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Unread 06/13/2019, 06:59 PM   #1
CTaylor
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Ritteri losing tentacles

Hi
My ritteris are currently in treatment with cipro. THey seemed to be slowly getting better. It's been since this past Saturday night (from what i read they should be better by now, they are not). But they are losing there tentacles along with 'poop'. There are black spots in the balls of mess that accumulates as well. This seemed to really start happening on Tuesday, when they got a new tennant of my sick sebae (lucky me). The sebae was fine until a few days after I put the ritteri's in DT, by the way.

I ended up disposing of the sebae -- it was just disintigrating. But it seems since then is when the ritt's have been losing tentcales in these little balls. I believe they are tentacles, b/c there are little defleated tubes with yellow tips wrapped up in the balls of excretion. I think it basically means the ritts are on the way out (?) ... What can I do, if anything?

TY!


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Unread 06/13/2019, 07:01 PM   #2
Led reef
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Cipro


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Unread 06/13/2019, 07:03 PM   #3
CTaylor
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Cipro


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Yes cipro is what they are being treated with


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Unread 06/13/2019, 07:14 PM   #4
ThRoewer
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Continue treatment and water changes. The anemone in the picture doesn't look too bad actually.


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Unread 06/13/2019, 07:17 PM   #5
CTaylor
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Thanks TheR ..
It doesnt on a pic on its own, but knowing that the loss of tentacles seems to be increasing now.. and i see overall they are both looking worse day by day. With that context, to me (as a non expert) it doesn't look too good. But I will continue .. but I have a feelling they will fall apart in the next 2 days, just a feeling, and based on the acceleration of the tentacle loss, and less healthy daily.


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Unread 06/13/2019, 07:22 PM   #6
ThRoewer
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I kind of doubt those are actually tentacles. More likely those are mesenterial filaments.
Try taking a close-up picture of those expelled tentacles.

Also, I would be careful to buy from saltwaterfish.com any time soon again.


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3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

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Unread 06/13/2019, 07:23 PM   #7
CTaylor
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Originally Posted by ThRoewer View Post
I kind of doubt those are actually tentacles. More likely those are mesenterial filaments.
Try taking a close-up picture of those expelled tentacles.

Also, I would be careful to buy from saltwaterfish.com any time soon again.
I will when I get back home.. but they have the yellow tips on them just like the tentacles.. and there actually seem to be less tentacles on the nem.. now nems since #2 is shedding them also.


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Unread 06/13/2019, 08:15 PM   #8
ThRoewer
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I have never seen anemones shedding tentacles. They may reduce them in size and length, but why would they toss them?
I've only seen fish tearing tentacles off or tentacles being cut off by the sharp edges of planter basket holes.

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3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

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Unread 06/15/2019, 03:56 AM   #9
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I once had a banded coral shrimp that used to snip / rip off anemone tentacles with it's claws.


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Unread 06/15/2019, 10:52 PM   #10
Small Heavens
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Your animals are dying from allelopathy.


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Unread 06/15/2019, 10:53 PM   #11
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Don't waste anymore medicine this way.


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Unread 06/16/2019, 02:02 AM   #12
Small Heavens
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Anemones with longer tentacles does not act as the carpet Nems, in as much as they need a lot more time to rearrange their internal structure each time they are moved.

If it is eating its own tentacles, most likely cause would be getting so little lighting that the Nem needs emergency feedings to get energy enough to move and recover in general.

If you look at humans in a microscope, we have bacteria everywhere but if we are dead and covered in bacteria, it does not mean bacteria killed us. The same rule does apply with anemones, the fact that they will have lots of bacteria going on in and on them, does not mean that this bacteria is lethal for them.

Throwing medicine bombs after everything, makes a cover up for the fact that a Nem with long tentacles can take a good amount of time feeling up the water and then pulling in all of its disc to rearrange.

Remember that time and observation is your best way to learn what is really going on with it.

If one person say they just put the Nem in their tank and it looked perfect ever since, might just not have been looking at the tank when the Nem had enough impression of its surroundings to re-cast its entire tentacle- and disc-tissue structure.

They do work slightly like a tiny tiny fisherman with the most HUGE net.

Give your Nem -time- to fold OUT its skirt, not medicine that will disrupt it's natural bacterial growth.


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Unread 06/16/2019, 02:38 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Small Heavens View Post
Anemones with longer tentacles does not act as the carpet Nems, in as much as they need a lot more time to rearrange their internal structure each time they are moved.

If it is eating its own tentacles, most likely cause would be getting so little lighting that the Nem needs emergency feedings to get energy enough to move and recover in general.

If you look at humans in a microscope, we have bacteria everywhere but if we are dead and covered in bacteria, it does not mean bacteria killed us. The same rule does apply with anemones, the fact that they will have lots of bacteria going on in and on them, does not mean that this bacteria is lethal for them.

Throwing medicine bombs after everything, makes a cover up for the fact that a Nem with long tentacles can take a good amount of time feeling up the water and then pulling in all of its disc to rearrange.

Remember that time and observation is your best way to learn what is really going on with it.

If one person say they just put the Nem in their tank and it looked perfect ever since, might just not have been looking at the tank when the Nem had enough impression of its surroundings to re-cast its entire tentacle- and disc-tissue structure.

They do work slightly like a tiny tiny fisherman with the most HUGE net.

Give your Nem -time- to fold OUT its skirt, not medicine that will disrupt it's natural bacterial growth.
Do you actually have any idea of the things you are talking about or are you just babbling nonsense?

If an anemone is sick it needs treatment or it will die!
I've tried it without treatment often enough and even under ideal conditions, the outcome was always a slimy blob at the bottom of the tank.
With treatment, however, I saved a good number of anemones.


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Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
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Unread 06/16/2019, 06:28 AM   #14
Small Heavens
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Anemones make their own antibiotics, Nems with longer tentacles needs supervision. If your Nem is trying to readjust the massive skirts to a new location, they will deflate and reinflate a lot.

During this phase, monitor them closely and MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A LIGHTING SOURCE THAT YOU CAN DIM AND RAISE easily.

If the Nem deflates so badly that it can suffer oxygen depletion in the tentacles (which will start the Nem rotting in less time than you would think) you have to HELP the Nem stir. Raise the blue light to force the Nem into inflation reaction and lower the light again before it becomes too strong and the Nem retracts again.

If you can (find the time) guard the Nem for something like 2-3 month with the kind of attention, you can continue to provoke reactions from your Nems with the light.

Your aim is to make sure the Nem does not suffer oxygen depletion inside tentacles or other narrow points.

While it tries to change its metabolism, it runs the risk of not having energy to rearrange its skirts and because they deflate, end up starting a rotting process that will be too much for its natural antibiotics, because it is like gangrene in multiple tentacles.

Either way, remember that it is a tiny fisher with a HUGE skirt.
It takes time to fold all of it in and out and your Nem will do this, over days while figuring out where the new flow is at etc. All you have to do, is make sure, it does not tip over and land on its mouth so it cannot draw in fresh water, or, that it is not allowed to have deflated tentacles for more than a few minutes at a time.

As said, this can be simply achieved if you install something that makes it possible for you to raise and lower lights easily, such as using the old eegcrate trick or a dimmable LED.

Nems are just...best kept in dedicated specimen tanks my friend.

Good luck and enjoy.


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Unread 06/16/2019, 10:27 AM   #15
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Ps. And I apologise if you felt offended, I did not intend that, treating an anemone with antibiotics is just similar to treating a garlic with an antifungal ointment and I actually thought it was kinda funny
Anyway, don't repeat something out of habit, the Anemones do need your expertise so remember that your observations is your strongest strength - you really will not learn how anemones behave before you keep them, nothing you do is wasted if you learn from it.

Anemones are under strong scrutiny because they might be the "light" in antibiotic treatment now that other types are becoming less useful - I am just saying that you should never use antibiotics lightly, like "prevention" or "on suspicion" and especially not on Anemones because ..well because of the same reasons as treating your garlic with antifungal ointment might be considered alittle eccentric of you to do
As I said, I wish you all the best and especially so because you are trying to make a good effort for marine lifeforms.


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Unread 06/16/2019, 10:44 PM   #16
OrionN
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Small Heavens,
What you wrote are pure nonsense.


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Unread 06/17/2019, 01:25 AM   #17
Small Heavens
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Minh, there is more to life, than rich guys bragging

Using a antibiotic that treats both gram positive and gram negative means this person is using medicines on superstitious foundation and not scientific.

And if you expose cnidaria life for allelopathy, and tell about it online, you should handle criticism better, obviously other people are not happy to see your pets live in poison.

After MOVING any Anemones with longer tentacles, they need to rearrange their entire skirt.

You really just need to make sure it gets some light change so it REACTS so it's tentacles does not get stuck in its mouth while you are out working to earn all that money you spend on antibiotics XD

Make sure that you use TIME to observe your expensive tanks - buying big and having no time for observation is giving many reefers sad days that could have been avoided. Now stop rubbing antifungal ointments on garlic, at least until you get real science telling you that the anemone suffers from something other than what's obvious.


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Unread 06/17/2019, 05:20 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Small Heavens View Post
Anemones make their own antibiotics,
What scientific evidence do you have to support this?


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Unread 06/17/2019, 06:15 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Small Heavens View Post
.......

And if you expose cnidaria life for allelopathy, and tell about it online, you should handle criticism better, obviously other people are not happy to see your pets live in poison.

After MOVING any Anemones with longer tentacles, they need to rearrange their entire skirt.

......
The only reason I got into this discussion is to save some new reefers from trying to understand and follow your nonsense and kill their anemones, or get confused, reading about your pseudo science (I am not even sure this is what I can call what you wrote) about how to care for their anemone.
I am certainly not bother by what you wrote, or take anything you wrote personally.

In this age of the internet, anybody and write whatever on the internet, it is sometime difficult for newbies to separate the Goods from the Bads and the Uglies. I guess if someone, even as a newbie, cannot tell that what you wrote is not worth the time they spend reading it, then they highly unlikely going to be a successful reefer. Any intensive helps from any experienced reefers here would unlikely to make a great different in their ability to care for their reef.

After all, it really take a reasonably intelligent person (plus a little money and other qualities) to keep a healthy, successful reef.


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Unread 06/17/2019, 06:32 AM   #20
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What allelopathy? These anemones have been together for years, not months
Gigantea-Gigantea


Gigantea-Magnifica



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Minh

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Current Tank Info: Reboot 320 anemones reef. Angels: Yellow Chest Regal(2), Flame (2). Copperband But. Tangs: Yellow, Purple. Wrasse: about 20 wrasses various species. Anemones: Giantea X4 (Breen, Blue, Purple and Multicolors), Haddoni X1 Red, Magnifica X1 Purpletip

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Unread 06/17/2019, 09:33 AM   #21
ThRoewer
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What scientific evidence do you have to support this?
They actually do, and there is a lot of research done on this.
But that doesn't mean that anemones can cure themselves when sick.
Anyone who actually has experience with anemones knows that once an anemone's defenses are overwhelmed by a pathogen it won't be able to cure itself and needs help in form of antibiotics treatment. If you do nothing the anemone will certainly die.

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3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
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Unread 06/17/2019, 11:57 AM   #22
Small Heavens
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Hi again guys

Y'all are ignoring the allelopathy because you want to create what you want to see, isn't that right?

Minh, your specimens are wonderful and if you had a more beneficial social understanding you would get more recognition but you are too arrogant and I don't intend to endorse that. I am happily retired, globally among the 3% riches and living in denmark, having huge tanks is actually not that uncommon here. I just don't have any need to keep a large tank, so I do not care to comment much because I know many of you here will have nothing to say to me but LARGE TANK IS REX (lol what do you think is actually causing all those instability crashes that you fear so?).

Listen ThRoewer, you might have treated Nems and seen them recover but guessing that it was then your treatment working, that is not knowledge that is [your guess is as good as mine].

No antibiotics is approved by the FDA for ornamental marine trade, so you getting all in my face about how it factually helps anything here, is somewhat over the top. Anything sold directly as antibiotics to ornamental marine trade, might actually just be fake, the FDA reminds you to be aware of that as well.

Anemones are highly antifungal and antibiotic in themselves and they, have, beneficial bacteria, on them.

The clownfishes that gets to mix their slimecoat with wild nems, transfer these beneficial bacteria to their own body cultures and this makes them ..better...at...combatting... bad..bacteria...

Guys, when you give Nems antibiotics, you do realise that you are killing its own bacteria as well, RIGHT?

Ah well, to people who are reading and not necessarily ready to bomb every deflated tentacle with antibiotics just yet; newly moved Nems take their time, like putting up a tent in a new location. Somebody just took their tent from where it WAS and nobody pulled down their tent for them, so they gotta do it all themselves and put it back up again so it fits the new water flow and it takes time. Try to make sure that you have time to keep the Nem under observation and adjust the light to provoke a response if the Nem deflates so much that there is no water left in the tentacles and it does not refresh water within a few minutes.

The trick is, all it takes is a few minutes before the rotting sets in. If you all go to work while dosing these things, you might arrest development of bacteria that would have otherwise killed the Anemone but you then only needed to do so because you try to tend to something by not being there to actually tend to it.




~ regarding the allelopathy....

Let's say, a human lived for YEARS in a coal mine, deep deep down. Fine, great, good for you, you are doing something right. On the other hand, you don't need to keep your pets in poison soups, even with aggressive skimming, and anybody have the right to feel and express that. I just did and I am sorry if I offended anybody but I do mean to encourage y'all to start up on a treatment line that is more focused on stressfree environments and time, than on using antibiotics as precaution.



Last edited by Small Heavens; 06/17/2019 at 12:16 PM.
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Unread 06/17/2019, 12:06 PM   #23
Small Heavens
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Ps. They can get so exhausted, that tentacles "hang" into the mouth, when the mouth then moves, it "cuts" of its own tentacles like a scissor. If you haven't given it food, feeding it something very small, I suggest flushing the tank with copepods, rotifers + phytoplankton, might help prevent the tentacle damage by upping the energy it gets each day to reassess its tent's situation



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Unread 06/17/2019, 12:25 PM   #24
ThRoewer
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Do actually have or ever had a reef tank and anemones?

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Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
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Unread 06/17/2019, 12:56 PM   #25
Small Heavens
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You didn't answer my question, a "Display Tank" is mostly unnatural environments full of what their owners want to see ThRoewer

I keep 1LTA and 2Polymnus of the Polynesia type, you know, as my profile say "specimen tank" = 1anemone, 1host pair.


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