DIY Icecap...its not what you think - Page 3

2hi4u2c · 01/14/2002, 10:12 PM

Hey guys,
In theory a 24" bulb driven by a 4' ballast would be overdriven...Am I correct in this assumption???
Alan

reefburnaby · 01/15/2002, 12:04 AM

Hi,

Dan.

One of the most optimum specular reflector shapes is a M shape. It actually looks like the McDonald's golden arches. In otherwords, if you want a shiny reflector, one of the best shapes is a M shape. But, it is pretty hard to bend a piece of sheet metal in to a complex shape with precision angles, like the golden arches, and not put any scratches on the shiny refector. Your best bet is to make a U shaped reflector and paint it white or sky blue. A white reflector will reflect white light in to the tank while a sky blue reflector will reflect only light that is similar to sky blue (sort of actinic..not quite...but if you like a bluer tank...sky blue is slightly better). You can also design the reflector to prevent light from spilling on to the sides of the tank, the hood and the carpet.

Alan,

Driving a 24" bulb with a 48" ballast would not be considered overdriving - if an electronic ballast was used. The 24", 36" and 48" have similar lamp current specifications. Lamp current is like say the amount of GPH you are running through a tube in plumbing terms. A ballast is like a water flow regulator in plumbing terms -- it controls how much water or current flows through the lamps. Since a 24" blub is twice as long as the 48", the 48" bulb will require the ballast (or the water pump) to pump twice as hard -- but the same amount of current (GPH) must flow through there. Electrically, this means we need more voltage. Mechanically, this means we need more water pressure or PSI. So, most electronic ballasts can drive different lamp lengths by being water flow regulators, but they have the water pressure (voltage) capacity to maintain that water flow regardless of the tube length. Make sense ?

So, if we double drive a bulb with two ballasts, we are essentially running more current (or GPH) through the tubes. Which means...we are overdriving.

Why doesn't a magnetic ballast work ? Well, a magnetic ballast isn't smart enough to maintain a constant current (or GPH) through the bulbs. Think of a magnetic ballast as a sump pump and a bulb as a tube going to your tank. When a longer tube is placed on your sump pump, the GPH slows down...right ? This is precisely what happens with a magnetic ballast. An electronic ballast would pump the same GPH regardless of the length.

It is alright if the magnetic ballast slows down the current flow when a wrong tube is place in it, but what happens if it is too fast. What if it is so fast that it draws more current that it is designed for...then it will burn out.

Hope that helps.

- Victo.

BRW · 01/21/2002, 03:15 PM

I'm having trouble finding anything but 3000K and 4100K NO T8 bulbs at my HD and Lowes locally here in Georgia. I did find the Sylvania 6500K "Deluxe Daylight" T12 bulb at Lowes. What sources have you found for the T8 size in a useable Kelvin? I'm going to build, hopefully, a 4 bulb, 36" T8 overdrive system for my 150 gallon refugium to replace the LOAs I am presently using. Thanks.

afss · 01/21/2002, 05:39 PM

I was able to get 48 inch t8 6500 at HD, but i didn't see any 36" ones

Scott

BRW · 01/21/2002, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by afss
I was able to get 48 inch t8 6500 at HD, but i didn't see any 36" ones. Scott

Scott, Do you have a SKU # for the 48" ones? Do they have a "name" on them like Deluxe Daylight?
Thanks.

2hi4u2c · 01/21/2002, 06:59 PM

Hey all,
T-8s come in 18" & 48" (except aquaria brands) I work at Home Depot for the summer and have checked into all the recources I can find, If anybody else has info otherwise, please post as I would be intrested...

Reefbuenaby,
Sorry for the momentary brain loss, I meant, if you wired them in series, and then used a 2-bulb ballast to light them(still don't know if I comunicated clearly

). I was thinking backwards the 1st post.
Alan

Canadian Man · 01/21/2002, 07:46 PM

well all i must thank you for bringing me the light

hahaha. i have a 90 g reef and i used to have 8 no bulbs.
since reading this post a week ago i have rewired my hood to have 5 no t8's ( the are zoo med bulbs) overdriven. and WOW
it is an amazing diffrence. the zoomed bulbs work wonderfully and i have a friend that works at a shop and when i buy one i get one for free. so $30 dollars canadian for 2 bulbs.
i will post a picture. i currently am using 2 50/50's, 2 10,000k, and one actinic.

they wont let me post the same pictures again so search for this thread and you will see some examples. there is a before shot as well.
(this is what overdriven no look like)

Big Worm · 01/28/2002, 12:09 PM

Was referred to this post by someone on another board.... VERY interesting thread. Hopefully my questions have not already been asked in this thread - I tried to read every reply but I may have missed one or two.

Well, question is... Could I overdrive a 32w CSL PC bulb using a CSL 2 x 55w electronic ballast?

If so, it sounds like I would need to wire the two ends in-line into one of the endcaps. This would then fire the one bulb... is this right or am I completely clueless????

What would the output in wattage/lumens be????

Again, I apologize if this has been asked/answered previously in this thread...

Thanks for the help.

Alex

Big Worm · 01/28/2002, 12:59 PM

Sorry for the 2nd post but I just realized that my 55w CSL ballast is actually two ballast in one enclosure. Each ballast has its own power cord and end cap...

HOW, if possible, would I wire this to overdrive one 32w PC bulb? Could I just wire the two ballasts in-line? Would that increase the wattage/lumens produced by the 32w bulb? Would it significanlty reduce the life of the bulb?

Hope I am not asking a bunch of reduntant questions.

bashcraft · 01/28/2002, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by reefburnaby
Why doesn't a magnetic ballast work ?

In some instances, it does. I've been overdriving 18" and 24" tubes for years by using 2 or 3 coil and cap ballasts wired in parallel. I tried 4 once, but the bulb got hotter than I was comfortable with.

Bob

Big Worm · 01/28/2002, 05:22 PM

Anyone out there that can help. See my questions above.

dattack · 01/28/2002, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Big Worm
Sorry for the 2nd post but I just realized that my 55w CSL ballast is actually two ballast in one enclosure. Each ballast has its own power cord and end cap...

HOW, if possible, would I wire this to overdrive one 32w PC bulb? Could I just wire the two ballasts in-line? Would that increase the wattage/lumens produced by the 32w bulb? Would it significanlty reduce the life of the bulb?

Hope I am not asking a bunch of reduntant questions.

I think that's something people have to try themselves and most wouldn't advise it unless you know the wiring scheme of your ballast and sockets. I have tried it with T8 and T12, but have never tried it with PC to give you any good results.
Like most of the posts in this thread, it's an experiment at your own risk in terms of how much amp you put into your lamp.

StirCrazy · 01/28/2002, 06:45 PM

Big Worm
to do this you wwould have to figure out the arangement of your end caps and see how the tube is actualy fired, as I had not even thought of this I haven't done it yet. I am going to be setting up my PC's with in the month and I will take a look at it then and see if I can figure out the pin arangment for my PC's. NO tubes are easy, 2 power in on one end and 2 ground out on the other.. as for PC's I am not sure at this point of time.

Steve

Big Worm · 01/28/2002, 08:03 PM

Steve,

Thanks for the reply and the input... you brought something that I did even think of. I will have to open the ballast enclosure and check out how the endcaps are wired. Hopefully the wires are color coded and easy to understand. The enclusure is easy to take upart - just 4 screws on the end.

Hopefully there is somene else that will reply and has already done this... that will take the guess work out.

Anyone out there that has actually wired to PC ballast in-line to fire one bulb????

reefburnaby · 01/29/2002, 11:01 AM

Yes.

Actually, the safest way to overdrive a PC is to run only one bulb and leave the other socket unconnected. This will overdrive it by a small amount (like 30% to 20%). I have done this before.

If you want to go further than that, I can give you some pointers.

- Victor.

Big Worm · 01/29/2002, 01:21 PM

Thanks for the reply... you were the one I was hoping would reply since you're the author of this thread.

I definately need whatever pointers you can give me. I have a basic understanding of ballasts and lighting. I've pretty much DIY every lighting system I've had. This project however, is a bit beyond my experience to just try without some help.

Let me explain what I want to do. I am setting up a 7 gal MiniBow Nano. I have a CSL 2 x 55w electronic ballast kit. Actually, it is two seperate 55w ballasts, each w/ an endcap, housed in one enclosure. My plan was to run two 32w CSL bulbs off of this ballast setup. Then I read this thread.

Right now I have one 32w bulb. How could I modify this ballast setup to overdrive the one bulb? How much output would you guestimate I would get with said modification? Do you think I would get more output (lumens) just running the ballast conventionally w/ two 32w bulbs?

Thanks for taking the time to help.

Alex

StirCrazy · 01/29/2002, 07:07 PM

Victor, ok how would I wire a ballast for 2 96watt PC's to run one? do I just double up the wires into one end plug? (this would be the easyist way i can think of)

Steve

Adam · 01/30/2002, 02:21 PM

Reefburnaby,

I don't know if anyone already pointed this out (I didn't read every post), but Icecaps underdrive VHO's by a good amount. The high frequency of the ballast produces almost as much light as a standard VHO ballast running at full wattage.

I think it makes the energy consumption issue moot. In order to be sure, you would have to figure out Lumens/Watt of your system vs. the Icecap running VHOs'

If bulb cost savings are the issue, keep in mine that Icecaps overdrive NO lamps significantly. In fact, NO's on an Icecap are about 90% as bright as VHO's.

I am running 4 F40T12 lamps ($3 from Home Depot) on an Icecap over my refugium, and it works great!! Cheap bulbs and lot's o' light for my lamp and electricity $$'s

Adam

StirCrazy · 01/30/2002, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Adam
I don't know if anyone already pointed this out (I didn't read every post), but Icecaps underdrive VHO's by a good amount. The high frequency of the ballast produces almost as much light as a standard VHO ballast running at full wattage.

Adam

I know the higher frequency will increase the brightness but going from a tar balast to a electronic ballast that DOESN'T underdrive the bulb (both ballast pump the same wattage into the bulb) there is only a 10% increase in light out put (I tested this alread with a light meter), so I find it hard to see that the increase in frequency will make a bulb that is only reciving 67watts seam like it is reciving 110 watts.
do you have any physical proof from tests or anything to back this up? if so I would be interested in reading it as I can't find any comparasons on the net between VHO bulbs in regular VHO ballasts against icecap ballasts. heck IceCap can't even supply me with that info.

a NO bulb in a icecap is over driven ~1.5x the rated power based on a 40 watt 4' tube (this is from Icecaps power consumption claims)
what we are doing is giving results of 2X the power or more for way cheeper. we are using NO bulbs also. just more ballasts. even if I have to use 4 ballasts to run 4 bulbs the ballasts I am using are about 40.00cdn whare a 660 IceCap is 300.00 cdn and that doesent include the wires.

Steve

Blaster · 01/30/2002, 05:49 PM

reefburnaby,are you the guy making the calcium reacters for kinged?

reefburnaby · 01/30/2002, 05:53 PM

Hi,

Overdriving PCs ?

I would not advise overdriving PCs. I have used PCs before and those lamps are hot hot hot - when used in normal drive. So, overdriving PCs would create even more heat. I don't know...but I don t think it is too safe. If you are really still interested...I can provide some tips.

Adam,

Have you seen a tank with proposed overdriven lamps ? I am a little confused since we are also using electronic ballasts and we are also overdriving NOs. The main difference is that we are using off-the-shelf parts while others are using Icecap. I guess the other major difference is the cost.

I can tell that you like your Icecap and it is a good product. We aren't here to close down Icecap. We are here to propose an alternate route and give Icecap a little competition. In some ways, this may work out to Icecap's advantage. This forces them to do more research to improve their product and try to compete with this technology.

I heard that they have a new model out...which is better than the old one. So...the race has started.

And yes...I am almost sure that T8s (which is what we are using) are more efficient that VHOs (which are T12s). VHOs produce about 5000 lumens with 65W and the T8 overdrives produce about 6500 lumens with 80W. So...really...the T8s are a bit more efficient...wouldn't you say ?

- Victor.

Big Worm · 01/30/2002, 06:58 PM

Victor,

Thanks for the input... the nano I was potentially going to put the overdriven PC on is going in my office.... Don't need to be starting any fires at work - literally and figuratively speaking!!!

I will just go w/ my original plan of running two 32w bulbs w/ the 55w ballast kit.

Thanks again.

Sparky · 01/30/2002, 09:51 PM

Super cool thread!

Ive been wishing/longing for a better lighting system. I would like to make the jump from FOWLR to a bonafide Reef Tank.

Problem = COST + space in my canopy

I have a 55 gal. and space is a premium for me. I had decided on 4 VHO tubes and no MH's. Maybe on the next tank.

Now Premium Aquatics sells an IceCap 4 tube 48" 110watt VHO kit (bulbs included) for $331.00. Considering the bulbs alone are worth a $100.00 thats the nessasary hardware for $221.00 give or take a few bucks.

$331.00 / 440 watts = about .75cents per watt for the cost to convert to VHO

You setup appears to be less.

Could you break down the Total cost for your idea?

It looks like in the first post youve spent about $60 for a 4 bulb setup. Is this correct?

As long as the colors from the bulbs were equal, this would be a lot cheaper.

reefburnaby · 01/30/2002, 11:19 PM

Blaster,

No. I don't make reactors for King Ed. Sorry.

Sparky,

In the first posting, I think I worked it out to $40 CAD per lamp. So a four lamp setup would work out to $160 or $100 USD. I think stuff is more expensive in the US (at least commodity stuff), so lets assume it is $160 USD in the US.

$160 for 80W * 4 = 320W or 50 cents per W.

The one thing to note is that T8s are slightly more efficent than VHOs. It is probably 20 to 30% more effiecent.

This is assuming you need 4 lamps. I have a 90 and I only use 3. It is currently bright enough to keep simple SPS. So...you may only need 2 or 3 lamps.

- Victor.

Canadian Man · 01/31/2002, 12:31 AM

Victor
Wow you only use 3 bulbs on your 90? is the height of the tank at the 24"?
Do you use 2 6500k and one Actinic?

To all..... Since reading this post i have converted my 90 to a seriously bright tank for cheep. I now have 6 overdriven bulbs on the tank. 2-10,000k 2-50/50 2 actinic. one actinic is only overdriven by a 2 bulb ballast and all the rest are from 4 bulb ballasts. I added another actinic tonight to get more blue and my corals are digginn the added sunshine. Thanks to all

01/21/2002, 05:39 PM	#54
afss Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Greenhill, Nova Scotia Canada Posts: 382	I was able to get 48 inch t8 6500 at HD, but i didn't see any 36" ones Scott __________________ Scott Stackhouse Current Tank Info: ?

01/28/2002, 12:09 PM	#58
Big Worm Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Northridge (SoCal) Posts: 163	PC question... Was referred to this post by someone on another board.... VERY interesting thread. Hopefully my questions have not already been asked in this thread - I tried to read every reply but I may have missed one or two. Well, question is... Could I overdrive a 32w CSL PC bulb using a CSL 2 x 55w electronic ballast? If so, it sounds like I would need to wire the two ends in-line into one of the endcaps. This would then fire the one bulb... is this right or am I completely clueless???? What would the output in wattage/lumens be???? Again, I apologize if this has been asked/answered previously in this thread... Thanks for the help. Alex __________________ Regards, Big Worm Current Tank Info: 70 gal tall, Jaubert (NNR) system. Main focus is Softies and LPS. No skimmer or any other filtration be it chemical or mechanical.

01/28/2002, 12:59 PM	#59
Big Worm Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Northridge (SoCal) Posts: 163	just realized something... Sorry for the 2nd post but I just realized that my 55w CSL ballast is actually two ballast in one enclosure. Each ballast has its own power cord and end cap... HOW, if possible, would I wire this to overdrive one 32w PC bulb? Could I just wire the two ballasts in-line? Would that increase the wattage/lumens produced by the 32w bulb? Would it significanlty reduce the life of the bulb? Hope I am not asking a bunch of reduntant questions. __________________ Regards, Big Worm Current Tank Info: 70 gal tall, Jaubert (NNR) system. Main focus is Softies and LPS. No skimmer or any other filtration be it chemical or mechanical.

01/28/2002, 05:22 PM	#61
Big Worm Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Northridge (SoCal) Posts: 163	Moving on up.... Anyone out there that can help. See my questions above. __________________ Regards, Big Worm Current Tank Info: 70 gal tall, Jaubert (NNR) system. Main focus is Softies and LPS. No skimmer or any other filtration be it chemical or mechanical.

01/28/2002, 06:45 PM	#63
StirCrazy Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 470	Big Worm to do this you wwould have to figure out the arangement of your end caps and see how the tube is actualy fired, as I had not even thought of this I haven't done it yet. I am going to be setting up my PC's with in the month and I will take a look at it then and see if I can figure out the pin arangment for my PC's. NO tubes are easy, 2 power in on one end and 2 ground out on the other.. as for PC's I am not sure at this point of time. Steve __________________ Some strive to be perfect.... I just strive. Current Tank Info: 37 planted, 25 angel/planted, 20 kids tank and 10 months on a 150 gal (total) reef

01/14/2002, 10:12 PM	#51
2hi4u2c Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Great Falls, MT Posts: 328	Hey guys, In theory a 24" bulb driven by a 4' ballast would be overdriven...Am I correct in this assumption??? Alan

01/15/2002, 12:04 AM	#52
reefburnaby Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Burnaby, B.C., Canada Posts: 44	Hi, Dan. One of the most optimum specular reflector shapes is a M shape. It actually looks like the McDonald's golden arches. In otherwords, if you want a shiny reflector, one of the best shapes is a M shape. But, it is pretty hard to bend a piece of sheet metal in to a complex shape with precision angles, like the golden arches, and not put any scratches on the shiny refector. Your best bet is to make a U shaped reflector and paint it white or sky blue. A white reflector will reflect white light in to the tank while a sky blue reflector will reflect only light that is similar to sky blue (sort of actinic..not quite...but if you like a bluer tank...sky blue is slightly better). You can also design the reflector to prevent light from spilling on to the sides of the tank, the hood and the carpet. Alan, Driving a 24" bulb with a 48" ballast would not be considered overdriving - if an electronic ballast was used. The 24", 36" and 48" have similar lamp current specifications. Lamp current is like say the amount of GPH you are running through a tube in plumbing terms. A ballast is like a water flow regulator in plumbing terms -- it controls how much water or current flows through the lamps. Since a 24" blub is twice as long as the 48", the 48" bulb will require the ballast (or the water pump) to pump twice as hard -- but the same amount of current (GPH) must flow through there. Electrically, this means we need more voltage. Mechanically, this means we need more water pressure or PSI. So, most electronic ballasts can drive different lamp lengths by being water flow regulators, but they have the water pressure (voltage) capacity to maintain that water flow regardless of the tube length. Make sense ? So, if we double drive a bulb with two ballasts, we are essentially running more current (or GPH) through the tubes. Which means...we are overdriving. Why doesn't a magnetic ballast work ? Well, a magnetic ballast isn't smart enough to maintain a constant current (or GPH) through the bulbs. Think of a magnetic ballast as a sump pump and a bulb as a tube going to your tank. When a longer tube is placed on your sump pump, the GPH slows down...right ? This is precisely what happens with a magnetic ballast. An electronic ballast would pump the same GPH regardless of the length. It is alright if the magnetic ballast slows down the current flow when a wrong tube is place in it, but what happens if it is too fast. What if it is so fast that it draws more current that it is designed for...then it will burn out. Hope that helps. - Victo.

01/21/2002, 03:15 PM	#53
BRW Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: North Metro Atlanta Posts: 481	I'm having trouble finding anything but 3000K and 4100K NO T8 bulbs at my HD and Lowes locally here in Georgia. I did find the Sylvania 6500K "Deluxe Daylight" T12 bulb at Lowes. What sources have you found for the T8 size in a useable Kelvin? I'm going to build, hopefully, a 4 bulb, 36" T8 overdrive system for my 150 gallon refugium to replace the LOAs I am presently using. Thanks.

01/21/2002, 06:59 PM	#56
2hi4u2c Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Great Falls, MT Posts: 328	Hey all, T-8s come in 18" & 48" (except aquaria brands) I work at Home Depot for the summer and have checked into all the recources I can find, If anybody else has info otherwise, please post as I would be intrested... Reefbuenaby, Sorry for the momentary brain loss, I meant, if you wired them in series, and then used a 2-bulb ballast to light them(still don't know if I comunicated clearly ). I was thinking backwards the 1st post. Alan

01/21/2002, 07:46 PM	#57
Canadian Man Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Posts: 336	well all i must thank you for bringing me the light hahaha. i have a 90 g reef and i used to have 8 no bulbs. since reading this post a week ago i have rewired my hood to have 5 no t8's ( the are zoo med bulbs) overdriven. and WOW it is an amazing diffrence. the zoomed bulbs work wonderfully and i have a friend that works at a shop and when i buy one i get one for free. so $30 dollars canadian for 2 bulbs. i will post a picture. i currently am using 2 50/50's, 2 10,000k, and one actinic. they wont let me post the same pictures again so search for this thread and you will see some examples. there is a before shot as well. (this is what overdriven no look like)

01/28/2002, 08:03 PM	#64
Big Worm Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Northridge (SoCal) Posts: 163	Steve, Thanks for the reply and the input... you brought something that I did even think of. I will have to open the ballast enclosure and check out how the endcaps are wired. Hopefully the wires are color coded and easy to understand. The enclusure is easy to take upart - just 4 screws on the end. Hopefully there is somene else that will reply and has already done this... that will take the guess work out. Anyone out there that has actually wired to PC ballast in-line to fire one bulb???? __________________ Regards, Big Worm Current Tank Info: 70 gal tall, Jaubert (NNR) system. Main focus is Softies and LPS. No skimmer or any other filtration be it chemical or mechanical.

01/29/2002, 11:01 AM	#65
reefburnaby Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Burnaby, B.C., Canada Posts: 44	Yes. Actually, the safest way to overdrive a PC is to run only one bulb and leave the other socket unconnected. This will overdrive it by a small amount (like 30% to 20%). I have done this before. If you want to go further than that, I can give you some pointers. - Victor.

01/29/2002, 01:21 PM	#66
Big Worm Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Northridge (SoCal) Posts: 163	Victor... Thanks for the reply... you were the one I was hoping would reply since you're the author of this thread. I definately need whatever pointers you can give me. I have a basic understanding of ballasts and lighting. I've pretty much DIY every lighting system I've had. This project however, is a bit beyond my experience to just try without some help. Let me explain what I want to do. I am setting up a 7 gal MiniBow Nano. I have a CSL 2 x 55w electronic ballast kit. Actually, it is two seperate 55w ballasts, each w/ an endcap, housed in one enclosure. My plan was to run two 32w CSL bulbs off of this ballast setup. Then I read this thread. Right now I have one 32w bulb. How could I modify this ballast setup to overdrive the one bulb? How much output would you guestimate I would get with said modification? Do you think I would get more output (lumens) just running the ballast conventionally w/ two 32w bulbs? Thanks for taking the time to help. Alex __________________ Regards, Big Worm Current Tank Info: 70 gal tall, Jaubert (NNR) system. Main focus is Softies and LPS. No skimmer or any other filtration be it chemical or mechanical.

01/29/2002, 07:07 PM	#67
StirCrazy Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 470	Victor, ok how would I wire a ballast for 2 96watt PC's to run one? do I just double up the wires into one end plug? (this would be the easyist way i can think of) Steve __________________ Some strive to be perfect.... I just strive. Current Tank Info: 37 planted, 25 angel/planted, 20 kids tank and 10 months on a 150 gal (total) reef

01/30/2002, 02:21 PM	#68
Adam Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 1,190	Reefburnaby, I don't know if anyone already pointed this out (I didn't read every post), but Icecaps underdrive VHO's by a good amount. The high frequency of the ballast produces almost as much light as a standard VHO ballast running at full wattage. I think it makes the energy consumption issue moot. In order to be sure, you would have to figure out Lumens/Watt of your system vs. the Icecap running VHOs' If bulb cost savings are the issue, keep in mine that Icecaps overdrive NO lamps significantly. In fact, NO's on an Icecap are about 90% as bright as VHO's. I am running 4 F40T12 lamps ($3 from Home Depot) on an Icecap over my refugium, and it works great!! Cheap bulbs and lot's o' light for my lamp and electricity $$'s Adam __________________ Everyone has the right to be stupid, but some people abuse the privilege. Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

01/30/2002, 05:49 PM	#70
Blaster Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Aldergrove, B.C. Posts: 151	reefburnaby,are you the guy making the calcium reacters for kinged?

01/30/2002, 05:53 PM	#71
reefburnaby Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Burnaby, B.C., Canada Posts: 44	Hi, Overdriving PCs ? I would not advise overdriving PCs. I have used PCs before and those lamps are hot hot hot - when used in normal drive. So, overdriving PCs would create even more heat. I don't know...but I don t think it is too safe. If you are really still interested...I can provide some tips. Adam, Have you seen a tank with proposed overdriven lamps ? I am a little confused since we are also using electronic ballasts and we are also overdriving NOs. The main difference is that we are using off-the-shelf parts while others are using Icecap. I guess the other major difference is the cost. I can tell that you like your Icecap and it is a good product. We aren't here to close down Icecap. We are here to propose an alternate route and give Icecap a little competition. In some ways, this may work out to Icecap's advantage. This forces them to do more research to improve their product and try to compete with this technology. I heard that they have a new model out...which is better than the old one. So...the race has started. And yes...I am almost sure that T8s (which is what we are using) are more efficient that VHOs (which are T12s). VHOs produce about 5000 lumens with 65W and the T8 overdrives produce about 6500 lumens with 80W. So...really...the T8s are a bit more efficient...wouldn't you say ? - Victor.

01/30/2002, 06:58 PM	#72
Big Worm Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Northridge (SoCal) Posts: 163	Thanks Victor Victor, Thanks for the input... the nano I was potentially going to put the overdriven PC on is going in my office.... Don't need to be starting any fires at work - literally and figuratively speaking!!! I will just go w/ my original plan of running two 32w bulbs w/ the 55w ballast kit. Thanks again. __________________ Regards, Big Worm Current Tank Info: 70 gal tall, Jaubert (NNR) system. Main focus is Softies and LPS. No skimmer or any other filtration be it chemical or mechanical.

01/30/2002, 09:51 PM	#73
Sparky Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Springfield, MO Posts: 247	Super cool thread! Ive been wishing/longing for a better lighting system. I would like to make the jump from FOWLR to a bonafide Reef Tank. Problem = COST + space in my canopy I have a 55 gal. and space is a premium for me. I had decided on 4 VHO tubes and no MH's. Maybe on the next tank. Now Premium Aquatics sells an IceCap 4 tube 48" 110watt VHO kit (bulbs included) for $331.00. Considering the bulbs alone are worth a $100.00 thats the nessasary hardware for $221.00 give or take a few bucks. $331.00 / 440 watts = about .75cents per watt for the cost to convert to VHO You setup appears to be less. Could you break down the Total cost for your idea? It looks like in the first post youve spent about $60 for a 4 bulb setup. Is this correct? As long as the colors from the bulbs were equal, this would be a lot cheaper.

01/30/2002, 11:19 PM	#74
reefburnaby Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Burnaby, B.C., Canada Posts: 44	Blaster, No. I don't make reactors for King Ed. Sorry. Sparky, In the first posting, I think I worked it out to $40 CAD per lamp. So a four lamp setup would work out to $160 or $100 USD. I think stuff is more expensive in the US (at least commodity stuff), so lets assume it is $160 USD in the US. $160 for 80W * 4 = 320W or 50 cents per W. The one thing to note is that T8s are slightly more efficent than VHOs. It is probably 20 to 30% more effiecent. This is assuming you need 4 lamps. I have a 90 and I only use 3. It is currently bright enough to keep simple SPS. So...you may only need 2 or 3 lamps. - Victor.

01/31/2002, 12:31 AM	#75
Canadian Man Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Posts: 336	Victor Wow you only use 3 bulbs on your 90? is the height of the tank at the 24"? Do you use 2 6500k and one Actinic? To all..... Since reading this post i have converted my 90 to a seriously bright tank for cheep. I now have 6 overdriven bulbs on the tank. 2-10,000k 2-50/50 2 actinic. one actinic is only overdriven by a 2 bulb ballast and all the rest are from 4 bulb ballasts. I added another actinic tonight to get more blue and my corals are digginn the added sunshine. Thanks to all