Leopard Wrasse Primer

[triggreef]

I've been trying to read through this whole thread and I am around page 82 right now. I have tried a few leopards from different venders. I've done things a little different from the majority here because I just have been through too much with ich and going through fallow periods and such so I have been using QT's for everything including leopards.

I set up a 20g with sand and LR and loaded it with pods. This was established for quite some time before trying any leopards. I also re-seed with pods from reefs2go on a fairly regular basis. I like those because they come in all different sizes and the wrasses go nuts for them. My first try was a bipartus from my LFS. She looked good at the store hunting around but I didn't have them feed her first. She stayed buried for days an anytime she came out she just layed on her side. I couldn't get her to even look at anything and she died in about a week.

Then I tried 4 meleagris and one more bipartus from bluezoo, 2 meleagris DOA. I had a hard time getting the others to eat even though they came out I only saw the bipartus and one of the (very small) meleagris's eat pods and evenually got those two both eating. The other meleagris died in the first week. I had the bipartus eating live black worms and both ate frozen brine but not really mysis from what I could tell. They spit the mysis.

I did 2 doses of prazi after the first week on these 2. The bipartus died out of now where about a month in. He was eating live black worms several times a day and frozen brine but never would really go for the mysis or anything else I tried. One day he was out but did not eat, next day dead.

That small meleagris ended up having an extended QT stay due to ich in my display tank and I underwent a 12 week fallow. I just got him into my display on 8/19 and he has been great in there. He has also finally begun eating other things like the pe mysis and reef frenzy food. I actually bought the reef frenzy foods specifically to try to get leopards taking frozen and it seems to have worked.

I also tried 3 more bipartus females (from Liveaquaria) that began their QT when I moved the meleagris to the display. They all seemed ok from the start exept one seemed to have balance issues big time and was just not right. The next day though they were all eating live black worms and pe mysis, even the one that was still swimming funny. I dosed prazi on the second day. Two of the 3 died within the first week. I did the second dose of prazi on day 7. Then I moved the other bipartus to the display on about day 11 I think, 2 days ago.

The meleagris and bipartus seem to like each other and are always together in the display. I have them both eating very well and I've been feeding about 6 or 7 times a day now.

I'm thinking I'm going to try 2 more meleagris from liveaquaria since they gave me credit for the 2 bipartus.

Things I've learned that I would consider important are:

1. Dose the prazi asap. I think I could have one more bipartus if I dosed it sooner on my bluezoo order.
2. Buy from Liveaquaria/divers den only. They seem to have the better specimens and still back up their guarantee on leopards. Also they seemed easier to get eating frozen.
3. You guys are impossible to beat when one actually does hit divers den...
4. *** Don't trust what the venders says they ship at for specific gravity. They told me they ship at 1.025 and I checked with a refractometer and it was 1.018.
5. Live black worms and live brine are great to have on hand when you receive your leopards.

I also began (on my last order) adjusting the QT to the SG of the fish when they arrive instead of such a dramatized acclimation. I think that helped ALOT. They seemed much less stressed going in and began eating much faster than the others.

I want to try a potters or a kuteri (sp? idk) down the road too but I want to make sure I'll have some success with the ones I have first. I also might try to set up a slightly larger established QT down the road too just for dosing the prazi. I don't do it in my display because I don't want to kill off anything in there really. I also don't want to risk any spike from too many worms dying all at once which would most likely be the case for me in their.

Originally Posted by gregrocks79

In the works...I hear that glass takes away some of the light penetration. Any one know about this??

LFS is going to their supplier this week and looking for a blue star pair for me ����

I can tell you I have LED's and an apogee par meter. I noticed very very little difference with or without my glass tops. I have a canopy on my tank and I still keep the glass tops on the rear portion. No ones jumping out of my tank.

I think the par difference was less than 10, and my tops were dirty/salt creep and such. So that is nothing as far as I'm concerned.

[Davi37ggs]

You are probaby thinking of the negrosensis.

[hanig]

I would really be interested to know what percentage of Leopard wrasse buyers from Live Aquaria call back within the 15 day warranty period due to dead fish.I would guess over 50%.I'm impressed they warranty them at all,especially the Choates wrasse.

Also,it is extremely rare for a leopard wrasse to show up on Divers Den.And when they do,they sell in seconds.Are they just too labor intensive for them?Poor survival rates?

[triggreef]

The guy that runs/owns? Liveaquaria/divers den has posted in this thread quite a few times. He seems to have his methods down from his posts and I wonder that too. I would think that they would have a much higher percentage of sales that make it past their 2 week guarantee coming from divers den.

I would bet that they just dont get as many sent to divers den and it seems like they try to get more males on divers den.

I havent been looking long but I have only seen them through the sneak peak emails other than that I never see one on DD and like you said, you have to be refreshing your browser waiting for it to get it.

[gregrocks79]

Originally Posted by triggreef

I've been trying to read through this whole thread and I am around page 82 right now. I have tried a few leopards from different venders. I've done things a little different from the majority here because I just have been through too much with ich and going through fallow periods and such so I have been using QT's for everything including leopards.

I set up a 20g with sand and LR and loaded it with pods. This was established for quite some time before trying any leopards. I also re-seed with pods from reefs2go on a fairly regular basis. I like those because they come in all different sizes and the wrasses go nuts for them. My first try was a bipartus from my LFS. She looked good at the store hunting around but I didn't have them feed her first. She stayed buried for days an anytime she came out she just layed on her side. I couldn't get her to even look at anything and she died in about a week.

Then I tried 4 meleagris and one more bipartus from bluezoo, 2 meleagris DOA. I had a hard time getting the others to eat even though they came out I only saw the bipartus and one of the (very small) meleagris's eat pods and evenually got those two both eating. The other meleagris died in the first week. I had the bipartus eating live black worms and both ate frozen brine but not really mysis from what I could tell. They spit the mysis.

I did 2 doses of prazi after the first week on these 2. The bipartus died out of now where about a month in. He was eating live black worms several times a day and frozen brine but never would really go for the mysis or anything else I tried. One day he was out but did not eat, next day dead.

That small meleagris ended up having an extended QT stay due to ich in my display tank and I underwent a 12 week fallow. I just got him into my display on 8/19 and he has been great in there. He has also finally begun eating other things like the pe mysis and reef frenzy food. I actually bought the reef frenzy foods specifically to try to get leopards taking frozen and it seems to have worked.

I also tried 3 more bipartus females (from Liveaquaria) that began their QT when I moved the meleagris to the display. They all seemed ok from the start exept one seemed to have balance issues big time and was just not right. The next day though they were all eating live black worms and pe mysis, even the one that was still swimming funny. I dosed prazi on the second day. Two of the 3 died within the first week. I did the second dose of prazi on day 7. Then I moved the other bipartus to the display on about day 11 I think, 2 days ago.

The meleagris and bipartus seem to like each other and are always together in the display. I have them both eating very well and I've been feeding about 6 or 7 times a day now.

I'm thinking I'm going to try 2 more meleagris from liveaquaria since they gave me credit for the 2 bipartus.

Things I've learned that I would consider important are:

1. Dose the prazi asap. I think I could have one more bipartus if I dosed it sooner on my bluezoo order.
2. Buy from Liveaquaria/divers den only. They seem to have the better specimens and still back up their guarantee on leopards. Also they seemed easier to get eating frozen.
3. You guys are impossible to beat when one actually does hit divers den...
4. *** Don't trust what the venders says they ship at for specific gravity. They told me they ship at 1.025 and I checked with a refractometer and it was 1.018.
5. Live black worms and live brine are great to have on hand when you receive your leopards.

I also began (on my last order) adjusting the QT to the SG of the fish when they arrive instead of such a dramatized acclimation. I think that helped ALOT. They seemed much less stressed going in and began eating much faster than the others.

I want to try a potters or a kuteri (sp? idk) down the road too but I want to make sure I'll have some success with the ones I have first. I also might try to set up a slightly larger established QT down the road too just for dosing the prazi. I don't do it in my display because I don't want to kill off anything in there really. I also don't want to risk any spike from too many worms dying all at once which would most likely be the case for me in their.



I can tell you I have LED's and an apogee par meter. I noticed very very little difference with or without my glass tops. I have a canopy on my tank and I still keep the glass tops on the rear portion. No ones jumping out of my tank.

I think the par difference was less than 10, and my tops were dirty/salt creep and such. So that is nothing as far as I'm concerned.

Good to know thanks!! I'd rather do a completely closed system and avoid netting.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by triggreef

Buy from Liveaquaria/divers den only.

FYI, I am 2 for 2 with Meleagris from Max Reefs in Yonkers; not exactly sure how far that is for you, bus something to consider. Have never seen any Bipartitus there though.

[triggreef]

I remember you posting that... I was very tempted to go but the timing was off for me. Plus the wife doesn't question the package at the door like she does these day trips for fish/corals. Lol

I actually just ordered 2 more mm and a mn from live aquaria. They will arive this morning...

[Arkayology]

Update on my new potters that I posted before:
It is still alive and kicking. It is eating frozen brine/mysis and I am hopeful it will start showing interest in pellets soon. Unfortunately, I had to remove my Ornatus from the tank as it was just becoming too aggressive and was not letting the potters out to eat. I found a good home for it though. I think I will not try to add another leopard to this tank. I was hoping that the aggression would go away in a couple days per my previous experiences, but this time it was a no go.

[triggreef]

The 2 new meleagris are much bigger than I expected, about 3.5" I'd say. They both looked pretty out of it on arrival and went straight to the sand. The MN was a bit smaller and he looked very nice but he already had an inch of the white stringy poo. He also dove immediately.

I usually wait to dose prazi until everyone is eating but I'm thinking I might start that a little early this time.

[unchin]

Originally Posted by SoCalDude

Update on my new potters that I posted before:
It is still alive and kicking. It is eating frozen brine/mysis and I am hopeful it will start showing interest in pellets soon. Unfortunately, I had to remove my Ornatus from the tank as it was just becoming too aggressive and was not letting the potters out to eat. I found a good home for it though. I think I will not try to add another leopard to this tank. I was hoping that the aggression would go away in a couple days per my previous experiences, but this time it was a no go.

Cool! My potters ate NLS in the first week. Didn't need any training. Maybe yours will like NLS too.

[impur]

Originally Posted by gregrocks79

Anyone have pics???

Here is one I made for my 40B

[gregrocks79]

Originally Posted by impur

Here is one I made for my 40B

How cute she has her own bed!! Lol lookin good

[triggreef]

2 out of 3, out and about, eating some pods. Mostly spitting frozen and not much interest in blackworms.

[gregrocks79]

Got me a melanurus wrasse today. Swam around, checked things out then hit the sand. He looks nice n healthy and colorful. I wanted a more hardy yet very pretty wrasse

Pic provided by live aquaria for reference.



What's everyone's experience w the mighty melanurus?!

[triggreef]

Originally Posted by gregrocks79

Got me a melanurus wrasse today. Swam around, checked things out then hit the sand. He looks nice n healthy and colorful. I wanted a more hardy yet very pretty wrasse

Pic provided by live aquaria for reference.



What's everyone's experience w the mighty melanurus?!

I have one in my 125 FOWLR and whatever else that wont get eaten. He was mean to the partner I got at the same time and I had to seperate them, both females at the time. The more agressive one turned male and it took several months once I noticed the transition. He is very pretty and a model citizen in his tank. He's with a red coris, yellow coris pair, a tuskfish and a ton of other fish. Dunno how he is with small inverts they wont make it past the tusk.

The other is waiting to go into my reef but I want any and all leopards to go in and establish themselves first, so even though she is ready, she has some time to wait. She isn't showing signs of changing yet. Also she is in with a bunch of fairy wrasses too, an exquisite, solorensis, lubbocks, mccoskers, cleaner, and shows no aggression ever towards them.

[triggreef]

And my #3 came out at about 4 and stayed out til lights out at 730. #3 is very big and still female as far as I can tell. All 3 seem to like each other but still mostly mouthing and spitting frozen all day. I gotta run out for live brine tommorrow. But at least they are all hunting and catching pods.

I did dose prazi this afternoon.

[ca1ore]

Both on my MM are still not completely on ET! Not as bad as when I first got them, but I see both of them swimming around beginning at about 5 am, and they go to the sand at about 2 pm. Both are eating frozen brine, mysid and occasionally reef frenzy. I'm still a bit concerned that they are both twitchy feeders and will not compete well in the DT - hence they remain in the fuge.

I never did see white, stringy poo from either one, so did not do prazi. A mistake I wonder?

[triggreef]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Both on my MM are still not completely on ET! Not as bad as when I first got them, but I see both of them swimming around beginning at about 5 am, and they go to the sand at about 2 pm. Both are eating frozen brine, mysid and occasionally reef frenzy. I'm still a bit concerned that they are both twitchy feeders and will not compete well in the DT - hence they remain in the fuge.

I never did see white, stringy poo from either one, so did not do prazi. A mistake I wonder?

I just do the prazi because its been recommended by most here including the drsfostersmith guy. There could be a whole lot of reasons why these fish die so often in the first week or 2. There are so many factors that could be listed here.

Unfortunately I think that many of these factors aren't even touched on in most of the posts on this thread. Like what the specific gravity is on their intro into your tank v. in the bag they come in. I emailed liveaquaria specifically asking what they ship at and the said 1.025.... Well so far every shipment I get from them has been 1.018... Thats a big difference even if your acclimating them by drip method. Which IMO is not the right way for a fish in a bag for 24 hrs which has a lot of ammonia. As the ph increases from your drip, the ammonia becomes more toxic and your poisoning the fish.

I have been making sure to set up the my quarantine ahead of time to match the water of the fish coming, then just temp acclimate and thats it. Its seems to have worked better for the last few.

Not to mention changes in alk that seem to make the choati so hard to keep. The other leopards could also be effected by alk swings perhaps just not quite as delicate as the choati's.

The 2 MM's and one MN that I got on the 4th seem to be doing well and they are taking frozen mysis and brine now. I just did a 50% water change tonight and put the second dose of prazi. I'm ging to give them another 5 days in the QT with prazi and then move them into my display. It should be interesting to see what happens when I intro these 2 large MM's to the display where the one tiny MM has been by herself for the last month or so. I hope they like eachother.

I also think that feeding as much as possible through the day is another huge factor. I've been trying to feed at least about 10 times throughout the day

And then theres the occasional person that hasn't researched leopards at all, throw them straight to their tank, and they do well. Probably just because those get an adequate amount of pods until they figure out the other foods.

[triggreef]

Originally Posted by gregrocks79

What's everyone's experience w the mighty melanurus?!

Adding to my other response... A few days ago I just tossed in a conch snail I had in an invert QT for quite some time. I did it at night so he would have a chance to bury himself and he did.

So far so good. I see the snail out after lights out but he has been buried during the day. I was really worried about the tusk more than the melanuris but both have ignored it.

[gregrocks79]

Originally Posted by triggreef

Adding to my other response... A few days ago I just tossed in a conch snail I had in an invert QT for quite some time. I did it at night so he would have a chance to bury himself and he did.

So far so good. I see the snail out after lights out but he has been buried during the day. I was really worried about the tusk more than the melanuris but both have ignored it.

Good to know since I have a queen conch lol.

Mine came out all day today. Good looking young adult male. And snacking ok everything

[Ralph ATL]

Nice! Halichoeres melanurus! your images aren't showing up here, but you can copy and paste them.....

[gregrocks79]

Originally Posted by mysterybox

Nice! Halichoeres melanurus! your images aren't showing up here, but you can copy and paste them.....

Thanks! So far he's awesome. I see the pics from my phone and online. Still can't see em??

Dang edit button.







Now they show up hahaha :P

[Ralph ATL]

oh yeah! fat and happy!

[Ralph ATL]

delete

[Ralph ATL]

one of my pair of
Macropharyngodon kuiteri





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IMG_3070crop by mysterybox10, on Flickr[img]






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IMG_3056 by mysterybox10, on Flickr[img]