Need advice on Seahorse environment

fishgate · 11/12/2014, 10:15 AM

I am re-purposing a freshwater tank for seahorses and pipe fish. It is a 120 gallon tank (48" wide). I want to do this totally on the cheap. So I want to put either a hang on back filter or continue to use my Fluval FX5 canister filter. So no skimmer and no sump.

As long as I keep up with water changes (15 gallons/week) do you think this can be a successful setup for seahorses and pipe fish?

Reefer140 · 11/12/2014, 10:54 AM

I do not see why not, I keep seahorses successfully with no skimmer. Keep up on water changes and maybe add some macro to keep water quality in a good range

vlangel · 11/12/2014, 11:13 AM

I agree. Also under stocking will help.

rayjay · 11/12/2014, 10:23 PM

I'm personally against canister filters as they require more work to clean out so it becomes all too easy to let it go without frequent cleanouts.
Because they trap organic matter, they become bedding and food for nasty bacteria and should be cleaned out weekly IMO.
Hang on Back filters do the same thing, trapping organics, but they are easier to clean and therefore less likely to be skipped for cleaning.
It is also going to depend on density of syngnathids you keep in the tank.
The more dense the population the more frequent the husbandry and extensive water changes. Water changes alone are NOT sufficient IMO.
For very light stocking density you may get by with 15g a week for some time, but for heavier stocking you will need larger changes most likely for the long term, especially as you won't have a skimmer.
Water quality is a priority for seahorse keeping, especially as the quality degrades over time, and as there are NO test kits for hobbyists to know when this quality has degraded to the point of being a problem as all the tests we can do for a reef tank can still be good and the water be too poor for seahorses.
IME, most seahorse deaths are a result of chemical imbalance internally, and of bacterial infections, both caused by their susceptibility to the poor water conditions that wouldn't affect most other reef fish.
Husbandry IME, has to be better than for maintaining a reef tank.
Before you add pipe fish with seahorses, please do some research on this as there are some successful tanks with both, but most attempts at this mixing end in failure, sometimes of both species.

Reefer140 · 11/16/2014, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayjay

I'm personally against canister filters as they require more work to clean out so it becomes all too easy to let it go without frequent cleanouts.
Because they trap organic matter, they become bedding and food for nasty bacteria and should be cleaned out weekly IMO.

I agree to a certain extent... Yes they will trap organic matter and will require frequent maintenance.. But I think weekly maintenance on an FX5 is a bit overboard.. I would say every couple weeks would be fine. But considering you already have the filter, I would say go for it..

Change out the filter and just monitor how clean/dirty it is getting between maintenance.. If its looking dirty at 3 weeks, try every 2, and if needed maybe go to weekly.. Hopefully it does not get to that extreme, but guess there is a chance that it may

rayjay · 11/16/2014, 10:08 PM

Well I hope your seahorses are more resistant to bacterial infections than most.
The reason for frequent clean out of mechanical filters of any kind is NOT because of how dirty they are, it's because the longer you let the trapped matter remain, the further the degree of decay which in turn leads to bacteria beds and lower quality water as much of the decay ends up as dissolved organics.
I've used canister filters in reef tanks for over 20 years and often only cleaned them out about once a month.
However, this never had an effect on my marine fish, but I learned the hard way when I got into seahorses back in 2002.

vlangel · 11/18/2014, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayjay

Well I hope your seahorses are more resistant to bacterial infections than most.
The reason for frequent clean out of mechanical filters of any kind is NOT because of how dirty they are, it's because the longer you let the trapped matter remain, the further the degree of decay which in turn leads to bacteria beds and lower quality water as much of the decay ends up as dissolved organics.
I've used canister filters in reef tanks for over 20 years and often only cleaned them out about once a month.
However, this never had an effect on my marine fish, but I learned the hard way when I got into seahorses back in 2002.

Rayjay, from reading your posts and some other experienced seahorse keepers I am getting it through my thick skull, (and preconcieved notions of marine aquariums) just how susceptible seahorses are to dangerous bacteria. If I am using a HOB filter with rubble rock in it, is running a bottle brush inside the cartridge area enough to shake loose detritus or should I periodic clean and run it with vinegar water the way folks clean their koralias? Should my protein skimmer be treated the same way as it is a HOB unit as well? I care very much for my new pets and desire to take the best care possible of them. Since I serviced tanks for a lfs I actually enjoy the maintenance and do twice a week water changes on my system, and have for years( even before I had seahorses). I intentionally set my tank up to be accessible and maintenance friendly. During those WCs I am diligent about changing out filter pads, floss and carbon every week. Any other areas of potential problems to keep an eye out for?

rayjay · 11/18/2014, 09:55 AM

In my early years of seahorse keeping when I used a HOB with rubble, once a week I removed the filter and dumped the rubble in a container to rinse in used tank water, and I used scrub pads (untreated dish ones) to clean the filter and then rinsed, replaced the rock and then replaced the filter.
Basically I was looking at removing the bacterial film from the container and rock, and removing trapped detritus before it decayed too much.
I never did frequent cleaning of any of my skimmers as the dissolved organics are removed by the bubbles, and, it takes too long for the skimmer to get back to full function again if you clean it completely.
Basically, what I learned the hard way when I got into seahorse keeping after many years of reef keeping, was that I DIDN'T know what I needed to know for best chance of success at keeping seahorses as my marine tanks had less need for water quality, in spite of the fact I THOUGHT I was keeping them all in excellent condition.
The number one recommendation I feel I can suggest to a new keeper is to OVERDO the husbandry and water changes.
Letting up for a short time may not produce known bad results at the time of neglect, but rather those results may show up far down the road where you are not likely to then connect the problem with the while ago let up.

vlangel · 11/18/2014, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayjay

In my early years of seahorse keeping when I used a HOB with rubble, once a week I removed the filter and dumped the rubble in a container to rinse in used tank water, and I used scrub pads (untreated dish ones) to clean the filter and then rinsed, replaced the rock and then replaced the filter.
Basically I was looking at removing the bacterial film from the container and rock, and removing trapped detritus before it decayed too much.
I never did frequent cleaning of any of my skimmers as the dissolved organics are removed by the bubbles, and, it takes too long for the skimmer to get back to full function again if you clean it completely.
Basically, what I learned the hard way when I got into seahorse keeping after many years of reef keeping, was that I DIDN'T know what I needed to know for best chance of success at keeping seahorses as my marine tanks had less need for water quality, in spite of the fact I THOUGHT I was keeping them all in excellent condition.
The number one recommendation I feel I can suggest to a new keeper is to OVERDO the husbandry and water changes.
Letting up for a short time may not produce known bad results at the time of neglect, but rather those results may show up far down the road where you are not likely to then connect the problem with the while ago let up.

Thank you, I will take that info about overdoing the husbrandry and water changes to heart.

bayfocus · 11/18/2014, 10:53 PM

I have keep seahorses with just hang on filter. As long as you do water changes and the water parameters are in check the will thrive.

11/12/2014, 10:15 AM	#1
fishgate Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Damascus, MD Posts: 3,340	Need advice on Seahorse environment I am re-purposing a freshwater tank for seahorses and pipe fish. It is a 120 gallon tank (48" wide). I want to do this totally on the cheap. So I want to put either a hang on back filter or continue to use my Fluval FX5 canister filter. So no skimmer and no sump. As long as I keep up with water changes (15 gallons/week) do you think this can be a successful setup for seahorses and pipe fish? __________________ 125RR in-wall, 40B Sump, CS180 BM Skimmer, ATI 4x80 watt, eheim 1262, custom wrap around rock wall, ReefKeeper Elite 120g in-wall, 40B Sump, PC 54wx4, Jabao DC-6000 (full siphon), future seahorse t Current Tank Info: 125g, 120g, 2x40b sumps, ATI 4x80 T5HO

11/12/2014, 10:23 PM	#4
rayjay Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 3,969	I'm personally against canister filters as they require more work to clean out so it becomes all too easy to let it go without frequent cleanouts. Because they trap organic matter, they become bedding and food for nasty bacteria and should be cleaned out weekly IMO. Hang on Back filters do the same thing, trapping organics, but they are easier to clean and therefore less likely to be skipped for cleaning. It is also going to depend on density of syngnathids you keep in the tank. The more dense the population the more frequent the husbandry and extensive water changes. Water changes alone are NOT sufficient IMO. For very light stocking density you may get by with 15g a week for some time, but for heavier stocking you will need larger changes most likely for the long term, especially as you won't have a skimmer. Water quality is a priority for seahorse keeping, especially as the quality degrades over time, and as there are NO test kits for hobbyists to know when this quality has degraded to the point of being a problem as all the tests we can do for a reef tank can still be good and the water be too poor for seahorses. IME, most seahorse deaths are a result of chemical imbalance internally, and of bacterial infections, both caused by their susceptibility to the poor water conditions that wouldn't affect most other reef fish. Husbandry IME, has to be better than for maintaining a reef tank. Before you add pipe fish with seahorses, please do some research on this as there are some successful tanks with both, but most attempts at this mixing end in failure, sometimes of both species. __________________ Seahorses. Culture nanno, rotifers and brine shrimp. Current Tank Info: Seahorses

11/16/2014, 10:08 PM	#6
rayjay Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 3,969	Well I hope your seahorses are more resistant to bacterial infections than most. The reason for frequent clean out of mechanical filters of any kind is NOT because of how dirty they are, it's because the longer you let the trapped matter remain, the further the degree of decay which in turn leads to bacteria beds and lower quality water as much of the decay ends up as dissolved organics. I've used canister filters in reef tanks for over 20 years and often only cleaned them out about once a month. However, this never had an effect on my marine fish, but I learned the hard way when I got into seahorses back in 2002. __________________ Seahorses. Culture nanno, rotifers and brine shrimp. Current Tank Info: Seahorses

11/18/2014, 09:55 AM	#8
rayjay Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 3,969	In my early years of seahorse keeping when I used a HOB with rubble, once a week I removed the filter and dumped the rubble in a container to rinse in used tank water, and I used scrub pads (untreated dish ones) to clean the filter and then rinsed, replaced the rock and then replaced the filter. Basically I was looking at removing the bacterial film from the container and rock, and removing trapped detritus before it decayed too much. I never did frequent cleaning of any of my skimmers as the dissolved organics are removed by the bubbles, and, it takes too long for the skimmer to get back to full function again if you clean it completely. Basically, what I learned the hard way when I got into seahorse keeping after many years of reef keeping, was that I DIDN'T know what I needed to know for best chance of success at keeping seahorses as my marine tanks had less need for water quality, in spite of the fact I THOUGHT I was keeping them all in excellent condition. The number one recommendation I feel I can suggest to a new keeper is to OVERDO the husbandry and water changes. Letting up for a short time may not produce known bad results at the time of neglect, but rather those results may show up far down the road where you are not likely to then connect the problem with the while ago let up. __________________ Seahorses. Culture nanno, rotifers and brine shrimp. Current Tank Info: Seahorses

11/12/2014, 10:54 AM	#2
Reefer140 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 57	I do not see why not, I keep seahorses successfully with no skimmer. Keep up on water changes and maybe add some macro to keep water quality in a good range

11/12/2014, 11:13 AM	#3
vlangel Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 2,409	I agree. Also under stocking will help.

11/18/2014, 10:53 PM	#10
bayfocus Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: victorville Posts: 11	I have keep seahorses with just hang on filter. As long as you do water changes and the water parameters are in check the will thrive.