Regenerating GFO

[bet77]

I'm using 4 cups of the High Capacity BRS GFO. I've neglected this system for a few years and I think my rock is leaching phosphate. The system is approx 350 gallons and 4 cups of the GFO last about 2 weeks. My first attempt of regenerating successfully removed all phosphate, but after rinsing with about 20 gallons of water the PH of my system spiked at 9.5.

This time around, I'm rinsing and testing PH, trying to get it closer to 9 before putting it back on the system. If it were a smaller amount of GFO, I wouldn't worry but with 4 cups it has a big impact.

[bet77]

I put the reactor in a 5 gallon bucket of RO water and used 1/4 cup of muratic acid and after 4 hours the output water's PH was 8.7. SUCCESS. Any reason that I shouldn't do this? Any better suggestions?

[bertoni]

That should be safe as long as you rinse the muriatic acid out well. That is a lot of media.

[tquinlan]

Originally Posted by dkeller_nc

For those looking to do this that read the Advanced Aquarist article: please do not set up a reactor and a pump to circulate 1M NaOH through GFO. This is really dangerous, as you're pressurizing a caustic chemical that will burn your skin and eyes faster than you can rinse it off. All it takes is a hose barb connection to come loose to get sprayed.

Not really an issue with a small pump that produces maybe 2 or 3 psi of pressure into a canister/reactor rated for 100 psi of pressure. There are no hose barbs on the BRS reactor. They are the same John Guest compression fittings that nearly all reefkeepers use on their RO/DI systems (which run at much much higher pressure from tap water). A leak may present as a slow drip, it's not going to spray across the room and blind people.

[bheron]

Ok so this is strange. I decided to do a large batch of this yesterday. I worked with the same batch of GFO, used the exact same ingredients and proportions, but did the steps in a slightly different order. So why does one batch look so different than the other?



Again I pulled from the same batch of used up GFO, added RODI from the same container, and used the same NaOH source (Roebic Crystal Drain Opener).

The only thing I did different was the ordering of the steps in the process:

For the first batch I added the NaOH to clean RODI first, then dumped the GFO into the solution. Realizing that order meant a risk of some of the solution splashing up at me, I changed the order for the second batch. This time I ddded the GFO to the RODI first then added the NaOH.

A few minutes later I checked the buckets and they look totally different. Group 2 is what i expected to see.

Really curious if anyone has any ideas.

[david00061]

It just looks a little bit rusty to me. I don't think it's a big deal. Just rinse alittle more between sokes

[bheron]

yep, the rusty look is what I'm used to seeing. but why the difference? was it simply b/c I changed the order of how I added things?

[bertoni]

I don't know, but it's possible some oxidation is the answer. The lye solution is more of a reducing environment.

[lantonini]

anyone able to confirm if this will work to regenerate?
http://www.amazon.com/CROWN-Making-A...1&keywords=lye

also what do you all use to rinse the GFO. Do you keep it in the bucket and flush with rodi a few times or do you place gfo in a strainer and rinse with rodi?

[drsalomon]

I get sodium hydroxide from thelyeguy.com. Pretty good price. Works great for gfo. I can only get brs high capacity to rgenerate. All other brands turn to mush in my experience

[bertoni]

The soap-grade lye will work, but it might have some contaminants that could be an issue. That's true of any product that's not food grade, though. I'd give it a try, personally.

[drsalomon]

Originally Posted by bertoni

The soap-grade lye will work, but it might have some contaminants that could be an issue. That's true of any product that's not food grade, though. I'd give it a try, personally.

I have used it now for a few years now to regenerate the GFO. I always wash extensively with 2x5gal of RODI after the two day NaOH treatment and have not noticed any problems that I could attribute to regeneration with my SPS and LPS. I use the BRS reactor to treat with lye and to wash with RODI. I did do a triton test a half a year ago of the tank water and there were no concerns with elevated trace heavy elements. High capacity GFO can shock the system by pulling out phosphate too quickly so I usually reduce the flow through the reactor to a minimal level for the first few days after I replace it.

I have not tried to regenerate without using an upflow reactor. Not sure how they compare to just incubation of GFO in bulk in a bucket The mj1200 on the upflow reactor does tend to get thrashed by the caustic solution. I had to replace the pump once in the 2 years I have been doing this.

I am able to regenerate ~10 times before the hc GFO gets too degraded. It actually turns out to be much cheaper than buying new low grade GFO from ebay and just swapping it out instead of regenerating.

[Darth Vedder]

I regenerated my first batch of BRS high capacity GFO last week, and definstly worked, but when I put the canister back in my tank both of my skimmers went and I had to adjust them quite a bit to keep them from overfilling in minutes. After about 1 day I was able to put them back to where they were

Is this common or did I not rinse the media with RODI thoroughly?

[tmz]

I never had skimmer issues after five or so rinses with ro water. Enough to remove any soapy feel.

[drsalomon]

Originally Posted by Darth Vedder

Is this common or did I not rinse the media with RODI thoroughly?

Did you notice a ph change when you put the GFO back in your system?

Are you treating with lye in a brs reactor? I use a brs reactor and treat about 3 cups of HC GFO with 3 gallons of the lye solution for 2 days and then wash with 10 gallon of RODI through the reactor to waste. I have not seen an impact on skimmer.

Also it is very important to greatly reduce the flow through the regenerated GFO in the reactor for the first two days to prevent shocking your system. The BRS HC GFO is really powerful stuff and I have seen countless times the triggering of STN on sensitive SPS coral if you put the new HC GFO in the reactor at full blast. I usually flow it at just a trickle for the first few days.

[Darth Vedder]

Yes I did regenerate it in a BRS style reactor. I made it myself with a filter canister and use the clear inserts BRS sells

I used lye and circulated that in a bucket for 4 days and rinsed with about 15-20 gallons of rodi water

Before I put it back in I tested the effluent of the rodi rinse with a Hanna UL phosphate Checker and it was 0 so I assumed it was rinsed

I didn't notice any oh spoke, just that the skimmers were producing a lot of foam (pretty much white and clean) so I had to crank the gate valves way down and by the next day I had to rank them back up to get anything to go up into the cup

I have the canister from the system regenerating now so when I switch it out next time I'll pay closer attention to see if it happens again and what else may be noticeable

It was almost like soap bubbles at first, thought it was odd but everything seems happy and phosphates were 0.04 for the tank the next day (was about 0.12 when I changed out cartridges)

Flow rate through the reactor is slow, using about 1.5-2 cups of HC GFO for 200 gallons of water in my multitask system

[ostrow]

I if anything used concentrations of muriatic and lye that were lower than recommended and the GFO turned to mush. Not sure how people are having success at this but it seems pretty bleak over here.

[jason2459]

Originally Posted by ostrow

I if anything used concentrations of muriatic and lye that were lower than recommended and the GFO turned to mush. Not sure how people are having success at this but it seems pretty bleak over here.

Are you using regular GFO or High Capacity? The HC GFO holds up much better IMO. Regular turned to mush for me as well when I tried it.

[ostrow]

Bulk GFO from Premium. Crud.

[dja1980]

Yep, I've heard others say the regular GFO turns to mush... you need to use the HC stuff if you want to regenerate. It's pricey upfront (1 gallon from BRS is around $130), but it comes out more cost effective if you're planning to regenerate. I've got about 2 gallons of the BRS HC stuff that I've been planning to regenerate, and I just don't have the time to mess with right now... so I've been buying the regular stuff and tossing it once it's exhausted. I'll probably just end up selling the exhausted HC stuff.

[ostrow]

Originally Posted by dja1980

Yep, I've heard others say the regular GFO turns to mush... you need to use the HC stuff if you want to regenerate. It's pricey upfront (1 gallon from BRS is around $130), but it comes out more cost effective if you're planning to regenerate. I've got about 2 gallons of the BRS HC stuff that I've been planning to regenerate, and I just don't have the time to mess with right now... so I've been buying the regular stuff and tossing it once it's exhausted. I'll probably just end up selling the exhausted HC stuff.

Oh, even without an acid wash it goes to mush? grr..

[dja1980]

Oh wow... good to know! I continue to use PA for a lot of my dry goods, but all my bulk supplies come from BRS. I had even asked them at one point if they would consider selling bulk lye for regeneration purposes, but they said it wasn't worth the safety concerns compared to a few dollars in GFO.

[dja1980]

Joel, I'd be happy to donate a few cups of my exhausted HC stuff if you want to play with regeneration... it's much more dense than the regular stuff.

[dkeller_nc]

BTW, I can't speak for other countries, but if you're in the US, lye is easy to get. You can have it shipped to you from any number of 'net sources, because it's not only used for opening drains (the reason hardware stores carry it), but also in artisanal soap-making and various food processing uses.

[dja1980]

I'm really surprised that BRS hasn't jumped on this... with the price of HC GFO being so high, I would think that they could push the regeneration process as a cost savings technique, and build a little more profit into the lye... win-win!