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07/20/2009, 01:51 AM | #26 |
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Sorry to hear that Peter
Andy, can you snap a pic............I'd love to see those Plebius.
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80g Rimless Acropora System reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2197142&page=31 Ed |
07/20/2009, 07:23 AM | #27 | |
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Quote:
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Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT. |
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07/20/2009, 08:08 AM | #28 |
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Yeah, I can see that with aurigas. Plebius are supposed to be mild enough to be kept in groups. I guess not.
I don't have a very recent picture as I really need to clean up their tank and I'm going crazy trying to raise some seahorse babies. But here's an older one:
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--Andy "And chase the frothy bubbles, / While the world is full of troubles. . . ." --W. B. Yeats Current Tank Info: ~480 gal. display, ~1,400 gal. system |
07/21/2009, 03:06 AM | #29 |
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Very nice Andy................how long have you had them?
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80g Rimless Acropora System reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2197142&page=31 Ed |
07/21/2009, 08:37 AM | #30 |
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I think it's been since around April.
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--Andy "And chase the frothy bubbles, / While the world is full of troubles. . . ." --W. B. Yeats Current Tank Info: ~480 gal. display, ~1,400 gal. system |
07/21/2009, 12:42 PM | #31 |
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Those little guys are cool. I know a guy who had a few Plebius in his 240 for about 2 years. They always stayed together. Might have just been luck of the draw with yours taking out the 3rd wheel?
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07/21/2009, 05:22 PM | #32 |
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Maybe. It may be that they have no tankmates to curb the within-species aggression.
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--Andy "And chase the frothy bubbles, / While the world is full of troubles. . . ." --W. B. Yeats Current Tank Info: ~480 gal. display, ~1,400 gal. system |
07/27/2009, 10:49 PM | #33 |
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Here's a shot from tonight. Sorry the glass is so gross. You can see that one is getting the blue spot. They are still awfully small.
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--Andy "And chase the frothy bubbles, / While the world is full of troubles. . . ." --W. B. Yeats Current Tank Info: ~480 gal. display, ~1,400 gal. system |
12/07/2009, 12:15 PM | #34 |
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OK, so I'm trying this again. Fresh start
I have a 20g QT with just the basics. Light, powerhead, heater, and hangon filter. A little bit of liverock for biological filtration as well. There was a large selection of yellow longnose butterflies, so I decided to try those. Previous experiences with this fish have been poor, with respect to pairing. So the first thing I did was net a somewhat larger specimen from the group of "smalls" and add it to a large holding container. Then there were maybe two or three other candidates in the "small" group that I would consider (looking/acting normally, no injuries, etc.) Each one that I tried to place in the same conatiner as the first was immediately attacked by the first. You'd think aggression would take a back seat to the stress of being netted and moved around. Nope. Finally, I tried a new approach. I took one of the best looking ones from the group of "mediums", and added one of the three small ones to the conatiner with it. No go; the big one attacked the smaller one. Switched out the small one with another. They circled each other a couple times, and that was it. No problem. So, whether it's just a size issue, a sex issue, or both, I can't say. I took these two home with me. They were of course bagged separately. After acclimation, separately, I aded the larger one to the QT first. I added the smaller one next. Again, checked each other out for a moment, and then proceeded to follow each other while picking for food in the live rock. I'm thinking this is great. I add some food, and there is definitely some aggression from the larger fish while eating. I was worried, but a friend of mine that had a true, collected pair of butterflies before said that he too observed this aggression during feeding. It was not severe at all, just a little "back off" stance here and there. Otherwise they get along well. Time will tell...
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Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT. |
12/07/2009, 02:23 PM | #35 |
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Wow, shows how just picking any two at random from the LFS would have virtually no shot at success. Hope this works out for you - it would be very cool if it does. These are very underrated fish, in my opinion - really interesting shape and nice color.
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12/07/2009, 08:23 PM | #36 |
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Thank you. I agree, very cool fish. I especially love that dorsal fin!
Well, they both eat like pigs, and now show zero aggression to each other while eating. In fact, they will both bite at the same piece of food at the same time, and not even flare a fin. Hopefully things progress well.
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Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT. |
12/08/2009, 01:44 AM | #37 |
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It was nice for you to be able to see how they initially would get along at the LFS. Good luck with them.
I'm not sold on size meaning anything. It never matter when I paired them, but I always used a group of fish & let them pair on their own.
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80g Rimless Acropora System reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2197142&page=31 Ed |
12/08/2009, 02:29 AM | #38 |
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SD, not sure I missed it, but interested to know what happened to the Saddleback?
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12/08/2009, 10:52 AM | #39 | |
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Velvet, or the subsequent copper treatment, or both, took out the saddleback, a yellow longnose, the other pearlscale, and even my stunning multicolor angel. That was the worst part.
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Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT. |
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12/12/2009, 10:07 AM | #40 |
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The YLNs are doing well. The smaller one obviously has a bit of a harder time eating, since it requires TINY foods. Mini mysis work well, but finely minced scallop from the grocery store has been the best to fatten them both up (probably because it is pure "meat" - no prickly heads, legs, etc. ). I saw a little bit of ich, however, so I removed the cleaner shrimp, and began very low dose cupramine. As I mentioned, I've had pretty bad luck with copper and BF before, but then again, that was when trying to battle velvet.
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Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT. |
12/26/2009, 08:04 AM | #41 |
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Update: Both YLN were doing well as of the 18th. However, some time after I left for vacation, the larger one either got an infection or injured his mouth in some way. They are in meds right now:
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Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT. |
12/30/2009, 07:07 AM | #42 |
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First an update. After a few days in nitrofuracin, the large butterfly began eating, and sloughed off, for lack of a better term, a bunch of "stuff" off his nose. Did a water change last night. Both are eating aggressively again.
One observation. If they don't get fed enough, there is a little bit of aggression during feeding. It seems hunger trumps the bonds of matrimony
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Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT. |
12/30/2009, 08:04 AM | #43 |
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Great fish Umm fish? and SD guy. Thanks for posting your experience.
I figured I would post my experience with Yellow Pyramid Butterfllyfish. About 1 1/2 (or longer) years ago I purchased three from LA. They were close to 4" and thick and healthy. I had threm quarantined in a 30 gal cube. Since the tank was so small I added lots of flow and they seemed happy. They got along well, never bickered at all. I fed them about 8 times a day which they need in my opinion. Roughly 6 weeks later they started acting funny. Long story short I lost two to flukes. By the time I learned what it was it was too late for those two but I was able to save one. After treatment and more quarantine time he went into a temporary 75 gal display. BTW Live Aquaria gave me full credit even though it was a month after the guarantee, amazing company. I purchased two more YP and put them into quarantine. They arrived in horrible condition (not from LA.) They were emaciated and had clear signs of flukes. I promptly treated them. I also let the vendor know of their condition but explained that I would do everything to nurse them back to health. I kept them in quarantine for roughly 2 1/2 months. They became plump and healthy. They also grew from 3" to about 3.5". Al three of the butterflies were added to a 280 gallon tank. They immediately swam together also without any signs of aggression ever. Fast forward 1 1/2 years later I moved but took my babies along with me. Long story short I had them several months at the new place and lost them between two seperate occasions that were stupid mistakes on my part. They were all over 4" : ( Now I have 3 new 3" YPs in a 75 gal quarantine. The smallest one chases the other two several times a day, not extremely aggressively but enough. I sectioned him with eggcrate. The other two get along with occasional chasing. This puzzles me since the other five never showed anything like this. I'm sure they will be fine in the 357 gal since they're pretty much fine now but it makes me miss my other beauties more. They were pals. So I'm wondering if my previous fish were all females or maybe one male and the rest females. I am considering adding two more to my current mix. Maybe 5 would spread out the aggression or keep it in check. I know several RC members here have groups of these fish. I think I'll hunt them down and ask about theirs. Anyway that's my experience with Yellow Pyramid Butterflies. Hopefully someone finds it useful.
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12/30/2009, 09:20 AM | #44 |
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Great info! Thanks for sharing. I wonder if heniochus, pyramid, zoster etc butterflies have different dynamics as compared to chaetodon species that are almost always found in bonded pairs, exclusively?
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Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT. |
12/30/2009, 10:43 AM | #45 | |
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Quote:
Thanks, Chihuahua! I'm sorry to hear about your flukes and other issues. Good luck with the new ones.
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01/06/2010, 09:14 AM | #46 |
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The YLN are out of meds as of Sunday. Both look perfect, and eat like total pigs. I'm hoping to get them onto flakes and/or pellets now (GL, I know....)
Regarding the aggression during feeding, it seems to be getting worse. I am assuming this is a function of them being so hungry by the time I get home from work (I leave my house at 6am so they don't get fed in the mornings). The larger one actually slashed at the smaller one with its dorsal spines. Again, this in only during feeding time though. My previous experiences with this fish when they don't get along with each other is that they will flare even at the sight of each other. These two are fine when not eating. Thoughts on my theory?
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Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT. |
01/06/2010, 09:30 AM | #47 |
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How often are you feeding them now? Hmm. And they aren't on pellets yet. Any possibility of putting some live rock in with them once they are off meds so they have something to pick at during the day? Just something to take the edge off so they don't kill each other until they get home? How many hiding spots do they have? Maybe some PVC fittings or something so they can get out of sight of each other while they are eating?
What helped me with the plebius was a sponge filter in the tank. Pellets and other foods would get stuck in the sponge and would give the fish something to pick at between feedings. Since they like to pick food out of crevices it made it somewhat familiar to them. Maybe something along those lines?
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--Andy "And chase the frothy bubbles, / While the world is full of troubles. . . ." --W. B. Yeats Current Tank Info: ~480 gal. display, ~1,400 gal. system |
01/06/2010, 09:35 AM | #48 |
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Well, they first get fed around 4pm, and then several times again until about 8. You could call it one long extended feeding of tiny portions, I guess
I have not even tried pellets of flake yet, since I didn't want to introduce uneaten food during meds. Does anyone know if YLN will eat pellets/flake, or are they like copperbands? I have put a little LR rubble in the tank. I was nervous about putting hiding places like large PVC, thinking that with "territiories" the aggression would escalate? I can give it a go, though. And the sponge filter trick is a nice idea. I can try that too. Thanks!
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Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT. |
01/06/2010, 11:51 AM | #49 |
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I would add some PVC so they can get out of sight. I think it would ease aggression not escalate it. As for feedings why not drop in a couple clams before work, so that one can't just guard the clam or food that is being fed from the other. Maybe place them on opposite sides of the tank, but continue the other feedings in the afternoon/evening too.
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01/06/2010, 12:00 PM | #50 |
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It's a small QT tank (20g) so I'm concerned about leaving food in there, and water quality. I will get some large PVC in there to see it that helps or hurts. While I understand that this will ease immediate aggression, I don't want it to backfire (ie them getting used to not seeing each other, so getting more aggressive when they then do see each other).
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Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT. |
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