Phosphates

LandenReefer · 04/17/2018, 06:09 PM

I have an API Phosphate Test which reads at .25. I know they are not really reliable for low end testing so I am not sure how accurate it really is.

I have some Phosguard and am wondering if I should put it in.

Suggestions? Most of everything in the tank is looking good in the tank. I battled an algae problem which I finally beat so I don't want to have phosphates cause another outbreak.

Suggestions?

Anemone · 04/17/2018, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LandenReefer

I have an API Phosphate Test which reads at .25. I know they are not really reliable for low end testing so I am not sure how accurate it really is.

I have some Phosguard and am wondering if I should put it in.

Suggestions? Most of everything in the tank is looking good in the tank. I battled an algae problem which I finally beat so I don't want to have phosphates cause another outbreak.

Suggestions?

Your phosphate reading really doesn't tell us anything, absent your nitrate and alk readings. The types of corals you have (or want to have), and your lighting will also play a role in what the "right" answer to your question. Read this thread: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2672718

Kevin

LandenReefer · 04/17/2018, 06:13 PM

Sorry, Nitrates were 10 ppm and Alk was at 7. I am slowing raising the Alk up to 9.

phillipw · 04/18/2018, 05:06 PM

Do you have a sump or refugium?

Tripod1404 · 04/18/2018, 05:23 PM

I would get a PO4 kit that is more specific at low ranges before changing anything. Just by the looks of it, your alk is low compared to N and P. I would not use GFO or its derivatives as it would leave you with very low P and high N, a combination that causes coral death.

I dont think absolute values of PO4, NO3 and alk are that important as long as they are balanced. By balanced I mean one should not be high and others low, or vice versa. People have success with variety of values as long as they are reasonably balanced within themselves. But it is important to have a kit that is not saturated at lower end.

I think what is more important are trends. If you tank is slowly building up more PO4 or NO3 while you didn't change anything, it indicates something is going on with biofilter or nutrient demand of corals and algae. If you alk consumption is dropping, it indicates corals are slowly becoming less happy. And seeing trends require a test kit that is specific at lower ends and one that gives reproduceable results. If the kit itself has a high error rate, the trend will become hard to track because of the background noise.

LandenReefer · 04/18/2018, 06:23 PM

I currently have Clear FX Pro in my intank sump. I just run floss with the Clear FX. Cleaning consist of bi-weekly 4 gallon water changes using distilled water. I have an RO unit for drinking water but need to add a DI filter to it.

I ran a 29 a few years ago without using GFO and had much better coral growth and Coraline Algae growth. With this tank the coral growth seems slower so maybe I am over thinking things and doing a little too much.

Would it hurt to try and take out the Clear FX Pro? I ran Chemipure Elite prior this the CFX but my LFS suggested I try this instead.

RioReefr · 04/18/2018, 06:52 PM

I don't know the answer your question, but this is another article discusses why phosphates, nitrates, alkalinity and light together need to play nice...

http://reefinabox.com/right-alkalinity-coral-growth/

Maybe dKh at 7 is already fine.... maybe it needs to be 8.... just to shoot for 9 may not be ideal for your tank based on the other values.

LandenReefer · 04/18/2018, 06:56 PM

That was a good article. I also read the one that Anemone posted. Both point to the same thing, balance in Alk, Phos and Nitrates. I am going to slowly raise the Alk and see if that helps with growth.

ramseynb · 04/18/2018, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RioReefr

I don't know the answer your question, but this is another article discusses why phosphates, nitrates, alkalinity and light together need to play nice...

http://reefinabox.com/right-alkalinity-coral-growth/

Maybe dKh at 7 is already fine.... maybe it needs to be 8.... just to shoot for 9 may not be ideal for your tank based on the other values.

"and long polyp stony corals such as favia and lobophyllias"

"But acropora and most other short polyp stony corals"

Long and short? Wat? I almost had to stop reading.

ramseynb · 04/18/2018, 07:21 PM

Also, I'm not saying this is not true, but I'd like to see something more concrete and scientific about alk and nutrients. So far, all I've seen is opinion that tries to sound scientific. A true study of this would be nice.

Uncle99 · 04/18/2018, 07:41 PM

You could Carbon Dose with NOPox, that will bring your Nitrate down below 5 ppm and phosphate to .05 ppm, I believe these would be acceptable levels of nutrients for most corals, without overly feeding the green stuff...

Anemone · 04/18/2018, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripod1404

I would not use GFO or its derivatives as it would leave you with very low P and high N, a combination that causes coral death.

I can attest to this. I'm new to the GFO community (mostly an old-school reefer), and had tons of success in the past. Right now, I have a system that was running a phosphate reactor, had zero phosphates, 40 nitrates and an alk ranging from 8.5-10, and was killing coral.

I've cranked my lights down (to slow the growth use of phosphate), turned off the phosphate reactor, and have the phosphate slowly rising, and as it rises, I'm increasing the lighting, so the remaining coral (and coralline algae) growth will utilize the nitrates.

The hobby's current equipment allows us to have "ultra-clean" tanks, and IMO, this can create problems if not closely monitored (as it was in my case).

Kevin

ramseynb · 04/19/2018, 12:26 AM

Could it be that your alk ranging for 8-10.5 was killing your coral? Also, did you try lowering nitrates? Lowering nitrates has always been the easiest for me.

Anemone · 04/19/2018, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ramseynb

Could it be that your alk ranging for 8-10.5 was killing your coral? Also, did you try lowering nitrates? Lowering nitrates has always been the easiest for me.

No, the alk rise was intentional, and raising phosphates (and lighting) is actually a strategy toward lowering nitrates (ie, having them pulled out via both algal and coral growth).

Kevin

04/17/2018, 06:09 PM	#1
LandenReefer Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 22	Phosphates I have an API Phosphate Test which reads at .25. I know they are not really reliable for low end testing so I am not sure how accurate it really is. I have some Phosguard and am wondering if I should put it in. Suggestions? Most of everything in the tank is looking good in the tank. I battled an algae problem which I finally beat so I don't want to have phosphates cause another outbreak. Suggestions?

04/18/2018, 05:23 PM	#5
Tripod1404 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 1,821	I would get a PO4 kit that is more specific at low ranges before changing anything. Just by the looks of it, your alk is low compared to N and P. I would not use GFO or its derivatives as it would leave you with very low P and high N, a combination that causes coral death. I dont think absolute values of PO4, NO3 and alk are that important as long as they are balanced. By balanced I mean one should not be high and others low, or vice versa. People have success with variety of values as long as they are reasonably balanced within themselves. But it is important to have a kit that is not saturated at lower end. I think what is more important are trends. If you tank is slowly building up more PO4 or NO3 while you didn't change anything, it indicates something is going on with biofilter or nutrient demand of corals and algae. If you alk consumption is dropping, it indicates corals are slowly becoming less happy. And seeing trends require a test kit that is specific at lower ends and one that gives reproduceable results. If the kit itself has a high error rate, the trend will become hard to track because of the background noise. Last edited by Tripod1404; 04/18/2018 at 05:33 PM.

04/18/2018, 07:21 PM	#10
ramseynb Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: New Braunfels, TX Posts: 630	Also, I'm not saying this is not true, but I'd like to see something more concrete and scientific about alk and nutrients. So far, all I've seen is opinion that tries to sound scientific. A true study of this would be nice. __________________ How do you make an octopus laugh? Ten tickles!

04/19/2018, 12:26 AM	#13
ramseynb Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: New Braunfels, TX Posts: 630	Could it be that your alk ranging for 8-10.5 was killing your coral? Also, did you try lowering nitrates? Lowering nitrates has always been the easiest for me. __________________ How do you make an octopus laugh? Ten tickles!

04/17/2018, 06:13 PM	#3
LandenReefer Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 22	Sorry, Nitrates were 10 ppm and Alk was at 7. I am slowing raising the Alk up to 9.

04/18/2018, 05:06 PM	#4
phillipw Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Gaithersburg, Md Posts: 18	Do you have a sump or refugium?

04/18/2018, 06:23 PM	#6
LandenReefer Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 22	I currently have Clear FX Pro in my intank sump. I just run floss with the Clear FX. Cleaning consist of bi-weekly 4 gallon water changes using distilled water. I have an RO unit for drinking water but need to add a DI filter to it. I ran a 29 a few years ago without using GFO and had much better coral growth and Coraline Algae growth. With this tank the coral growth seems slower so maybe I am over thinking things and doing a little too much. Would it hurt to try and take out the Clear FX Pro? I ran Chemipure Elite prior this the CFX but my LFS suggested I try this instead.

04/18/2018, 06:52 PM	#7
RioReefr Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Rio de Janeiro Posts: 394	I don't know the answer your question, but this is another article discusses why phosphates, nitrates, alkalinity and light together need to play nice... http://reefinabox.com/right-alkalinity-coral-growth/ Maybe dKh at 7 is already fine.... maybe it needs to be 8.... just to shoot for 9 may not be ideal for your tank based on the other values.

04/18/2018, 06:56 PM	#8
LandenReefer Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 22	That was a good article. I also read the one that Anemone posted. Both point to the same thing, balance in Alk, Phos and Nitrates. I am going to slowly raise the Alk and see if that helps with growth.

04/18/2018, 07:41 PM	#11
Uncle99 Crab Free Zone Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,906	You could Carbon Dose with NOPox, that will bring your Nitrate down below 5 ppm and phosphate to .05 ppm, I believe these would be acceptable levels of nutrients for most corals, without overly feeding the green stuff...