Marine Ich, How?

Gangrene · 09/17/2019, 08:23 PM

I'll never understand this stuff. It's the bane of my saltwater fish keeping.

My last issue with ich was May. Total annihilation of my fish... luckily I really only had 4 before I added the ich magnets that Green Chromis appear to be... both of my issues with ich originated with Chromis. My previous issue being years ago. After all my fish died in that tank I waited two months and have a Lawnmower bleeny in that tank, which is fine... Their life cycle should last 2 months hence that tank should be "ich free". Here comes the crazy stuff.

So, I started a new tank. This tank has NEVER had fish, it's new. After it being setup for a while I just put my first two fish in it. Saltwater mollies. They were freshwater mollies. Over the last several months my LFS converted them to saltwater and they've been doing fine for months in converted saltwater over there. No issues. They came from fresh water originally that was changed to salt water... so how could marine ich be present in that tank? It couldn't be safer right? I bought two of them and brought them home, of course no signs if ich. I put them in my NEW saltwater tank on the 15th. I SLOWLY acclimated them from the 1.022 at the store to my 1.025... I measured the water at 1.023, 1.024, and almost 1.025 when I added them to the tank. Now two days later I think I'm seeing signs of one of the fish having ich on it... How is this possible?!? They come from fresh converted to salt, so marine ich couldn't be present from where they came from... and now they are in a tank that have never seen a fish in it period... How could they have ich?!? Someone please explain this because I'm extremely frustrated. I was going to try moving my bleeny over, but now I'm stopping everything. I really don't even know how this is even possible to happen.

nereefpat · 09/18/2019, 07:47 AM

2 months "may" not have been long enough. The fallow period for marine ich is 76 days to be 100% sure.

Anything from a local fish store is potentially carrying ich. The mollies could have been exposed once in saltwater above hypo-salinity conditions via water changes, nets, aerosol, etc.

I'm not sure if any of that helps you now...What I would do, is use Tank Transfer Method or copper on the blenny, mollies, and any new fish. Then place them in a clean tank while your display remains fallow (without fish) for 76 days. Tanks also should be as far apart as feasible to prevent splashing or aerosol transfer.

Let's bug @HumbleFish while we're at it.

Dmorty217 · 09/18/2019, 08:15 AM

+1^ The mollies got the ich from the tank(s) they were in at the LFS. You should really invest in another small tank for QT. You should assume all fish have at least one disease/problem if not several.

ThRoewer · 09/18/2019, 08:59 AM

Cryptocaryon isn't really that difficult to deal with once you understand it.
But there are some things most people don't know.
Cryptocaryon cysts can go into a nearly indefinite (months, maybe up to a year or two) hibernation mode under certain conditions. Two of those are:
- temperature below 19 °C
- low oxygen/anaerobic conditions.

Also, fish can aquire various levels of immunity against nearly every parasite there is. So just because a fish doesn't show symptoms doesn't mean it is free of pathogens.

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kenpau · 09/18/2019, 09:52 AM

This is really unfortunate but it does highlight the importance of quarantine for all incoming fish. There are various different methods of quarantining but we should all have a system in place for treating all fish before adding to the display, for the money it costs to run a QT there really is no justification for not having one.

HumbleFish · 09/18/2019, 10:00 AM

Letting your LFS convert the black mollies to SW was the fatal flaw. Once they were in full seawater, cross contamination from another tank most likely occurred.

ThRoewer · 09/18/2019, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HumbleFish

Letting your LFS convert the black mollies to SW was the fatal flaw. Once they were in full seawater, cross contamination from another tank most likely occurred.

Yep, never let the LFS do what you can do yourself.
And especially when it comes to quarantineing fish I don't trust anyone. Heck, I barely trust myself with that... how could I trust an LFS?

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ClownReef® · 09/18/2019, 12:02 PM

Why do people cycle fish with freshwater fish?

Go to the grocery store, buy A fresh shrimp, thrown it in your sump in a mesh bag and watch the tank cycle.

Mollies...lol

Cancun · 09/18/2019, 10:22 PM

Wow! Sorry for your troubles! I definitely know how frustrating that can be!

I also agree that their must have been cross contamination at the LFS. I love my LFS, but in this hobby the only one I trust a 100% is me.....lol...I have made my share of mistakes over the years in this hobby for sure, but at least I had no one to blame but myself.... LOL.

The advice on here from these guys is excellent. Probably not what you want to hear though. Good luck!

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09/17/2019, 08:23 PM	#1
Gangrene Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fremont, Ohio Posts: 90	Marine Ich, How? I'll never understand this stuff. It's the bane of my saltwater fish keeping. My last issue with ich was May. Total annihilation of my fish... luckily I really only had 4 before I added the ich magnets that Green Chromis appear to be... both of my issues with ich originated with Chromis. My previous issue being years ago. After all my fish died in that tank I waited two months and have a Lawnmower bleeny in that tank, which is fine... Their life cycle should last 2 months hence that tank should be "ich free". Here comes the crazy stuff. So, I started a new tank. This tank has NEVER had fish, it's new. After it being setup for a while I just put my first two fish in it. Saltwater mollies. They were freshwater mollies. Over the last several months my LFS converted them to saltwater and they've been doing fine for months in converted saltwater over there. No issues. They came from fresh water originally that was changed to salt water... so how could marine ich be present in that tank? It couldn't be safer right? I bought two of them and brought them home, of course no signs if ich. I put them in my NEW saltwater tank on the 15th. I SLOWLY acclimated them from the 1.022 at the store to my 1.025... I measured the water at 1.023, 1.024, and almost 1.025 when I added them to the tank. Now two days later I think I'm seeing signs of one of the fish having ich on it... How is this possible?!? They come from fresh converted to salt, so marine ich couldn't be present from where they came from... and now they are in a tank that have never seen a fish in it period... How could they have ich?!? Someone please explain this because I'm extremely frustrated. I was going to try moving my bleeny over, but now I'm stopping everything. I really don't even know how this is even possible to happen.

09/18/2019, 07:47 AM	#2
nereefpat Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Central Nebraska Posts: 3,190	2 months "may" not have been long enough. The fallow period for marine ich is 76 days to be 100% sure. Anything from a local fish store is potentially carrying ich. The mollies could have been exposed once in saltwater above hypo-salinity conditions via water changes, nets, aerosol, etc. I'm not sure if any of that helps you now...What I would do, is use Tank Transfer Method or copper on the blenny, mollies, and any new fish. Then place them in a clean tank while your display remains fallow (without fish) for 76 days. Tanks also should be as far apart as feasible to prevent splashing or aerosol transfer. Let's bug @HumbleFish while we're at it. __________________ Pat Current Tank Info: 125 in-wall , 40b sump. 6 bulb T5. ASM G2 skimmer. LPS and leathers

09/18/2019, 08:15 AM	#3
Dmorty217 Saltwater Addict Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Vandalia OHIO Posts: 11,624	+1^ The mollies got the ich from the tank(s) they were in at the LFS. You should really invest in another small tank for QT. You should assume all fish have at least one disease/problem if not several. __________________ Fish are not disposable commodities, but a worthwhile investment that can be maintained and enjoyed for many years, providing one is willing to take the time to understand their requirements and needs Current Tank Info: 625g, 220g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 3 MP60s, MP40. Several QTs

09/18/2019, 08:59 AM	#4
ThRoewer Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Fremont, CA Posts: 9,555	Cryptocaryon isn't really that difficult to deal with once you understand it. But there are some things most people don't know. Cryptocaryon cysts can go into a nearly indefinite (months, maybe up to a year or two) hibernation mode under certain conditions. Two of those are: - temperature below 19 °C - low oxygen/anaerobic conditions. Also, fish can aquire various levels of immunity against nearly every parasite there is. So just because a fish doesn't show symptoms doesn't mean it is free of pathogens. Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk __________________ Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio 3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...

09/18/2019, 09:52 AM	#5
kenpau Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: South Perth, Western Australia Posts: 844	This is really unfortunate but it does highlight the importance of quarantine for all incoming fish. There are various different methods of quarantining but we should all have a system in place for treating all fish before adding to the display, for the money it costs to run a QT there really is no justification for not having one. __________________ Current tank - 220 gallon mixed reef..Many thanks to Waterbox, Ecotech Marine, Neptune Systems, Pax Bellum, Nyos, Eheim and Hailea for creating my system..and making me poor!! Current Tank Info: 220 Gallon mixed reef

09/18/2019, 10:00 AM	#6
HumbleFish Moved On Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 4,757	Letting your LFS convert the black mollies to SW was the fatal flaw. Once they were in full seawater, cross contamination from another tank most likely occurred.

09/18/2019, 12:02 PM	#8
ClownReef® Bubbletrousing Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 1,872	Why do people cycle fish with freshwater fish? Go to the grocery store, buy A fresh shrimp, thrown it in your sump in a mesh bag and watch the tank cycle. Mollies...lol __________________ Waterbox Peninsula 5526 l Ecotech Radion XR30w G4 l Ecotech Vectra M1 l MP40QDW l Vertex Omega 180i l Tunze ATO l Apex Fusion l DOS l Trident l Ice Cap Scrubber

09/18/2019, 10:22 PM	#9
Cancun Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Saint Louis Missouri Posts: 527	Wow! Sorry for your troubles! I definitely know how frustrating that can be! I also agree that their must have been cross contamination at the LFS. I love my LFS, but in this hobby the only one I trust a 100% is me.....lol...I have made my share of mistakes over the years in this hobby for sure, but at least I had no one to blame but myself.... LOL. The advice on here from these guys is excellent. Probably not what you want to hear though. Good luck! Sent from my MHA-L29 using Tapatalk __________________ Red Sea Reefer 750 XXL...I love wrasses....have leopards....several Coris....China Wrasse, Dejardini and purple tang... Current Tank Info: Red Sea Reefer 750 XXL