W, not sure if increasing flow would help skim more in that one?

Thanks again


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Old 11/02/2019, 09:44 PM   #3041
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Thanks Slief,

the recommendation of running sump level higher is to have more water to air mixture if needed?

is the RD3 pump in the SM 300 exactly the same one used for the SM 250?
I run my SM 250 at 38W, not sure if increasing flow would help skim more in that one?

Thanks again
The sump level adjustment has to do with the internal water level in the skimmer and not having to close the wedge pipe to much that it makes adjusting the skimmer too sensitive. If the level in the sump is too low relative to the load, the wedge pipe will have to be closed more than 50% which can make fine tuning via the wedge tough.

The pump speed has to do with contact time and sufficient flow for the size of the body. The 300 comes with a 60w pump. If your SM250 has the white pump cover/volute, then they are the same pump. And increasing flow doesn’t result in skimming more. Increasing flow results in less contact time depending on the size of the skimmer which can result in less efficient skimming. Again, as I said above, use the pump speed to get the most dense foam. The range is a guideline but how the skimmer reacts to increased or decreased pump speed has much to do with the amount of dissolved organics. The greater the dissolved organics, the less pump speed you need to maintain a good solid foam head. You are using the pump speed to tune the foam density and the wedge pipe to tune from wet to dry skimming.

Best advice I can give you is to experiment with the speed and see how the foam looks. I gave you some guidelines. You want a thick frothy foam that doesn’t have bubbles bursting at the surface. This of course is in an ideal world where the skimmer isn’t oversized for the load. If your skimmer is oversized for your load, tuning the skimmer and getting that thick dense foam will be more difficult since there won’t be enough dissolved organics in the water to keep the neck filled with dense foam. Thus you’d have to run it wetter by using the wedge pipe and sump level to raise the line where bubbles turn to foam (break line) up higher in the body or even up into the neck. Remember, it’s the dissolved organics/proteins that allow the bubbles to bind together into the chains that form foam. In the absence of enough DOC’s, you get bubbles that rise quickly and burst at the surface. If there is plenty of dissolved organics, then you make thick foam and can run the break line lower below the point where the cup attaches to the body. This is also why I am so adamant about not oversizing BK’s. They are very conservatively rated and the SM’s in particular require a heavy load relative to their tank size rating. They are big skimmers with large volume necks that require plenty of DOC’s to keep the necks consistently filled with foam in order to maintain consistent skimmate production. Thus, erring on the side of caution when it comes to sizing is always best. Without knowing your load or the next person reading this thread, I figured I’d point that out.


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Last edited by slief; 11/02/2019 at 09:51 PM.
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Old 11/03/2019, 12:00 PM   #3042
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Thanks for your thorough explanation, it helps a lot in understanding the skimmer!

I also thought that the height of the water in sump also impacts the head pressure over the pump, so a higher level of water would cause the pump to pull and inject less air to the skimmer??

but I understand that this would not matter and what we are trying is to have a higher level of water in the body of the skimmer to avoid closing the wedge pipe to much, correct?

would it be to much if I have a level of 11 inches in sump?
11" favors me because I need a additional sump to put the 2nd skimmer and I want the new sump to overflow by gravity to my main sump and with this measures everything fits under my stand.

please let me know what you think


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Old 11/03/2019, 12:14 PM   #3043
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Thanks for your thorough explanation, it helps a lot in understanding the skimmer!

I also thought that the height of the water in sump also impacts the head pressure over the pump, so a higher level of water would cause the pump to pull and inject less air to the skimmer??

but I understand that this would not matter and what we are trying is to have a higher level of water in the body of the skimmer to avoid closing the wedge pipe to much, correct?

would it be to much if I have a level of 11 inches in sump?
11" favors me because I need a additional sump to put the 2nd skimmer and I want the new sump to overflow by gravity to my main sump and with this measures everything fits under my stand.

please let me know what you think
At 11” you’d likely have to run the pump speed at a lower wattage otherwise, it might overflow. That said, I am sure it would work OK but you would be limiting your tuning ability since you would have to run the pump speed lower to deal with the deeper sump. And the lower pump speed might work great compared to a higher one but you would never know since you wont be able to test it at higher speeds to have anything to compare to. And I have no idea what speed an 11” deep sump would necessitate just in case you were going to ask that.

The additional sump depth doesn’t really impact the head pressure on the pump. It’s the breakline level inside the skimmer that would impact head pressure on the pump but that isn’t even a concern as it really doesn’t impact the pumps since you tuning the foam density via the pump speed anyway.

In all honesty, I would ditch the 2nd skimmer. It’s not a good idea and it IS going to impact the performance and consistency of the 300 & the 250 resulting in inconsistent performance. I run an SM250 on a 700 gallon system (500 gallon main display) with over 70 fish in it. Several of which are around 10”+ fish including a very large vlamingi and a very large unicorn tank. My SM250 could handle a LOT more load. In fact, I wouldn’t even run a SM300 on my system because it likely wouldn’t be consistent with my load and would be somewhat difficult to tune given the SM300 needs a substantial amount of DOC’s to keep it well fed and consistent. It’s more suited for a 700-1000 gallon display with a truly heavy load than it is a 500 gallon display with a reasonably heavy load. And 2 skimmers would never run consistently on my system with one being my SM250 nor do I think it will on yours.

The issue is that the lack of skimming consistency results in elevated dissolved organics since the skimmers need those DOC’s to build a good foam head to fill the neck. If you have too much skimmer, those DOC’s will be removed quickly and the skimmers will idle along while the DOC’s build back up in the system until there is enough DOC’s to fill the neck with foam again at which point the skimmer (s) will skim well for again for a day or two and then stop producing. And then the cycle repeats itself. It will make it nearly impossible to tune either of your skimmers let alone maintain consistently low DOC’s. You are far better off with one properly sized skimmer that consistently works hard than having too much skimmer that hardly has to work and is inconsistent as a result. It WILL result in inconsistently low DOC’s instead of consistently low DOC’s. And due to these skimmers being truly conservatively rated, you can easily end up with too much skimmer resulting in perpetual tuning issues and inconsistent performance. Trust me, I’ve been down this path before with other customers. I’ve had oversized skimmers on my system before and fought them tooth and nail and dealt with inconsistent performance and overflows as a result of having to run them too wet to keep the consistent. 30+ years in this hobby and several years in the industry has taught me a lot. One properly sized skimmer will serve you and your system far better and result in lower overall DOC’s since you will never remove more than 30% of the DOC’s whether you run 1 properly sized high performance skimmer like the BK or 10 of them. In fact, the single skimmer that is well tuned will maintain better water quality than 2 or even 10 skimmers for the reasons I mentioned above. This is coming from decades of experience. I promise you, less is more in your case!


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Last edited by slief; 11/03/2019 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 11/03/2019, 01:51 PM   #3044
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Thanks Slief,

I want to experiment with the oversized skimming power of Berlin method. It sounds like a great concept and people have had success with oversized skimmers. I refuse to believe that you can not do it with BK skimmers.

I feed 3 sheets of nori daily in addition to frozen food and my big tangs pull the nori sheet so hard that massive amounts of nori flakes get into water column, some get eaten by fish but most do not. I know it is a mayor contaminant. I need extra skimmimg power to help me pull as much as possible before they break down.

I will let you know how it goes once I have them running.

Thanks a lot


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Old 11/05/2019, 07:33 AM   #3045
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Slief,

I have an additional question.
when you close the wedge pipe to much, would you be forcing the pump of the skimmer?

I have been working with my SM250 with the wedge pipe a closed more than 50% but skimmer works very well and it is very consistent, the sump level is 20 cms as recommended by manufacturer, but with your explanation I am wondering if it would be better to higher the sump level a bit and open more the wedge pipe??

or I better keep it as it is since it is working fine?

please let me know what you think

thanks


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470g DT SPS dominated (600g system) - five 400W MH , BK 250 SM Skimmer
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90 g Coral quarantine - XR15w Pro, 20g TTM Fish Qt
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Old 11/05/2019, 09:59 PM   #3046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sensei View Post
Slief,

I have an additional question.
when you close the wedge pipe to much, would you be forcing the pump of the skimmer?

I have been working with my SM250 with the wedge pipe a closed more than 50% but skimmer works very well and it is very consistent, the sump level is 20 cms as recommended by manufacturer, but with your explanation I am wondering if it would be better to higher the sump level a bit and open more the wedge pipe??

or I better keep it as it is since it is working fine?

please let me know what you think

thanks
Closing the wedge pipe too much can result in surging inside the body due to siphoning out the drain. Youd notice the break line moving up and down. How much is too much is dependent on pump speed and other factors. If the foam head is stable, then you are fine. It has no impact on the pump. Just impacts how water exits the skimmer and to a minor extent you ability to tune the skimmer. If you raise the sump level a bit, it would make the skimmer less sensitive to wedge pipe adjustments which can make it easier to tune since it wont be so sensitive. The ideal sump depth is really more a matter of lead. I heavier load typically requires a lower sump depth than a lighter load. If it were me, Id suggest raising your sump level a couple CMs. It will make fine tuning via the wedge pipe a bit easier. And you will likely need to raise it even more if you add that second skimmer to maintain any semblance of consistency.


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Old 11/06/2019, 12:43 PM   #3047
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Thanks a lot Slief


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Old Yesterday, 09:34 PM   #3048
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Hello Slief,

can you confirm if the pump of the SM300 has only 3 screws?
the skimmer I ordered only came with only 3 and the white block of the pump has no hole for the 4th screw?? it doe snot seem right with only 3 srews to tighten the motor block

the SM 250 I have has 4 screws, this is why I ask.

please see the photos of the SM 300

3 screws.jpg
white block.jpg

waiting for your reply


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470g DT SPS dominated (600g system) - five 400W MH , BK 250 SM Skimmer
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90 g Coral quarantine - XR15w Pro, 20g TTM Fish Qt
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Old Yesterday, 11:51 PM   #3049
slief
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sensei View Post
Hello Slief,

can you confirm if the pump of the SM300 has only 3 screws?
the skimmer I ordered only came with only 3 and the white block of the pump has no hole for the 4th screw?? it doe snot seem right with only 3 srews to tighten the motor block

the SM 250 I have has 4 screws, this is why I ask.

please see the photos of the SM 300

Attachment 404353
Attachment 404354

waiting for your reply
Yep. That is the latest volute for the 60w. It seals just fine and only 3 screws are used on that model. There isn’t enough depth in the CNC’s PVC volute on the 60w for a screw in that corner due to the output nozzle.


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For All Royal Exclusiv & Bubble King questions please refer to our Sponsor forum: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=745

Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476

Last edited by slief; Yesterday at 11:56 PM.
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