S. gigantea zoo transplant?

[skyrne_isk]

Well I thought I would dig this old thread up and give it an update. With respect to the initiative to color up the blue carpet, I would have to call it a success. Take a look for yourself. I am also including a pic of the donor carpet, as both are in the same system and doing well.

Here's the recipient (as of today):



Here's the donor:



I would not hesitate to do this again to another species or to help out another aquarist. The transplant process is a relatively low-risk, high reward strategy to address bleached anemones. I have been feeding (more like once per week) frozen krill and other assorted commercial preparations. As many have mentioned here and elsewhere, the big issue is making that first week or two with these carpets. Most that come in bleached and deflated are likely done for. If the carpet will eat (and I mean complete the feeding process) you have a good shot. Just to note that placing food directly on the mouth after stimulating the tentacles with food can help a weak carpet coordinate its ingestion. The mouth will start to swell and become sticky after placing food in its tentacles and allow for a second food item to placed where it is easier to ingest. I have noted that sometimes these carpets come in with enough vigor to snag food - but not enough strength to finish the process.

[Blitzburggirl]

Very interesting... admittedly I started reading this thread because I was stalking you (trying to find the clown thread you referenced in your giga sale thread.) Thank you for such an interesting write up!

[skyrne_isk]

Disaster strikes ......details to follow.

[Saltwaternooby]

Did it get smashed?

[skyrne_isk]

Originally Posted by Saltwaternooby

Did it get smashed?

Worse.

I am in the middle of a tank upgrade, so a couple weeks ago, everything got moved into a kiddie pool (that now is setting on my living room floor ) that's about 150G. I added a little bit of kalk Wed night since the CA reactor isn't exactly dialed in and the pH went to 8.6 for an hour or so.

I knew it would try to move, it always wants to if I overdose kalk (even when I balance the pH back w vinegar). The green one has always been the one to move, never the others and sure enough when I woke up yesterday morning it had crawled INTO the maxi mod that is being used for circulation. This is incredible since I have pieces of acrylic/glass set up as baffles of sorts to box it in. I have had nems get on the wrong end of a PH, but never this bad. The carpet had both sides get caught....usually it has just been one edge. It had essentially all its tentacles sheared off on around 1/5 of the oral disk. The only thing keeping this carpet alive is that its mouth and foot were untouched.

I have come this far with this carpet, I am going down swinging. For now, it will still eat. I fed it yesterday twice and this morning once. My skimmer had about two ounces of tentacles in it the morning I found it bound up in the pump. It's stomach was everted and it was completely wound into the PH. I unplugged and let it work itself out of it throughout Wed. Fed it Thursday morning a single piece of krill and krill and mysis Thursday night. It had its stomach everted late Thurs night, but may just have been expelling food. Fed it again this morning and again when I came home (small meals, all of them).

Good news is that none of the damage goes through the oral disk, and there are no tears all the way through anything. Bad news is opposite sides are impacted, so it is having a tough time folding the damaged areas inward (which IME is how injured spots are healed).

So for now, it's regular feedings to help provide nourishment and pray for no bacterial/fungal infections. Updated pics from today I will post tonight.

Here's yesterday at this time.

[clowns101]

To be honest he looks pretty good for being sucked up.I think given the right conditions he will pull through if done right though.

[skyrne_isk]

Originally Posted by clowns101

To be honest he looks pretty good for being sucked up.I think given the right conditions he will pull through if done right though.

Well that's good to hear....at least someone has seen worse. I've never seen a gig take serious physical trauma and make it. Plenty of BTAs and the like, but not carpets. Tonight it is doing the whole swell up huge with water thing, which is certainly something I have noticed they do when stressed pretty good. Also, it definited has spit up what it has been fed.....not sure how much was actually digested (some at least siince it was unrecognizable from the food that went in). Bad news is that there IS a spot where the interior tissues are exposed...maybe a nickel in size on the edge of the oral disk. Hopefully this expansion is part of the healing process and it will go back down to a normal size tomorrow morning. The foot is still attached, which I am thrilled with.

Anyone have any opinion on whether feedings are helpful here or should I let it ride for a couple days? Note that I have removed the clowns from it and they are in another carpet.

[skyrne_isk]

Update:

So after the carpet survived being sucked into a maximod 1200 ten months ago, it grew to around 15" before I pulled all my SPS out of the tank to treat for AEFW. During the move, I put ONE maximod 1200 into the tank without gutter gaurd affixed to the intake (this was the fix I implemented after this last little incident of fun) to keep things going while I soaked the two I still have in vinegar.

Wouldn't you know I would come home to find the pump choking on green carpet anemone. So much carpet was shredded the water turned green. This was so bad the mouth got tore up and there was so much tissue sucked into the gaurd that I had to break out some bone shears to cut the gaurd away. I wish I had taken some photos of how completely the carpet clogged the gaurd and pulled it through the slots on the intake, but it wasn't my first thought at the time.

Keeping my fingers crossed. Taking pics by day. I would say half the tissue was lost on a 15" monster.

The damage:


The mouth:




The white areas are where the damage is worst. There appears to be a matrix of tissue underlying the tentacles that is like mesh:


At night about five hours after I caught it:



I will keep posting daily progress shots.

What do you guys think?

[skyrne_isk]

A couple more, worse than last time for sure.

[WDLV]

Eeeeek! Not good that the mouth was damaged.

[this is me]

Damn! I'm heart broken to see this! Hope it recovers quickly.

[skyrne_isk]

Thanks Walt and Nick, a bummer of a day for sure. I probably took a 1/2 cup full of anemone and tentacles out of the filter sock (which was also green) and about the same out of the skimmer. The entire house reeked of anemone, even my wife noticed. The whole green filter sock would have been comical with St Pattys day had it not been such a sad and aggravating situation. Oh, I also changed about 12 oz of carbon and within a couple hours the water was clear. I am avoiding my weekly water change to keep stress down, btw.

I gave it a few pieces of mysis, which it actually ate. Which I took as a good sign until I came back an hour or so later to see food pellets spit out on the sand. Probably would never had noticed had the current not been turned down.....usually these would have been blown away.


So at this point I am going to keep a log of sorts, live or die, just to document for others. If you haven't caught the point, cover your power heads. I would go with no flow during maintenance over uncovered flow.

As I mentioned earlier, the last time this happened it caught the edge of the oral disk about 1/3 of the circumference and it was eating again within 48 hours. I did NOT intervene in the last incident, I simply took the gaurd off the pump and let the anemone pull itself out.

This time, I tried the same, but after an hour of no improvement I took the steps to cut the gaurd away from the anemone so it could then wind itself out. I thought about excising the tissue inside the gaurd that was pulled through into a ball of sorts with an exacto knife but bet against it.

It turns out it probably wouldn't have mattered. Unless the anemone is infected bacterially and rotting, it seems the recovery process includes sloughing off badly damaged tissue.....almost like shedding. One thing I noticed this morning is little pieces white tissue from the worst areas falling off the carpet. I think this is like what a human body does when burned.

So in general I would agree not to pull an anemone out of something it's caught in. Especially if it is pulled through but not abraided. If the tissue is intact leave it. Otherwise, I think you are good to cut off the bad tissue with a sharp blade (excepting for the tissue on the column/foot including the mouth because it doesn't look like anemones are designed to repair, rather replace (that's why the mouth has me doubly worried......). The ONLY saving grace here is that the foot is completely untouched so it is attached.

About 24 hours after the incident (day 2)


Still some eversion with the mouth.....can be seen in this shot.




Wish I took pics of the white tissue shedding, guess you guys will have to take my description.

Hope this is informative, someone will be here again some day (maybe even me, cripes).

Any input is always appreciated.

[BonsaiNut]

Healthy anemones have an amazing ability to recover from wounds to their exteriors - as long as they don't pick up secondary infections.

This should not be confused with an anemone's ability to recover from being cut in half, which is poor to non-existent depending on the species. (Sorry had to toss that in there)

[skyrne_isk]

Originally Posted by BonsaiNut

This should not be confused with an anemone's ability to recover from being cut in half, which is poor to non-existent depending on the species. (Sorry had to toss that in there)

No worries, I concur on that point.

But if these pictures are any indication of the progress, I am going to agree with this one as well:

Originally Posted by BonsaiNut

Healthy anemones have an amazing ability to recover from wounds to their exteriors - as long as they don't pick up secondary infections.

These carpets, while extremely touchy on their importation, appear freakishly able to recover. I did not expect the progress to be good, but it is already eating and appears to have closed up the damaged areas of tissue. Simply amazing. Though probably shouldn't be given how easily their tentacles detach when touch with an ungloved hand, etc.


You can really see the repaired tissue here, the nub tentacles are already emerging from the oral disk that was frayed 48 hours earlier:


And here:


Some of the damage to the interior:


This really gives you a feel for how much tissue is gone, remember the anemone used to be round.....it is not for the time being.


Will keep updates coming. (fingers crossed)

[Tron87]

woah

[D-Nak]

Sorry to drag up an old thread, but this is intense! I read the entire thread and now I feel like I'm watching a soap opera (no, I don't normally watch them, though I've been stuck with the wife and the TV on) and the main character is in the hospital bed, and right when we're about to find out what happens... the DVR stops recording.

How's the nem???

[skyrne_isk]

The glass needs cleaned and the shot is foggy, but here is the carpet as of today. How cool are these animals? Was looking at the photos of the carnage on the computer today doing some cleanup and thought I would update. I have to admit I was skeptical it would make it but here we are.

[garygb]

Very encouraging. So glad to see it's doing fine after such a disaster.

[OrionN]

Chew up twice and survived. How is your blue one?

[skyrne_isk]

Still kicking, Minh. Odd thing is, in all this time the blue one has never moved, not once. Go figure.

Here it is (iPhone pics, not too good):






My yellow gig is doing fine as well (and made it fine through a move to the office tank to boot).




I have had a pretty good run of it, though I find the dirtier water they seem to like makes it harder to keep SPS.

[Greg 45]

When you say dirty water please explane.
I have no luck with giganteas
I thought they need water similar to sps

[Cheebs]

My gignatea also preffers "dirtier water". In other words, no necessarily pristine, a bit of nitrate and all that jazz. Here's mine: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1841543

[skyrne_isk]

Originally Posted by Greg 45

When you say dirty water please explane.
I have no luck with giganteas
I thought they need water similar to sps

I have noticed that when I drive phosphates and nitrates so low that there is no nuisance algae/cyano present the carpets tend to exhibit stress-like behaviors from time to time - ie. no full extension all day, every day. This full/turgid posture is what healthy gig keepers come to expect. They are not like BTAs, with the deflation/inflation occuring often and for little/no reason. A lack of full inflation for almost any reason is cause for concern. Others mileage may vary on keeping a "dirty" tank but I have found the most growth and most healthy behavior (meaning close to wild photographs) occurred in tanks where algae could and would grow with the nem.

Those who have gone diving or observed in tidal pools, etc can chime in that the water these guys are often found in is silty and much different than the reef crest / fore reef.

I believe that the high nutrient conditions that cause brown SPS (and are thus avoided by SPS keepers) keep zoo populations healthy in gigs. This is not to say healthy gigs cannot be kept ULNS or with a healthy-colored SPS tank, however. I am sure there are those who could show it can be done, and well.

These are all taken from systems with gigs and SPS:



Here's about the six month mark - notice how pale the blue carpet had gotten and how dark green the big coral in the back is:



Notice how the same big green coral is now more yellow about a year later when I pulled it out b/c it was taking over, while not in the pic the blue carpet was now basically the purple color it is now that I posted above:



While I am on it, have found that carbon dosing AND bacteria dosing can absolutely cause negative reactions in gigs (I will spare the story for now, but my Microbacter 7 experiment was nail-biting for the first 72 hours or so). I have seen others report no issues on their nems, but rest assured I have found bacterial changes in the water column to have profound impact on the nems behavior - likely while they adjusted to the new resulting phosphate/nitrate conditions or the bacteria themselves.

I have had to come to a compromise between colorful corals and happy gigs - and it all came down to how clean my water was kept.

HTH!

[skyrne_isk]

Wow. Almost three years, huh? Doing another transplant on a purple/blue. A little bigger tank at the moment leaves me with more room. The "original two" and the yellow gig in the office tank are all going strong. Will post update pics of the original two later on.

Here's the latest addition:
Pretty bleached, still over-inflated, no eating, and generally displaying stressed behavior still. I will post some daily progress to see how it is getting on. One thing that is nice is that I don't have any desire to make "adjustments" to the tank like I might have in the "old days" with the stress posture of the new gig. When you have two other healthy and happy tanks in a hundreds of gallons of water it's a lot easier to know the stress of the new addition isn't due to adverse conditions in the tank.

[skyrne_isk]

A closer shot during acclimation.


An overly-turgid stress position that has me worried. Would be a clear sign off problems if the gig was not new. See how the tentacles really look closer to S. haddoni as they are noticeably in rows? Not normal for this species.

Although waves or folds in the oral disk are not a sign of problems per-se, this carpet isn't really attaching or digging in with its foot. 24 hours in, who knows.