Raising Alk (dKH) with Baking soda... How much?

Reefn00b · 03/15/2010, 07:13 AM

Guys my dKH is at 5.... it was at 4.. im trying desperately to get it to where it belongs. My calcuim is around 420... Ive been using baking soda to bring it up... 2 teaspoons a day (total water volume 110 gallons) it took over a week to get it from 4 to 5 using this method... Im wonder if i need to bring it up faster and if so... whats the best way... if it is to continue using baking soda... should i use more each day.... Hoping Randy or anyone else can chime in and help me out.

HighlandReefer · 03/15/2010, 07:28 AM

According to the Reef Chemistry Calculator, 2.6 teaspoons of baking soda should raise your 110 g. water volume by 1 dKH. Your tank occupants will use alk each day if you have coral....etc. With your calcium level around 420, I would question your alk kit. How old is the alk kit and what type is it. You may want to get a second opinion from a LFS.

You can use the Calculator to determine how much baking soda to use for your given volume of actual water. I would not raise your alk by more than 2 dKH per day.

Reef chemicals calculator
http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html

Reefn00b · 03/15/2010, 07:34 AM

I have two kits... a seachem kit and a salifert kit.. tried both... they are also both new. they get pretty much the same readings... i also tried an alk test kit... and it shows very low two... can remember the numerical value off the top of my head

HighlandReefer · 03/15/2010, 07:37 AM

Have you been adding any calcium supplement to your tank?

Which salt mix are you using?

What is your salinity and how are you measuring it?

Reefn00b · 03/15/2010, 07:40 AM

My salinity is 1.0245... I use a digital salinity meter along with a a refractometer that i calibrate everytime i use it. with pinpoint calibration fluid. i was using c balance to raise alk... assume thats partly the reason why my calcium is high.. that and the fact that i use oceanic salt which is very high in calc.

HighlandReefer · 03/15/2010, 07:50 AM

When you mix Oceanic to a salinity of 1.0264 you should get an alk level around 8.5 dKH. You are mixing it lower and the alk will be lower. I would mix it to 1.0264 to help increase your alk level. Your calcium level will increase too.

If you feel certain with your alk kit, I would increase your alk level using the Calculator. I have increased my alk level by 3 dKH without problems using baking soda. Some sps coral seem to be more sensitive to alk increases over 2 dKH per day.

Reefn00b · 03/15/2010, 07:55 AM

hmmm good call... Isnt that a little on the high side for salinity. i usually try to never go higher than 025.... thoughts? so you think it would be okay to raise it by 2 dkh per day? would u do it all at once... or in the morning and then in the afternoon... i didnt used to have alk problems... but ive had a huge coraline algae bloom... and i have a fair amount of large sps piece.... large red cap, softball or bigger piece of pink birdsnest... baseball size yellow birdsnest... lps also, a very large hammer and frog spawn, clams etc. any additional thoughts?

HighlandReefer · 03/15/2010, 08:01 AM

The ocean salinity where most coral are taken from is around 1.0264 (which is where I keep mine).

It seems that ULN tanks seem to suffer the most from alk increases. Many drip their alk for that reason. I have not seen any scientific evidence regarding this. Dosing twice per day would be safer if you elect not to drip it.

Reefn00b · 03/15/2010, 08:06 AM

Pardon the noob question.. my name is my disclaimer.. but what does ULN mean... sorry

HighlandReefer · 03/15/2010, 08:27 AM

ULN = ultra low nutrient system, which means very low nitrate, phosphate and possibly organic carbon levels. One theory regarding increasing the alk in these ULN systems is that research has demonstrated that increasing alk levels causes increased skeleton growth. If there is not enough food available to keep up with the increased skeletal growth of coral then this may lead to tip burn in some sps coral.

Reefn00b · 03/15/2010, 08:29 AM

aaah okay.. that makes sense... i thin ill double up... try to raise it by two, and watch my sps closely to make sure Im not pushing it.

HighlandReefer · 03/15/2010, 08:31 AM

Sounds good.

Reefn00b · 03/15/2010, 08:32 AM

Thanks so much for your help!

HighlandReefer · 03/15/2010, 08:33 AM

Your welcome.

Av8bluewater · 03/15/2010, 09:11 AM

Sounds like the tests are correct you're just not adding enough. According to this calculator:
http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chemcalc.html
you need 8 tsp to go from 4 to 7 dkh.
Then take it from there to maintain.

Reefn00b · 03/15/2010, 09:36 AM

Once I get it to where I need to be. what do you guys recommend using to maintain it?

Randy Holmes-Farley · 03/15/2010, 09:39 AM

This will help you select a routine method:

How to Select a Calcium and Alkalinity Supplementation Scheme
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm

Reefn00b · 03/15/2010, 10:00 AM

I had initially thought to use a two part solution like the stuff at Bulk Reef. with dosing pumps. recipe 1 which raises ph. Thoughts?

Randy Holmes-Farley · 03/15/2010, 10:45 AM

That's a perfectly fine way to go. I came up with the recipe they use.

FWIW, I use limewater for my system.

Reefn00b · 03/15/2010, 11:16 AM

Ah, thats good to know... question... Maybe i missed it in the article and if i did i apologize... you use limewater ro keepy your alk in check, which has some pluses lowering phosphates, plus cost... but you still have to dose something for calcium correct?

Randy Holmes-Farley · 03/15/2010, 11:27 AM

No, limewater is a balanced calcium and alkalinity additive.

Reefn00b · 03/15/2010, 11:28 AM

Ahh..good to know... Thanks Randy! Im sure ill have more questions once i finally get my alk back up

Randy Holmes-Farley · 03/15/2010, 11:33 AM

Good luck.

mayjong · 03/15/2010, 12:16 PM

hey Randy- that link is broke, gotta another one?
thanks!

Reefn00b · 03/15/2010, 12:23 PM

That link works for me

03/15/2010, 07:13 AM	#1
Reefn00b Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 524 Blog Entries: 1	Raising Alk (dKH) with Baking soda... How much? Guys my dKH is at 5.... it was at 4.. im trying desperately to get it to where it belongs. My calcuim is around 420... Ive been using baking soda to bring it up... 2 teaspoons a day (total water volume 110 gallons) it took over a week to get it from 4 to 5 using this method... Im wonder if i need to bring it up faster and if so... whats the best way... if it is to continue using baking soda... should i use more each day.... Hoping Randy or anyone else can chime in and help me out.

03/15/2010, 07:28 AM	#2
HighlandReefer Team RC Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highland, Maryland Entomologist Posts: 14,591	According to the Reef Chemistry Calculator, 2.6 teaspoons of baking soda should raise your 110 g. water volume by 1 dKH. Your tank occupants will use alk each day if you have coral....etc. With your calcium level around 420, I would question your alk kit. How old is the alk kit and what type is it. You may want to get a second opinion from a LFS. You can use the Calculator to determine how much baking soda to use for your given volume of actual water. I would not raise your alk by more than 2 dKH per day. Reef chemicals calculator http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html __________________ Cliff Babcock Intestests: Digital Microscopy; Marine Pest Control; Marine Plants & Macroalgae Current Tank Info: 180 g. mixed reef system

03/15/2010, 07:37 AM	#4
HighlandReefer Team RC Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highland, Maryland Entomologist Posts: 14,591	Have you been adding any calcium supplement to your tank? Which salt mix are you using? What is your salinity and how are you measuring it? __________________ Cliff Babcock Intestests: Digital Microscopy; Marine Pest Control; Marine Plants & Macroalgae Current Tank Info: 180 g. mixed reef system

03/15/2010, 07:50 AM	#6
HighlandReefer Team RC Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highland, Maryland Entomologist Posts: 14,591	When you mix Oceanic to a salinity of 1.0264 you should get an alk level around 8.5 dKH. You are mixing it lower and the alk will be lower. I would mix it to 1.0264 to help increase your alk level. Your calcium level will increase too. If you feel certain with your alk kit, I would increase your alk level using the Calculator. I have increased my alk level by 3 dKH without problems using baking soda. Some sps coral seem to be more sensitive to alk increases over 2 dKH per day. __________________ Cliff Babcock Intestests: Digital Microscopy; Marine Pest Control; Marine Plants & Macroalgae Current Tank Info: 180 g. mixed reef system

03/15/2010, 08:01 AM	#8
HighlandReefer Team RC Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highland, Maryland Entomologist Posts: 14,591	The ocean salinity where most coral are taken from is around 1.0264 (which is where I keep mine). It seems that ULN tanks seem to suffer the most from alk increases. Many drip their alk for that reason. I have not seen any scientific evidence regarding this. Dosing twice per day would be safer if you elect not to drip it. __________________ Cliff Babcock Intestests: Digital Microscopy; Marine Pest Control; Marine Plants & Macroalgae Current Tank Info: 180 g. mixed reef system

03/15/2010, 07:34 AM	#3
Reefn00b Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 524 Blog Entries: 1	I have two kits... a seachem kit and a salifert kit.. tried both... they are also both new. they get pretty much the same readings... i also tried an alk test kit... and it shows very low two... can remember the numerical value off the top of my head

03/15/2010, 07:40 AM	#5
Reefn00b Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 524 Blog Entries: 1	My salinity is 1.0245... I use a digital salinity meter along with a a refractometer that i calibrate everytime i use it. with pinpoint calibration fluid. i was using c balance to raise alk... assume thats partly the reason why my calcium is high.. that and the fact that i use oceanic salt which is very high in calc.

03/15/2010, 07:55 AM	#7
Reefn00b Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 524 Blog Entries: 1	hmmm good call... Isnt that a little on the high side for salinity. i usually try to never go higher than 025.... thoughts? so you think it would be okay to raise it by 2 dkh per day? would u do it all at once... or in the morning and then in the afternoon... i didnt used to have alk problems... but ive had a huge coraline algae bloom... and i have a fair amount of large sps piece.... large red cap, softball or bigger piece of pink birdsnest... baseball size yellow birdsnest... lps also, a very large hammer and frog spawn, clams etc. any additional thoughts?

03/15/2010, 08:06 AM	#9
Reefn00b Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 524 Blog Entries: 1	Pardon the noob question.. my name is my disclaimer.. but what does ULN mean... sorry

03/15/2010, 08:27 AM	#10
HighlandReefer Team RC Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highland, Maryland Entomologist Posts: 14,591	ULN = ultra low nutrient system, which means very low nitrate, phosphate and possibly organic carbon levels. One theory regarding increasing the alk in these ULN systems is that research has demonstrated that increasing alk levels causes increased skeleton growth. If there is not enough food available to keep up with the increased skeletal growth of coral then this may lead to tip burn in some sps coral. __________________ Cliff Babcock Intestests: Digital Microscopy; Marine Pest Control; Marine Plants & Macroalgae Current Tank Info: 180 g. mixed reef system

03/15/2010, 08:29 AM	#11
Reefn00b Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 524 Blog Entries: 1	aaah okay.. that makes sense... i thin ill double up... try to raise it by two, and watch my sps closely to make sure Im not pushing it.

03/15/2010, 08:31 AM	#12
HighlandReefer Team RC Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highland, Maryland Entomologist Posts: 14,591	Sounds good. __________________ Cliff Babcock Intestests: Digital Microscopy; Marine Pest Control; Marine Plants & Macroalgae Current Tank Info: 180 g. mixed reef system

03/15/2010, 08:32 AM	#13
Reefn00b Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 524 Blog Entries: 1	Thanks so much for your help!

03/15/2010, 08:33 AM	#14
HighlandReefer Team RC Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highland, Maryland Entomologist Posts: 14,591	Your welcome. __________________ Cliff Babcock Intestests: Digital Microscopy; Marine Pest Control; Marine Plants & Macroalgae Current Tank Info: 180 g. mixed reef system

03/15/2010, 09:11 AM	#15
Av8bluewater Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 763	Sounds like the tests are correct you're just not adding enough. According to this calculator: http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chemcalc.html you need 8 tsp to go from 4 to 7 dkh. Then take it from there to maintain.

03/15/2010, 09:36 AM	#16
Reefn00b Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 524 Blog Entries: 1	Once I get it to where I need to be. what do you guys recommend using to maintain it?

03/15/2010, 09:39 AM	#17
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	This will help you select a routine method: How to Select a Calcium and Alkalinity Supplementation Scheme http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

03/15/2010, 10:00 AM	#18
Reefn00b Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 524 Blog Entries: 1	I had initially thought to use a two part solution like the stuff at Bulk Reef. with dosing pumps. recipe 1 which raises ph. Thoughts?

03/15/2010, 10:45 AM	#19
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	That's a perfectly fine way to go. I came up with the recipe they use. FWIW, I use limewater for my system. __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

03/15/2010, 11:16 AM	#20
Reefn00b Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 524 Blog Entries: 1	Ah, thats good to know... question... Maybe i missed it in the article and if i did i apologize... you use limewater ro keepy your alk in check, which has some pluses lowering phosphates, plus cost... but you still have to dose something for calcium correct?

03/15/2010, 11:27 AM	#21
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	No, limewater is a balanced calcium and alkalinity additive. __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

03/15/2010, 11:28 AM	#22
Reefn00b Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 524 Blog Entries: 1	Ahh..good to know... Thanks Randy! Im sure ill have more questions once i finally get my alk back up

03/15/2010, 11:33 AM	#23
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	Good luck. __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

03/15/2010, 12:16 PM	#24
mayjong Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Sacramento CA Posts: 2,426	hey Randy- that link is broke, gotta another one? thanks! __________________ No Tanks... I'm out! still lurking, though...

03/15/2010, 12:23 PM	#25
Reefn00b Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 524 Blog Entries: 1	That link works for me