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Old 09/08/2018, 09:29 AM   #1
Wandering
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Large Reef Stocking Without Quarantine

Hello fellow large reef owners!

I am setting up a 350 gallon display, and am trying to figure out how to go about fish stocking without having a quarantine system. I really don't have the space for the large 40g (minimum) tank that a tang would require.

Do you just take the risk of introducing something deadly with every fish addition?

Do you give new additions a freshwater (or other type of) dip?

Do you rely on UV?

I have also read that many reefs HAVE ich, it does just not show itself unless fish are stressed. So, have you seen ich but rely on heavy feeding to keep everything healthy?

I know this is a ich/disease post, I am not trying to beat a dead horse . I am just trying to have the absolute minimum lost of life as possible, as well as not endure a heart (and wallet) wrenching fish loss down the line.


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Old 09/08/2018, 11:05 AM   #2
ali1
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If you have a 300+ tank, you should definately have some QT setup and a disaster recovery plan.

Setting yourself up for failure if you think your DT is the only tank needed to successfuly sustain a reef. Most smart reefers will tell you its absolute minimum to have a 40g spare tank.

I have a 400g system w/ 75g tank on standby for quarantine or disaster scenarios.

In this hobby, assume odds are against you. If you truly love these beautiful specimen, take the time to QT every one of them to avoid killing them or worse- wiping out your entire livestock

Aside from killing your fish, the QT process is easier than tearing apart your 300g to grab every fish after infection. You would waste more time then you ever did and be watching an empty tank for 9 weeks biting your nails


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Originally Posted by Gogandantess

"I'm totally frustrated by this disease. My display has been fallow for 2 months now. If ich happened to mysteriously appear again, I'm giving up and going back to African Cichilds."

Last edited by ali1; 09/08/2018 at 11:15 AM.
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Old 09/08/2018, 07:23 PM   #3
Alfrareef
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I use the LFS quarantine tank, but have to admit ali1 has a point...


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Old 09/09/2018, 10:06 AM   #4
rvareef
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im confused, you have the space for a 350, but not a 40breeder? Post some pics of your setup. Im not sure if you plan on going corals, but the same potentially hazardous introductions without quarantine can happen with corals as well as fish.


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Old 09/10/2018, 12:04 PM   #5
McPuff
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Start the tangs small and you can use a 20 gal for QT. They don't require much space or equipment (pump, heater, filter). People often regret NOT doing a QT, but I've never heard of anyone that regrets putting fish through a QT procedure. I've done it both ways and QT is my only way forward.


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Old 09/10/2018, 12:15 PM   #6
Rover88
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Yo hey.

Only been doing this a year, and set up a 75 gallon with sump and found I 'didn't have room for a QT'.

Caught Ich. Suddenly found room. Had to tear tank down to get fish out. 80 days no fish in DT, while maintaining a QT.

Its a lot easier now to justify having the room for a QT. I'd highly recommend it, and my tank is tiny compared to yours.

PS: I kept a medium sized tang in 20 gallons of water for 80 days. You can too! Yes the fish won't be happy. Its a temporary unhappiness that is better then ich.


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Old 09/13/2018, 02:39 PM   #7
jezzeaepi
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You need a QT. Period.


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Old 09/13/2018, 06:10 PM   #8
Jason9488
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I have never had a QT and been doing this for 20 years.


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Old 09/13/2018, 06:40 PM   #9
ali1
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Originally Posted by Gogandantess

"I'm totally frustrated by this disease. My display has been fallow for 2 months now. If ich happened to mysteriously appear again, I'm giving up and going back to African Cichilds."
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Old 09/14/2018, 12:10 AM   #10
jezzeaepi
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I have never had a QT and been doing this for 20 years.
You've had a 90 gallon tank for three months. That's got nothing to do with long term success of a 350.


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Old 09/14/2018, 01:20 AM   #11
lagatbezan
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I did the no qt thing years ago with my 180 and failed miserably. With Ich you "might" be able to manage it somewhat but keep in mind velvet is a lot more common nowadays and it is a super fast killer which can wipe out your entire rank within 24-48 hours. Not to mention other parasites like brook, flukes and Euronema. almost every lfs, online vendor and even distributors have one or more of these parasites in their systems where the fish gets exposed to along the way. It only takes one to make it into your display to cause a crash. If you want to enjoy your tank long term and not to lose livestock do it right and qt everything wet thoroughly before it goes into your display. That's just my person opinion. Congrats on the new tank


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Old 09/14/2018, 03:06 AM   #12
reefinmike
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I thought I could get away with setting up a new tank taking calculated risks regarding proper QT. I wasted 9 months worth of progress. I wish I just started with cooked or sterile dry rock and proper quarantine for both coral and fish. I tried cheating the first two tries but it came back to bite me each time. I am re starting my tank for the third and final time... the right way.

I bet a tank that big is worth the effort of quarantine.


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Old 09/14/2018, 07:17 AM   #13
CrayolaViolence
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I'll even throw in one more. Treat the fish in QT as if they are infected. Dip them, medicate them, etc. A fish who is immune or not showing visible signs of disease can be carriers and infect fish who might not have as strong of an immune system.


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Old 09/14/2018, 08:32 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by CrayolaViolence View Post
I'll even throw in one more. Treat the fish in QT as if they are infected. Dip them, medicate them, etc. A fish who is immune or not showing visible signs of disease can be carriers and infect fish who might not have as strong of an immune system.
This is so true!

The reason many of us are so insistent on QT is because we've tried the other route. I lost an entire tank full of beautiful angels, triggers, and tangs because of a no QT approach. After two years of great success I added one fish and within a week everything was dead. That makes you feel helpless and (more strongly) guilty for what happened to the fish. The community does not want to be jerks by insisting on QT... we are trying to help others avoid these terrible situations. A few months spent QTing fish is better than a possible year to rebuild another established system because you lost everything and had to tear it all down and start again. It also costs a LOT less to do it the right way.


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Old 09/14/2018, 08:45 AM   #15
CrayolaViolence
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Originally Posted by McPuff View Post
This is so true!

The reason many of us are so insistent on QT is because we've tried the other route. I lost an entire tank full of beautiful angels, triggers, and tangs because of a no QT approach. After two years of great success I added one fish and within a week everything was dead. That makes you feel helpless and (more strongly) guilty for what happened to the fish. The community does not want to be jerks by insisting on QT... we are trying to help others avoid these terrible situations. A few months spent QTing fish is better than a possible year to rebuild another established system because you lost everything and had to tear it all down and start again. It also costs a LOT less to do it the right way.
You are very correct. And I'm glad the seasoned reefers and fish keepers speak up


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Old 09/14/2018, 02:23 PM   #16
Crusty Old Shellback
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Not saying to go this route.

I've had SW tanks since the mid '70's. Reef tanks since '90, and a 400G Natural Salt Water tank for over 10 years.

I've never QT'd anything.

I've had ups and downs.

In my 400G tank, I've had Ich show up on a new fish, but it disappeared in a few days. No other fish were affected. I've kept a Moorish Idol alive in that tank for over 4 years, Pair of Naso tangs over 7 years. They wound up dying because my skimmer and pumps failed and the tank basically ran out of oxygen.

I'm a firm believer from 10 + years experience of using NSW that there are things in that water that can not be duplicated. I've seen things happen in my NSW tank that I've never seen happen in other tanks. I believe that was one of the reasons I had success with my 400G tank with no QT. But I do not have any scientific data to prove it, only years of observations.


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Current Tank Info: Tankless for a while. RIP my 8+ yr old pair of Naso tangs, 4 + yr old Moorish Idol
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Old 09/17/2018, 07:37 AM   #17
McPuff
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Originally Posted by Crusty Old Shellback View Post
Not saying to go this route.

I've had SW tanks since the mid '70's. Reef tanks since '90, and a 400G Natural Salt Water tank for over 10 years.

I'm a firm believer from 10 + years experience of using NSW that there are things in that water that can not be duplicated. I've seen things happen in my NSW tank that I've never seen happen in other tanks. I believe that was one of the reasons I had success with my 400G tank with no QT. But I do not have any scientific data to prove it, only years of observations.
It would be great to have the ability to use NSW. I do believe that you see differences from artificial. How did you collect and transport it? Just filter it before using?


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Old 09/18/2018, 12:38 AM   #18
icerain29
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For me i usually add a little bit of prazi pro and paraguard when iím doing the acclimation, then a 6 mins fresh water dip. i run a 57w aqua uv unit, i think a strong uv always helps. Buy a healthy fish at the start, and buy them when they just reach the fish store.


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Old 09/28/2018, 11:49 PM   #19
ca1ore
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A 20L can suffice for all but the largest fish. Always love the 20-years-without-QT folks. Let's see a picture of the tank . I went the first 15 years of my time in the hobby without QT; the last 15 with QT. Much easier and cheaper to build a sizable population with (have over 100 fish in my 450).


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Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones!

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Old 09/29/2018, 06:37 PM   #20
lapin
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This is my opinion;
Not knowing your experience with salt water systems, You should use a qt tank or 2 (if you do the TTM for ich ). One of your posts included something about petco tanks so you know they are cheap. Yes there are older reefers that dont qt and have thriving tanks. NSW, mud and crud from the bay ect.... This is not you. Your system will be new and will not have the bacterial system set up to keep disease or much else in check. Your first year will be filled with keeping all the uglies in check and getting your tank stablized. It will not have the constant live food supply needed to keep fish ultra healthy. We are just now discovering gut bacteria and what role is has in keeping everything healthy. Just go slow and good things will happen. If you want to be in a hurry and take short cuts, hire and company to come set up and maintain your tank. You will miss some of the what I call fun but that fun is not for everyone.
However you do it "have fun".
Remember every set back is a oppertunity to learn.


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Old 09/29/2018, 10:28 PM   #21
2_zoa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wandering View Post
Hello fellow large reef owners!

I am setting up a 350 gallon display, and am trying to figure out how to go about fish stocking without having a quarantine system. I really don't have the space for the large 40g (minimum) tank that a tang would require.

Do you just take the risk of introducing something deadly with every fish addition?

Do you give new additions a freshwater (or other type of) dip?

Do you rely on UV?

I have also read that many reefs HAVE ich, it does just not show itself unless fish are stressed. So, have you seen ich but rely on heavy feeding to keep everything healthy?

I know this is a ich/disease post, I am not trying to beat a dead horse . I am just trying to have the absolute minimum lost of life as possible, as well as not endure a heart (and wallet) wrenching fish loss down the line.
You poll the forum nearly a month ago with no response to the group about there thoughts.......
Not cool. Not cool at all.

However, you should QT in my opinion. Everyone should reguardless of tank size. Period.


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Old 10/01/2018, 08:22 AM   #22
Crusty Old Shellback
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It would be great to have the ability to use NSW. I do believe that you see differences from artificial. How did you collect and transport it? Just filter it before using?
The local university here has a large marine research facility. They actually bring in the water from about a mile off shore in a pipe line. That feeds into a large rock/sand filters and then into a 25,000 dark storage tank. They have lines plumbed all around the campus to feed their projects. They also have a water spout that the public can have access to. I have a 250G water container that I would drive up there and fill up using a garden hose. About a 75 mile round trip to get 250 G of filtered NSW.

Most times, I'd do a 50% water change when I got home so didn't have to store much water. Fish and corals were fine even though there was a temp swing of 10 degrees or more.


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Have you THANKED a Veteran lately for the freedoms you take for granted each day?

Best quote ever!
"This is a hobby for God sakes and so many people get so uptite. A "hobby" so it should be fun and not a cause to worry or go broke." Paul B

Current Tank Info: Tankless for a while. RIP my 8+ yr old pair of Naso tangs, 4 + yr old Moorish Idol
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Old 10/01/2018, 08:30 AM   #23
Crusty Old Shellback
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Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post
Always love the 20-years-without-QT folks. Let's see a picture of the tank . Much easier and cheaper to build a sizable population with (have over 100 fish in my 450).
Here you go. That toad stool in the front is about 15" across. The Male Naso in the last pic didn't start growing his streamers until after I got him and put him in the tank with NSW. The Naso's came with the tank from the previous owner who had them for years. 100 fish in a 450? They must be really small fish.





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Have you THANKED a Veteran lately for the freedoms you take for granted each day?

Best quote ever!
"This is a hobby for God sakes and so many people get so uptite. A "hobby" so it should be fun and not a cause to worry or go broke." Paul B

Current Tank Info: Tankless for a while. RIP my 8+ yr old pair of Naso tangs, 4 + yr old Moorish Idol

Last edited by Crusty Old Shellback; 10/01/2018 at 08:35 AM.
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Old 10/01/2018, 08:33 AM   #24
McPuff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusty Old Shellback View Post
The local university here has a large marine research facility. They actually bring in the water from about a mile off shore in a pipe line. That feeds into a large rock/sand filters and then into a 25,000 dark storage tank. They have lines plumbed all around the campus to feed their projects. They also have a water spout that the public can have access to. I have a 250G water container that I would drive up there and fill up using a garden hose. About a 75 mile round trip to get 250 G of filtered NSW.

Most times, I'd do a 50% water change when I got home so didn't have to store much water. Fish and corals were fine even though there was a temp swing of 10 degrees or more.
Wow! And you can get the saltwater for free?! That is incredible. That would be a huge cost savings for people in your area with large tanks. Certainly worth the drive! Nice tank too!


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Old 10/01/2018, 08:44 AM   #25
Crusty Old Shellback
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Thanks.
yea it is nice. I took our club up there for a field trip one time and they gave us the full tour of the NSW facility, filtration system and all. So we got to see it all first hand. They have 2 holding tanks. First one is the incoming water and you can see all kinds of growth in it, sponges etc. Second tank is the filtered water and there is no growth. The filter system is huge and open. There were all kinds of stuff growing on top of it as well. They back flush it every once in a while. We were there when it did back flush and all kinds of stuff was coming out of the rocks and sand.


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Have you THANKED a Veteran lately for the freedoms you take for granted each day?

Best quote ever!
"This is a hobby for God sakes and so many people get so uptite. A "hobby" so it should be fun and not a cause to worry or go broke." Paul B

Current Tank Info: Tankless for a while. RIP my 8+ yr old pair of Naso tangs, 4 + yr old Moorish Idol
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