Reef Central Online Community
Live Aquaria

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > Coral Forums > SPS Keepers
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 03/20/2017, 09:30 AM   #1
Potatohead
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,109
Are there any serious SPS keepers using NoPox?

I've been using NoPox for a while at a small dose, but it seems every time I try and increase it (very slowly) I get some issue. A couple months ago it was cyano. I had been dosing 4 ml into 70 gallons, cut it back to 1. Now over two months I have slowly increased to 3.5, starting to get hints of cyano again and two of my acros have started STN'ing very slowly on the shaded side. Even with the increased dose nitrate has only dropped from about 10-12 to 7-8, so not a huge change. I also notice my polyp extension is less than before on several corals, although several other corals also seem unaffected. I cut my dose in half yesterday as I don't want to go cold turkey just yet.

I am not 100% sure NoPox is my issue but it seems to lean that direction. I have an extra dosing pump and I would prefer not to run another pump for biopellets or a chaeto reactor if I don't have to. I do not have a refugium so I do feel I need some type of nutrient reduction going.

Should I try vinegar? Switch to something else like a KZ product or similar? Just keep NoPox on a small dose and keep nitrate around 10? I'd like to keep some form of dosing even in a tiny amount because I can go about 7-10 days without cleaning the glass and only 2-3 without, but obviously at the end of the day I want to do what is best for the tank.


Thanks


Potatohead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/20/2017, 11:27 AM   #2
Pife
Registered Member
 
Pife's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 5,302
It is just a carbon source.


__________________
I'm not saying let's get rid of all the stupid people.* I'm just saying let's remove all the warning labels and let the problem work itself out.

Current Tank Info: 150DD getting closer. 80g frag tank and 220 sump in the basement.
Pife is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03/20/2017, 04:47 PM   #3
jda
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,648
Sugar, vinegar or vodka can do the same thing. I am not sure what is in NoPox, but it is something very similar. I won't ever dose a carbon source on a reef tank, but when I did it on a FO, I just used sugar - it was clean/pure, cheap and easy to measure.

I don't think that you will gain anything from switching, though.


jda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/20/2017, 06:02 PM   #4
organism
code monkey
 
organism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: santa ana
Posts: 6,312
I think nopox is methanol or something along those lines, basically the same as vodka as far as your tank is concerned. Keep in mind phosphates drop along with the nitrates and you don't want those getting too low. My guess is it's something else in your water chemistry though, that is not a big dose at all in a tank that size. I do 10ml of vodka in my 90ish gallon but I feed 3-4x a day.

On a side note 5-10 is a good range for nitrates, it's where I keep mine.


__________________
I don't always grow frags... but when I do, I prefer Dos Acros
organism is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/20/2017, 06:38 PM   #5
zsuman101
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 310
one important factor with any carbon dosing is you must have efficient nutrient export, either by skimming or corals utilizing the carbon dosing by product. im a zeo guy, and with carbon dosing if you over do food, aminos, additives, or under skim you can have problems. good luck. zsu


__________________
Full zeovit 24x24 starfire ati t5 radions ecotech and sicce pumps tunze skimmer apex gold yeah its nuts
zsuman101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/20/2017, 06:43 PM   #6
zsuman101
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 310
one thing ive learned with zeo is run the biggest tank and or sump you can, the more water the better. my sump is the same size as my display and im thinking about going bigger on the sump. its just so much easier when params dont jump around


__________________
Full zeovit 24x24 starfire ati t5 radions ecotech and sicce pumps tunze skimmer apex gold yeah its nuts
zsuman101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/20/2017, 09:15 PM   #7
Potatohead
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,109
From what I have researched NoPox is basically 60% vinegar and 40% vodka, although according to Red Sea it's a little more complicated than that.

I came home tonight and there's a bit more cyano so I have cut my dose down to 1 ml from about 3.5 it was before. I have only five small fish, small cuc, feed pellets on auto feeder (small amount) twice a day and frozen once. Pretty light load.

Here's the deal;

- Tank is three months old, rock is eleven months old. Started originally with dry rock
- I have a good skimmer
- running GFO in a reactor and carbon in a bag in sump baffle

I don't really feel my water can be much better;

Salinity 1.0255-1.026
Calcium 430-440
Alk 7.7 - 8.0. I test every day and 90% of the time it's 7.8 or 7.9
Mag 1320
Nitrate 7-8
Phosphate .02-.06 depending on what I feed

My tank is doing ok but can certainly be better. I have an eight bulb Sunpower over it which should be tons of light, I started conservatively with it 16" above water and 5 hour main photoperiod, 7 hour total. I'm now at 13" and 6.5 main 8.5 total, so I'm probably halfway to where I will end up, too little light intensity could certainly be the issue. I have some corals like setosa and acans doing great, a Cali tort growing like crazy, but some others just existing and kind of meh.

I'm concerned however about stopping NoPox altogether as other than skimmer and gfo I have no other means of nutrient reduction. No fuge, no pellets, no scrubber, etc.


Potatohead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/20/2017, 09:58 PM   #8
drawman
Registered Member
 
drawman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Mankato, MN
Posts: 831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Potatohead View Post
From what I have researched NoPox is basically 60% vinegar and 40% vodka, although according to Red Sea it's a little more complicated than that.

I came home tonight and there's a bit more cyano so I have cut my dose down to 1 ml from about 3.5 it was before. I have only five small fish, small cuc, feed pellets on auto feeder (small amount) twice a day and frozen once. Pretty light load.

Here's the deal;

- Tank is three months old, rock is eleven months old. Started originally with dry rock
- I have a good skimmer
- running GFO in a reactor and carbon in a bag in sump baffle

I don't really feel my water can be much better;

Salinity 1.0255-1.026
Calcium 430-440
Alk 7.7 - 8.0. I test every day and 90% of the time it's 7.8 or 7.9
Mag 1320
Nitrate 7-8
Phosphate .02-.06 depending on what I feed

My tank is doing ok but can certainly be better. I have an eight bulb Sunpower over it which should be tons of light, I started conservatively with it 16" above water and 5 hour main photoperiod, 7 hour total. I'm now at 13" and 6.5 main 8.5 total, so I'm probably halfway to where I will end up, too little light intensity could certainly be the issue. I have some corals like setosa and acans doing great, a Cali tort growing like crazy, but some others just existing and kind of meh.

I'm concerned however about stopping NoPox altogether as other than skimmer and gfo I have no other means of nutrient reduction. No fuge, no pellets, no scrubber, etc.
Agreed nopox is pretty much just ethanol and vinegar. Even though your rock is a little older I wonder if it's a little early for the tank to need the carbon dosing.


__________________
Tim

Current tanks:
30 gallon rimless, G2 radion, Vertex 130, MP10w
60 gallon rimless, G3 radion, Vertex 130, MP40QD
drawman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/21/2017, 12:29 AM   #9
Potatohead
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,109
Alright

I'm going to skim wetter, as I admittedly have been skimming on the dry side. Red Sea says to skim wet but I'm a stubborn doofus. This could be leading to a bacteria or carbon buildup and causing the cyano. I'm also going to keep the nopox dose at 1ml until I see improvement and maybe dose a bit of Stability daily to hopefully get good bacteria taking over from the bad.



Last edited by Potatohead; 03/21/2017 at 12:35 AM.
Potatohead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/21/2017, 06:40 AM   #10
StarF
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denmark
Posts: 580
it contains aspartic acid aswell


StarF is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03/21/2017, 07:35 AM   #11
jda
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,648
Your tank is three months old. All of this is not only quite normal, but also quite necessary. You need to stop with all chemical additives (GFO too) and let it finish cycling - this can take six to nine months or even a year before it is effective at handling NO3 and swapping P well. You are just stalling this by using all of this stuff. There is nothing that you can do to speed this up. Eventually, you will wind up with no NO3 and just a trace of P, have lots of pods with coralline and sponges everywhere and then you are done. Just keep the big 3 stable and wait.


jda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/21/2017, 08:21 AM   #12
hbrochs
Registered Member
 
hbrochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Westchester, NY
Posts: 394
Patience

Quote:
Originally Posted by jda View Post
Your tank is three months old. All of this is not only quite normal, but also quite necessary. You need to stop with all chemical additives (GFO too) and let it finish cycling - this can take six to nine months or even a year before it is effective at handling NO3 and swapping P well. You are just stalling this by using all of this stuff. There is nothing that you can do to speed this up. Eventually, you will wind up with no NO3 and just a trace of P, have lots of pods with coralline and sponges everywhere and then you are done. Just keep the big 3 stable and wait.
Agree with this, its so hard to just watch it, we always want to do something.


__________________
80 Gallon Innovative Marine long shallow reef
30 Gallon tank for raising baby clownfish

Current Tank Info: Innovative Marine SR-80
hbrochs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03/21/2017, 08:27 AM   #13
Stolireef
Premium Member
 
Stolireef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Scottsdale AZ
Posts: 2,662
Blog Entries: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by jda View Post
Your tank is three months old. All of this is not only quite normal, but also quite necessary. You need to stop with all chemical additives (GFO too) and let it finish cycling - this can take six to nine months or even a year before it is effective at handling NO3 and swapping P well. You are just stalling this by using all of this stuff. There is nothing that you can do to speed this up. Eventually, you will wind up with no NO3 and just a trace of P, have lots of pods with coralline and sponges everywhere and then you are done. Just keep the big 3 stable and wait.
Yep. Cyano is basically unavoidable on a new tank no matter what you do. That's the one nuisance that I never worry about. It'll go away just with time and good husbandry. Same thing with things like diatoms and jumpy nitrates and phosphates.


__________________
I want to burn twice as bright and half as long. Oh, and a full tank crash is just an excuse for a new build.

Current Tank Info: 110 Rimless Leemar, Apex, Trigger 30 Elite Sump, Vertex 180i Skimmer, 2x250 Halides 2xT5 Actinics, BM Doser, 2xMP40WES, 2xTunze 6095, Sicce Syncra 4.0.
Stolireef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/21/2017, 08:35 AM   #14
jda
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,648
Additionally, you are going to have the standard "dry rock" issues that will require attention, but the cycle needs to happen first. A reasonable timeline might be this time next year - most dry rock really slows stuff down.


jda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/21/2017, 11:29 AM   #15
Potatohead
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,109
I don't know how much of a cycle I will have, I used all the rock and sand from my old tank which was about eight months old when I upgraded. If you are referring to a "N&P" cycle and not the typical ammonia/nitrogen cycle, then I probably agree. It also does seem dry rock takes longer for sure. I do have four litres of Matrix in my sump as well.

I will just keep on keeping on. I don't really want to just let it go because I do have a bunch of nice corals in there, if it takes another couple months beyond what is considered normal, I guess that is ok. Agree with the poster saying it's hard to leave it alone, it's not hard, it's frigging agony (lol).

I do have a good sponge population, in fact I have one spaghetti sponge that is kind of invasive and growing a lot, if anyone knows anything I can do about that thing, I'm all ears. Manual removal is fine but it just grows back.


Potatohead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/22/2017, 04:30 AM   #16
Myka
Reefing since '93
 
Myka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: SK, Canada
Posts: 2,403
I'd agree with just letting things be. All I have on my tank for nutrient reduction is a skimmer and a couple liters of Siporax (which I don't think are denitrifying how I have it placed). NO3 and po4 are undetectable and I'm constantly trying to add nutrients. You don't need to add nutrients reducing methods unless you're overfeeding or overstocked. It will balance out if you give it some time. I agree that a year is about right - maybe 18 months. New tanks suck!


__________________
~ Mindy, SPS addict.

Current Tank Info: 69 SPS (73 gal net) established July 1/15. (HBD Canada!) ATB 840, ATI 6-bulb dimmable. Aquaforest balling (only) since Apr 18/16.
Myka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 10:47 PM   #17
zsuman101
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 310
i like mykas siporax idea, im not a fan of gfo ime it causes problems. i run three reefs only one is zeo and you dont use gfo on a zeo tank, the other two are just your run of the mill avg. reefs and no gfo on them either, i have tried gfo but it takes out all the po4 and thats as bad as high levels. you need some po4 to keep no3 low. anyway i like the siporax idea and am going to try it myself on my normal reefs. good luck n stuff zsu


__________________
Full zeovit 24x24 starfire ati t5 radions ecotech and sicce pumps tunze skimmer apex gold yeah its nuts
zsuman101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:01 AM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2017 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2014