Fallow period Over. Fish ready to come out of QT?

CedzAquAddictio · 12/31/2012, 09:59 AM

Alright everyone. My tank has officially been fallow for 10 weeks, so I'm fairly confident that it is ich free as nothing has been added for months (inverts included).

My fish have been in a 55g QT tank for a while now. For the last 30 days, all fish have been under a Coppersafe treatment.

Now for the nitty-gritty. About 3 weeks ago, I added a kole tang that I watched at the LFS for 2-3 weeks before purchasing. Of course it broke out with ich the next day (dang beautiful, dirty fish!!!). I immediately removed the tang, and placed it in my mantis tank so it wouldn't infect the others. Two days after removal, one of my BT triggers started showing signs. The signs of ich disappeared after 4 days in the QT that is still running coppersafe. Re-dosed after 3, 14g waterchanges to clear the water column.

My question is, how long should I keep the fish in the coppersafe after all signs of ich are gone? I am getting conflicting answers from the web, and don't want to keep the fish in copper for too long as I hear it can cause long term damage.

Thanks all!!!

MrTuskfish · 12/31/2012, 01:27 PM

If the tang was in with other fish at all; you can consider that tank ich infested. FWIW; I don't think proper use of copper does anything long-term to fish and I've never seen anything (other tham anecdotal accounts) that says otherwise. Many public facilities and serious hobbyists run low levels of copper 24/7/365 with no long-term problems. I've had many fish live and thrive for 10+ years after being treated with copper.

If all fish have been properly treated with copper; I'd return them no sooner than 2 weeks after seeing any signs of ich. With the history in the HT, I think an extra week or two is a good idea. IMO, copper treatment should be 4 weeks at the full therapeutic dose. This includes the 2nd treatment after the tang episode. This is longer that most copper brands advise.

Where is the new tang now? Was/is it with the other fish in the HT? How has its treatment been handled? I assume you've already figured that adding a fish during ongoing treatment isn't a great idea.

CedzAquAddictio · 12/31/2012, 02:16 PM

Hey, Man. Thanks for your response... I was figuring they would be in for another 4 weeks of copper treatment, but it is good to hear that there should be no adverse effects. Agreed that they can probably be moved a little sooner, but, it has been 10 weeks already. I guess there's no reason to risk everything over an additional week or two. I've heard of fish stores that run low levels of copper as well. That's probably why the fish look so healthy in the LFS's, huh?

The new tang has been moved from my mantis tank (no other fish were in this tank) to an extra 40B that I had sitting around. Started up a HT for my HT, so-to-speak. I guess this will have to do for the time being, and it lets me focus on treating her individually. I love tangs, but, will not be buying another after this one. They are absolutely beautiful fish, but, just get ich too dang easy.
***Correction: I did have 5 mollies that I converted to SW in the mantis tank just as an experiment. They were healthy until I got the tang. They have since gotten ich and died. May not have been the best decision to make, but, I was looking at it in regards to it's either the mollies that will get ich, or the existing expensive fish in my HT. Either way, the mantis tank will sit as is until I'm done with the current QT, HT, DT process. After cleaning for copper the 55g will become my new mantis tank (set up with all new crushed coral and LR that I have in a big rubbermaid tub for now, getting cycled.).

Yes, Sir, Lesson learned about adding fish during a treatment. I thought I was adding her early enough that if there was an outbreak, all fish could be treated at the same time. Big Mistake!!!

Thanks so much!!!

MrTuskfish · 12/31/2012, 03:03 PM

LFS run copper primarily for algae and velvet. A velvet epidemic in the system of a LFS would be devastating. Just a heads up; copper at the LFS can hide velvet, but not wipe it out. I'm convinced that many of the ich reports on RC are really velvet; especially when fish start croaking quickly. The level of copper usually isn't high enough to completely get ich. (IMO) Yeah, tangs get ich very easily. But they tolerate copper well and are easy to treat in the QT. One copper treatment, then into the DT. Assuming the DT is ich free; tangs live long, healthy lives . I love them and have many of them.

CedzAquAddictio · 12/31/2012, 03:49 PM

Interesting that you would say that. Didn't know about the copper and algae thing. Learn something new everyday...

The LFS copper and velvet: I kind figured that may have been the case. Not that they would intentionally sale an infected fish, but, it does explain how a fish can appear healthy for weeks and sometimes months in a LFS, then show symptoms of ich and/or velvet within a day of being placed in a home aquarium not running copper. It may have always been there, just hidden, and when the copper is no longer there to hid it, it is exposed, and the fish's health begins to decline...

Another reason to QT everything!!!

MrTuskfish · 12/31/2012, 08:38 PM

It's always been our job to quarantine fish and knoqw their health before adding them to a DT. If a LFS did a proper qt job on all of their fish; the price would double and I still wouldn't trust them. This has been the case for all of the 35 years or so that I've kept SW fish. Every decent book I've ever seen on the hobby considers a QT to be vital equipment, not just something nice to have. I'm amazed at the non-stop new hobbyist threads that ask for needed equipment for a newcomer. very seldom is a QT even mentioned. Sad; and certainly a major reason for the frustration and high turnover in our hobby.

snorvich · 01/01/2013, 07:35 AM

Excellent advice from MrTuskfish. I personally consider time at an LFS as increasing the likelihood of a fish bringing in something undesirable. The longer it stays at an LFS, the more probable it is carrying something.

CedzAquAddictio · 01/01/2013, 12:37 PM

I'm starting to see where you all are coming from...

Most LFSs have all systems plumbed together as well. Imagine what is in that water column with hundreds of fish coming from various vendors and customers. They are most often placed in the tank without much checking as well. If they are alive, they go in...

Unfortunately, seems that this would be the case of getting fish on-line as well, right? Do you all know of any on-line places that do a true QT like LiveAquaria's Divers Den?

Thanks...

MrTuskfish · 01/01/2013, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CedzAquAddictio

I'm starting to see where you all are coming from...

Most LFSs have all systems plumbed together as well. Imagine what is in that water column with hundreds of fish coming from various vendors and customers. They are most often placed in the tank without much checking as well. If they are alive, they go in...

Unfortunately, seems that this would be the case of getting fish on-line as well, right? Do you all know of any on-line places that do a true QT like LiveAquaria's Divers Den?

Thanks...

Even Divers Den; possibly the best source of fish on the planet, strongly recommends that you quarantine their fish. There simply is no substitute for a QT. Plus, you'll need a HT down the road, why not be ready?

CedzAquAddictio · 01/02/2013, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrTuskfish

Even Divers Den; possibly the best source of fish on the planet, strongly recommends that you quarantine their fish. There simply is no substitute for a QT. Plus, you'll need a HT down the road, why not be ready?

Amen to that... The biggest mistake I made was not setting up a QT BEFORE setting up my DT. The tempataion was just too great, and I figured I'd monitor my new fish in my DT. This is what led to my tank crash and fallow period that I'm in the middle of now...

If anyone reads this thread, it is very highly recommended that you never run a DT without a QT ad/or HT. You may think you have gotten away with that secret one-night-stand until you sit down at the table with your family, and all of them have white spots all over them from what that girl from the bar gave you...

Always QT first!!!

12/31/2012, 09:59 AM	#1
CedzAquAddictio Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 931	Fallow period Over. Fish ready to come out of QT? Alright everyone. My tank has officially been fallow for 10 weeks, so I'm fairly confident that it is ich free as nothing has been added for months (inverts included). My fish have been in a 55g QT tank for a while now. For the last 30 days, all fish have been under a Coppersafe treatment. Now for the nitty-gritty. About 3 weeks ago, I added a kole tang that I watched at the LFS for 2-3 weeks before purchasing. Of course it broke out with ich the next day (dang beautiful, dirty fish!!!). I immediately removed the tang, and placed it in my mantis tank so it wouldn't infect the others. Two days after removal, one of my BT triggers started showing signs. The signs of ich disappeared after 4 days in the QT that is still running coppersafe. Re-dosed after 3, 14g waterchanges to clear the water column. My question is, how long should I keep the fish in the coppersafe after all signs of ich are gone? I am getting conflicting answers from the web, and don't want to keep the fish in copper for too long as I hear it can cause long term damage. Thanks all!!!

12/31/2012, 01:27 PM	#2
MrTuskfish Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Wild Blue Yonder Posts: 8,887	If the tang was in with other fish at all; you can consider that tank ich infested. FWIW; I don't think proper use of copper does anything long-term to fish and I've never seen anything (other tham anecdotal accounts) that says otherwise. Many public facilities and serious hobbyists run low levels of copper 24/7/365 with no long-term problems. I've had many fish live and thrive for 10+ years after being treated with copper. If all fish have been properly treated with copper; I'd return them no sooner than 2 weeks after seeing any signs of ich. With the history in the HT, I think an extra week or two is a good idea. IMO, copper treatment should be 4 weeks at the full therapeutic dose. This includes the 2nd treatment after the tang episode. This is longer that most copper brands advise. Where is the new tang now? Was/is it with the other fish in the HT? How has its treatment been handled? I assume you've already figured that adding a fish during ongoing treatment isn't a great idea. __________________ If God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat. Steve Current Tank Info: 180, 2-240 FOWLRs, 240 reef

12/31/2012, 02:16 PM	#3
CedzAquAddictio Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 931	Hey, Man. Thanks for your response... I was figuring they would be in for another 4 weeks of copper treatment, but it is good to hear that there should be no adverse effects. Agreed that they can probably be moved a little sooner, but, it has been 10 weeks already. I guess there's no reason to risk everything over an additional week or two. I've heard of fish stores that run low levels of copper as well. That's probably why the fish look so healthy in the LFS's, huh? The new tang has been moved from my mantis tank (no other fish were in this tank) to an extra 40B that I had sitting around. Started up a HT for my HT, so-to-speak. I guess this will have to do for the time being, and it lets me focus on treating her individually. I love tangs, but, will not be buying another after this one. They are absolutely beautiful fish, but, just get ich too dang easy. **Correction: I did have 5 mollies that I converted to SW in the mantis tank just as an experiment. They were healthy until I got the tang. They have since gotten ich and died. May not have been the best decision to make, but, I was looking at it in regards to it's either the mollies that will get ich, or the existing expensive fish in my HT. Either way, the mantis tank will sit as is until I'm done with the current QT, HT, DT process. After cleaning for copper the 55g will become my new mantis tank (set up with all new crushed coral and LR that I have in a big rubbermaid tub for now, getting cycled.). Yes, Sir, Lesson learned about adding fish during a treatment. I thought I was adding her early enough that if there was an outbreak, all fish could be treated at the same time. Big Mistake!!! Thanks so much!!! Last edited by CedzAquAddictio; 12/31/2012 at 02:27 PM.*

12/31/2012, 03:03 PM	#4
MrTuskfish Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Wild Blue Yonder Posts: 8,887	LFS run copper primarily for algae and velvet. A velvet epidemic in the system of a LFS would be devastating. Just a heads up; copper at the LFS can hide velvet, but not wipe it out. I'm convinced that many of the ich reports on RC are really velvet; especially when fish start croaking quickly. The level of copper usually isn't high enough to completely get ich. (IMO) Yeah, tangs get ich very easily. But they tolerate copper well and are easy to treat in the QT. One copper treatment, then into the DT. Assuming the DT is ich free; tangs live long, healthy lives . I love them and have many of them. __________________ If God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat. Steve Current Tank Info: 180, 2-240 FOWLRs, 240 reef

12/31/2012, 08:38 PM	#6
MrTuskfish Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Wild Blue Yonder Posts: 8,887	It's always been our job to quarantine fish and knoqw their health before adding them to a DT. If a LFS did a proper qt job on all of their fish; the price would double and I still wouldn't trust them. This has been the case for all of the 35 years or so that I've kept SW fish. Every decent book I've ever seen on the hobby considers a QT to be vital equipment, not just something nice to have. I'm amazed at the non-stop new hobbyist threads that ask for needed equipment for a newcomer. very seldom is a QT even mentioned. Sad; and certainly a major reason for the frustration and high turnover in our hobby. __________________ If God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat. Steve Current Tank Info: 180, 2-240 FOWLRs, 240 reef

12/31/2012, 03:49 PM	#5
CedzAquAddictio Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 931	Interesting that you would say that. Didn't know about the copper and algae thing. Learn something new everyday... The LFS copper and velvet: I kind figured that may have been the case. Not that they would intentionally sale an infected fish, but, it does explain how a fish can appear healthy for weeks and sometimes months in a LFS, then show symptoms of ich and/or velvet within a day of being placed in a home aquarium not running copper. It may have always been there, just hidden, and when the copper is no longer there to hid it, it is exposed, and the fish's health begins to decline... Another reason to QT everything!!!

01/01/2013, 07:35 AM	#7
snorvich Team RC member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Outlander Posts: 40,953 Blog Entries: 46	Excellent advice from MrTuskfish. I personally consider time at an LFS as increasing the likelihood of a fish bringing in something undesirable. The longer it stays at an LFS, the more probable it is carrying something. __________________ Warmest regards, ~Steve~

01/01/2013, 12:37 PM	#8
CedzAquAddictio Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 931	I'm starting to see where you all are coming from... Most LFSs have all systems plumbed together as well. Imagine what is in that water column with hundreds of fish coming from various vendors and customers. They are most often placed in the tank without much checking as well. If they are alive, they go in... Unfortunately, seems that this would be the case of getting fish on-line as well, right? Do you all know of any on-line places that do a true QT like LiveAquaria's Divers Den? Thanks...