Caribbean Biotope Seagrass Tank

[Michael Hoaster]

Jlynn, anything you can find out about seagrasses, I'd love to hear. I've read all the old post-favorites about them on RC. They are a gold mine of info.

Yes, the blenny hunt is on! I have Sealife bookmarked and check their site often. I think I'll shoot them an email to ask their opinion/experience on the blennies they carry. They do have some of the fish on my list. I have a running list of the best prices I can find on each one, since I am very budget conscious. Sealife has the best price on cherub angels and blue tangs.

One thing I need to consider is the final number of algae eaters, and will there be enough algae to go around! Right now, I've got algae up to my ears, so I want an army of cleaners, but I know that will change. Once the tank has cycled and algae settles down (soon please!), there may only be enough for a blue tang and a conch. So I may have to whittle down the fish list further.

In the end, I may not need a blenny at all. And if I have to choose between a blenny and a tang, well, there's no contest!

[JLynn]

... Who wins that contest?

Anyways, a couple scraps I have found about Thalassia testudinum: it achieves optimum productivity (and thus, presumably, growth) at 30 ppt, according to a study done in Florida Bay. Thalassia testudinum grows the most in areas near the hypersalinic outflows from mangrove groves, with growth rates being progressively slower as you get farther out into the meadow. Also, higher temperatures increase growth rates. (That one was pretty common-sense, though.) I'll keep looking. I think there are some threads on nano reef... Pictures of the growth and spread over time in an aquarium would be the most useful for this situation, I think.

[braden]

Originally Posted by JLynn

Good luck finding a nice, authentic blenny! Have you looked at Sea Life Inc.? They catch their fish by hand from the Caribbean. I believe they are based somewhere in Florida. On their website, they have a Barnacle Blenny (aka Molly Miller Blenny), a Pike Blenny, a Sailfin Blenny, and a "Goldline" Blenny (never heard of that one before). They also have some other fish you mentioned you were planning on getting, like Chalk Basses and Cherub Angelfish.

I got 60 lbs of rock from Sea Life Inc. (which seems to be in the process of changing its name to KP Aquatics). They're in Tavernier (in the Keys). Good stuff, as far as I can tell. It's just been in the tank about a week now; my tank's still cycling. I'll probably go back to them for some livestock once things settle.

Mine will also be a seagrass tank. And I'm going the biotope route: trying to source things as close as I reasonably can to the environment I'm trying to recreate. I'd like to stick with Thalassia for seagrass; but I'm finding locating a source quite difficult.

[Michael Hoaster]

Blue Tang wins! I so look forward to watching a juvenile yellow phase tang, growing and changing over time.

Most of my research focused on Manatee Grass, since Turtle Grass was initially hard to find. Manatee grass prefers 25ppt. I guess I'll split the difference!

Although I had originally planned on doing Manatee Grass only, I'm happy with all of them so far. I imagine a lot of plans will change over the years. It's all good.

[karimwassef]

Just a thought- cloudy water will reduce the benefits of your halide on growth. Are you clear yet?

If not, a skimmer may not be a bad idea for a short time.

I've taken all my urchins and put them in my refugium- they were starting to
munch the coralline!! They've got hair and Chaeto to feed on for years in there.

[Michael Hoaster]

Welcome, braden! I'm thrilled you and I are doing similar tanks! Have you started a thread? If so, I'll read it before I ask you the many questions I have for you. Let me know.

Live Aquaria, diver's den is where I got turtle grass. I think you made the best possible choice for caribbean rock.

I look forward to hearing from you!

[Michael Hoaster]

Karim, the water's getting clearer. As for light penetration, I think I may have a little too much light, so I'm not sweating it. I do love skimmers, but I'm going to do without, unless I find I have to have one. I already know which one I'd choose!

Urchins are serious life-munchers! I'd get rid of them, or all but one, if I were you.

What's next for your tank?

[karimwassef]

I'm keeping them in the refugium in case I need them again. My special reserves.

My coralline is finally showing. I got a bubble coral and a mated pair of clowns. Next step - wait till everything goes pink and purple

[Michael Hoaster]

Sounds like a good plan.

What kind of clowns? Are you going to set them up with an anemone? I had great success with the rose bulb anemone, and a pair of common clowns. In the meantime, your clowns may host on one of your corals. Anyway, sounds life fun, adding livestock. I'm chompin' at the bit over here! Just a couple more weeks or so, and it's my turn to add livestock…yay!

[Michael Hoaster]

Remember a while back I mentioned a tiny hitchhiker? I thought it might be a cucumber. This to me looks like a sea hare or nudibranch. Anybody ID this little fella?


I tried shooting through a magnifying glass on this one.


But wait, there's more!

I found another similar looking thing, laying eggs. I guess I better get to work figuring these out. Hope they like algae!

[braden]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

Welcome, braden! I'm thrilled you and I are doing similar tanks! Have you started a thread? If so, I'll read it before I ask you the many questions I have for you. Let me know.

I have not. Ask away. I'll post a picture tomorrow. Right now the tank's quite cloudy as I was rearranging the rock a bit. The sand bed is 280 lbs of CaribSea Ocean Direct Oolite; which is really nice sand, but comes with a fair amount of silt.

Briefly, the tank is a 93 gallon Marineland frameless lit by three 150W metal halide pendants.

Live Aquaria, diver's den is where I got turtle grass.

How recently? I don't see it listed on their site.

I think you made the best possible choice for caribbean rock.

I am pretty happy with it. KP Aquatics was one of the few places (or perhaps the only place) I found that would ship uncured aquacultured rock. I wanted uncured rock since the tank is just starting out and I wanted to retain as much diversity on the rock as possible.

I've been following this thread for some time. A seagrass tank is something I've wanted to do for some years; though I've only recently been able to get back into this hobby.

[Michael Hoaster]

You should definitely start a thread. Tell us about your goals/plans for the tank, etc. This is my first thread, and I have thoroughly enjoyed it! Plus, it has helped me stick to my plans, by stating them publicly. And this place is a goldmine of information!

I forgot to mention, it's Live Aquaria, Diver's Den, inverts section. I just checked, they have 'em. Reefs2go.com also carries them, but they're out right now. Plus they're pricier than LA. Live-plants.com is another source, and they're macros are great.

I am assuming you're doing a caribbean biotope, since you got caribbean rock, right? What are your tank's dimensions? Are you curing your rock in-tank? If so, I'd advise protein skimming, lots of water movement, water changes and more time to complete the nitrogen cycle. It may get mucky for awhile, but you'll be seeding your sand with live stuff too.

Any particular fish, inverts, etc?

[Michael Hoaster]

So, I've got at least two sea hares (I think), and a coil of eggs one of them laid. The good news is they are apparently voracious algae eaters. The bad news is, they squirt ink when threatened, which could be bad in the confines of an aquarium. I'll leave them be for awhile. The trick to remove them, would be to get them out without alarming them, and be ready to do a water change if they squirt.

I've also found several (many?) little tiny anemone/jellyfish-looking things. I think they are a larval stage of some kind of anemone or coral. They have tentacles like an anemone, and 'swim' like a jelly. They swim, then settle and repeat. Since I have no way of catching them all at this size, I'll wait and see.

Kind of exciting/terrifying!

I did no dips with the seagrasses or macros before introduction. Hopefully, I won't regret that later…

[braden]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

You should definitely start a thread. Tell us about your goals/plans for the tank, etc. This is my first thread, and I have thoroughly enjoyed it! Plus, it has helped me stick to my plans, by stating them publicly. And this place is a goldmine of information!

Alright. I'll start my own thread tonight and stop hijacking yours.

I forgot to mention, it's Live Aquaria, Diver's Den, inverts section. I just checked, they have 'em.

Found it. Thanks!

Reefs2go.com also carries them, but they're out right now. Plus they're pricier than LA. Live-plants.com is another source, and they're macros are great.

I inquired at Gulf Coast Ecosystems (live-plants.com) and the owner indicated that he hadn't collected any seagrass recently because the beds weren't healthy enough to produce enough of the viable dislodged shoots that he collects (once they've washed away from the bed). He attributed the situation to algal blooms.

I am assuming you're doing a caribbean biotope, since you got caribbean rock, right?

Right.

What are your tank's dimensions?

30"×30"×24"

Are you curing your rock in-tank? If so, I'd advise protein skimming, lots of water movement, water changes and more time to complete the nitrogen cycle. It may get mucky for awhile, but you'll be seeding your sand with live stuff too.

I am curing it in-tank. The main idea there is that it gives me the best chance for seeding the sand well. I deliberately got a bit more rock than I anticipate using. I wanted to improve my odds of getting good "stuff" on it and give myself some ability to choose the pieces that work best. Once it's fully cured, I'll probably unload 30-40% of the 60 lbs I got.

No skimmer. I want the organics to break down and feed the bacteria (and whatever else). There will be lots of plants in here; so I'm not worried about accumulating nitrate and phosphate at this point.

The return pump from the sump is an Eheim Compact+ 5000, which is overpowered for the overflow on this tank. I've had to dial it back quite a bit; but there's still a fair amount of water flowing through the system. It's providing all the water movement at the moment.

I'd like a somewhat-gentle wavemaker. I need to investigate my options there more; but I'm wondering if a couple of Vortech MP10s pulsing simultaneously on one side of the tank would achieve what I'm after. The new Gyre pump looks intriguing, too.

I did a 10% water change three nights ago. I may do another one tonight depending on how things look. The night before last it was looking like my ammonia level may have peaked and the nitrite was starting to pick up. I didn't have a chance to test last night; but I'll see how things look tonight.

At this point, even after stirring things up, the water clears within a couple of hours. I'm using felt filter socks on the overflow output; but aside from that, the only "filtration" is a block of reticulated foam in the sump. Once things stabilize, I intend to discontinue use of the filter socks to keep things as plankton-friendly as possible.

Any particular fish, inverts, etc?

I'll leave most of that to the new thread; but for the most part I'm kind of open-ended about livestock. There will probably be horses. And there will definitely be a blenny or two.

[Michael Hoaster]

Sounds awesome! I'm impressed. I look forward to more. Post a link to your thread here!

So stoked to have another member at the party! And a no-skimmer guy to boot!

Is it 24" high or front to back?

[braden]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

Sounds awesome! I'm impressed. I look forward to more. Post a link to your thread here!

Thanks!

Last night proved to be too busy; but I did manage to take a couple of pictures. Here's the thread: braden's Caribbean seagrass/mangrove aquarium

So stoked to have another member at the party! And a no-skimmer guy to boot!

Indeed; it's good to see other people trying their hand at this sort of tank. 20-some years ago, the idea of keeping seagrass was more-or-less unheard of. In fact, sand beds in general were so poorly understood that the prevailing notion was to eliminate them entirely.

I'm by no means opposed to skimmers in general; I can't imagine running a reef tank without one. But for what I'm trying to do with this tank, I think they might actually be counterproductive.

I could be dead wrong. If I wind up overrun with nuisance algae and cyanobacteria, I'll add one. But I'd like to test the notion that the desirable plant life in this tank will render a skimmer unnecessary. (I have also considered the possibility that I might need a skimmer when the tank is young, before much of the plant life has had a chance to establish itself. We'll see.)

Is it 24" high or front to back?

That's the height.

[Michael Hoaster]

You and I have the same view of skimmers-not really needed for this kind of tank. I'm in that nuisance algae/cyano phase right now. I'm more tempted to bring in an army of cleaners than a skimmer. But I don't want to get more than I need when algae settles down.

I've been researching caribbean blennies to add next, but I'm also trying to take into account an herbivorous fish I'll add later-the blue tang. I suspect the tang will take care of most algae on the fake wall, so I may forgo a blenny altogether. Meanwhile, I've got algae that needs attention now. It's a bit of a quandary. I'd add the tang now, but it's too aggressive to add before the smaller, more timid fish I have planned.

Maybe I'll add more cerith snails and a fighting conch to bridge the gap. And maybe I can get away with moving the tang up the introduction list a little.

[Michael Hoaster]

Got a fighting conch today. Surprisingly, they had one at my LFS. I did a long drip acclimation. I like this method, as you don't have to do anything once you have the drip rate right.

With this guy in place, along with the cerith snails and mollies, I feel like I may have the substrate covered, for algae control. Time will tell!

[Michael Hoaster]

The new conch didn't move all day yesterday, so I was worried. Finally, I moved her close to the front glass, so I could better observe. I watched and watched. Just when I thought she was dead, I began seeing eye stalks emerge. So she's OK! Whew, what a relief! Now she's doing her thing, methodically cleaning the sandbed. Yay!

[sam.basye]

Conchs are weird but a great addition to any tank!

Before my giant horse conchs killed it... It would roam around most of the time, but occasionally it would bury its self for a day or so with its little eyes peaking through the sand.

Finally finished the foam wall! Decided to silicone the edges and cut teeth into the overflow for the built in fugeish thing. Lol Put the sand in and have RO water on hand. Gonna let it sit a few more days before I fill it... Oh and have to make the stand extension prior to filling.

How's the cycle going for the biotope??

--> I used the contact cement and when I had the wall out, I noticed the back side of the foam wall had a few brown discolorations on the glossy black dry foam from sitting.

[Michael Hoaster]

Yes, conchs are interesting characters. With those eyes and mouth/trunk! And they stay on the sand. For my sandbed, which has course sand and shells on top, conchs are a better choice than cucumbers, I think.

I'm at five and a half weeks, so the cycle is likely winding down. I've noticed the algae isn't coming back as strong after cleaning as it did before, so that's a good sign. I should look through my test kits, and give it a test.

Sounds like you're about ready to fill 'er up! Did you do your fake wall like mine, with sand and no rocks? How are you securing it to prevent floating? I'd love to see pics. Are you going to post a build thread? What fish, plants, inverts are you planning? I'd love to hear more!

[sam.basye]

I'd like to start filling it Thursday. That gives me a little more time for the little bit of foam I resprayed to cure.

I started with ziptied rocks too the eggcrate - lots of different angles with the eggcrate too. Then foamed around it and pressed the air out. I sprinkled crushed lace rock for round one but it didn't really stick so I glued beach sand to it with contact cement. I took chunks of foam off that looked unnatural, but didn't sand anything. I had the break the wall in half to get it in and I reformed the seam this past weekend. I sealed the edges with silicone to prevent snappy from escaping into the fuge. Lol
It's a pretty tight fit and the silicone should keep it from floating.

My only concern as of now is that usually nothing ever works when I try to create something the first time... The overflow concept and the hob filter return make me nervous - very narrow gap between foam ledge and lid - may have to remove more foam.

The plan is to let it run with RO water for 2 weeks then add salt and start to cycle the tank until the first week of Jan. That gives me about 6 weeks for the cycle to do its thing.

As for a build thread.... I don't know if I want to be held to the standards that I'm holing you to. Haha I'm considering it though

Snappy and my green chromis + 2 diff hermits and mithrrax crab will be relocated to the new tank. In addition to my numerous little frags. I want a tailspot blenny and to eventually breed a pair of clowns to try and fund my hobby lol some more snails and hermits and another chromis or two. A conch - getting rid of myth two horse conchs and whelk.

Will post pics later today.

[Michael Hoaster]

I know what you mean about stuff not working the first time. I was just saying to Karim the other day, how it's nearly impossible to take everything into account, in the planning stages. So, you build it, see how it works, then modify/rebuild to finish. The trick is to have the fortitude/gumption to do it again! If I never have to fool with foam walls again, I'll die happy. I really could/should redo my overflow and foam covering…

I know what you mean about starting a thread too! It doesn't have to be fancy, just yours. And discussion leads to new ideas, especially with all the great people on RC.

Breeding clownfish would be very cool. From what I've read, the cardinals are even easier to breed than clowns, but they're kind of boring, in my opinion.

I look forward to the pics!

[sam.basye]

Yeah I know it, I didn't have any gloves this go around and it lasted about 3 days on my fingers. Lol

I'm more excited about it now its nearing completion! The built in fuge is one of them 'shoot in the dark with your eyes closed and hope you didn't shoot yourself' kinda experiments. :P

Planning on putting rubble rock in it with chaetomorpha in there.. <--- Does it float??

Been thinking of hollowing the light housing it came with and hiding my orbit marine led and putting a fan on it... We'll see.

I might make a thread when I start stocking it. That way its less boring of a thread. Hopefully I don't embarrass myself by killing everything . haha

The fiancée thinks cardinals are weird looking so that's out. Lol

[Michael Hoaster]

Keep in mind, a lot of people find the pre-stocking, build part very interesting. Now that my tank is up and running, interest seems to be waning a bit. I'm just watching the grass grow…

Losing fish is a bummer, but let's face it, we've all killed fish! I used the 'embarrassment factor' to motivate me through those hellish DIY projects!

So, you're doing a refugium in the overflow, like me? I look forward to seeing how it works for you. I've yet to check mine for pods, but the ulva and chaeto are doing very well, and I like the look too. Yep, it floats.

Pics?