Intelligent Design / Natural Filtration

[Misled]

Originally Posted by OllieNZ

The source of N is most likely urea or ammonia, which technically makes it a hazardous substance.

Originally Posted by Subsea

Misled,
It means that we have too many lawyers. Perhaps we should take Platoe's advice, "First we kill the lawyers"."

I like the latter better!!!

[Subsea]

Originally Posted by Paul B

When I started my reef the only book available was Robert Straughn's "The Salt Water Aquarium in the Home" which I think I still have. In there someplace (it could have been another publication at the time as my 50 year old memories faded substantially) he advised adding garden soil to start the tank. I don't remember if I ever did this and have no idea if that would have any benefits but even though I use a lot of strange methods the thought of that does scare me a little.
I realize many people don't live near the sea. I don't know why not, but that is a fact.
I know they sell bacteria in a bottle which I feel is silly but it would be nice if someone (not me) sold and shipped fresh mud from some clean, muddy bay like from where I live. It is probably not legal because some congressman will say if you do that you may get a batch of invasive arrow crabs in Arizona or an octopus plague in Lake Titicoca. (wherever that is)

Paul,
You and I are dinosours to this hobby. My first book was written by Martin Moe in the mid 1960's. Just after putting a man on the moon, he said about the reef aquarium hobby and marine biology in general, "It's not rocket science, it is more complicated". I use the KISS principal. Keep it simple, stupid. The bugs know what to do. They self regulate complex nutrient pathways and produce food for reef inhabitants. In a previous career of waste water treatment, we stressed bacteria with low oxygen levels to promote phosphate uptake. In a recent thread, Advanced Topics, on this forum, it was noted that SPS corals survived thermal stress due to higher phosphate concentrations in their body mass.
From my perspective, I am enjoying the ride.
Patrick

[Subsea]

Jaubert Plenum uses a false bottom below sandbed. Until Julian Sprung and Charles Deelbric published Reef Aquarium Volume III, there was little substantiated literature that the plenum accomplished anything. The biggest reason that laboratory test could produce no differrenceis was because of the short duration of test.
This method uses bacteria to perform nitrification then in the depths of the sandbed denitrification chemistry. The use of large substrate, Caribsea Florida Crushed Coral, at 2mm-5mm provides a greater depth for reduced oxygen conditions. This means more faculative bacteria and more denitrification. The single most important thing about this method is to keep detritus from penetrating into sandbed. Janitors at the surface should include micro stars and the two pod brothers, amphipods and copepods. Everyday, I would stir the top 1" of sandbed with numerous feathers coming out to eat: feather dusters and sea apples. To complete the maintenance on this method the sand should be vacuumed once a week.

[Timfish]

Originally Posted by Misled

Milorganite . . .

This is at the bottom of Miracle Grows website:

Disposal Methods


Empty box: can be offered for recycling or disposed of in regular trash

Unused product: We recommend you use all product. If you do not wish to use, could give it to a friend or neighbor. Otherwise, we recommend contacting your local refuse company to inquire about a Household Hazardous waste pick-up.

What the heck does that mean???

Like Subsea said "Too many lawyers" :/

From the MSDS for handling Calcium Carbonate "Personal Protection:
Splash goggles. Lab coat. Dust respirator. Be sure to use an approved/certified respirator or equivalent. Gloves" and it has a health hazard of 2 (out of a maximum of 4)

[provost_reefers]

Originally Posted by Subsea

Jaubert Plenum uses a false bottom below sandbed. Until Julian Sprung and Charles Deelbric published Reef Aquarium Volume III, there was little substantiated literature that the plenum accomplished anything. The biggest reason that laboratory test could produce no differrenceis was because of the short duration of test.
This method uses bacteria to perform nitrification then in the depths of the sandbed denitrification chemistry. The use of large substrate, Caribsea Florida Crushed Coral, at 2mm-5mm provides a greater depth for reduced oxygen conditions. This means more faculative bacteria and more denitrification. The single most important thing about this method is to keep detritus from penetrating into sandbed. Janitors at the surface should include micro stars and the two pod brothers, amphipods and copepods. Everyday, I would stir the top 1" of sandbed with numerous feathers coming out to eat: feather dusters and sea apples. To complete the maintenance on this method the sand should be vacuumed once a week.

So, I've got the O.K. to upgrade from my 46 gallon BF to a 5' 150 gallon. this will be the biggest tank I've ever owned and we have no plans to move for 20 years so I really want to get this right. I am still leaning toward the plenum due to desire to have some sand dwelling gobies, lots of bio-diversity and really don't like the look of BB. I will be adding the MM to the refugium with a layer of sand over top. I plan to use short sections of PVC pipe upturned to elevate rock from the substrate for max exchange. Does this sound like a recipe for success?? Any other suggestions on this part?

Also, I have a little time before set-up, do you think I could jump start the cycling process by putting some of the substrate in a bucket with a powerhead and adding a piece of shrimp? The bucket would be outside so wouldn't be heated, would the bacteria be the same?

Thank you for any feedback.

[Buzz1329]

Haven’t read the complete thread (booooo!) but how did we get from intelligent design to miracle mud? Is MM part of god’s plan?

Also, it was Shakespeare's character, Jack Cade in Henry VI, Part 2, not Plato, who wanted to kill all the lawyers.

Just saying.

[Subsea]

Originally Posted by Buzz1329

Haven’t read the complete thread (booooo!) but how did we get from intelligent design to miracle mud? Is MM part of god’s plan?

Also, it was Shakespeare's character, Jack Cade in Henry VI, Part 2, not Plato, who wanted to kill all the lawyers.

Just saying.

Yes,I would say that miracle mud is part of God's plan.

The reason that I used Plato was because it illustrated that the problem goes further back than Shaespeare's time.

[Subsea]

Originally Posted by provost_reefers

So, I've got the O.K. to upgrade from my 46 gallon BF to a 5' 150 gallon. this will be the biggest tank I've ever owned and we have no plans to move for 20 years so I really want to get this right. I am still leaning toward the plenum due to desire to have some sand dwelling gobies, lots of bio-diversity and really don't like the look of BB. I will be adding the MM to the refugium with a layer of sand over top. I plan to use short sections of PVC pipe upturned to elevate rock from the substrate for max exchange. Does this sound like a recipe for success?? Any other suggestions on this part?

Also, I have a little time before set-up, do you think I could jump start the cycling process by putting some of the substrate in a bucket with a powerhead and adding a piece of shrimp? The bucket would be outside so wouldn't be heated, would the bacteria be the same?

Thank you for any feedback.

Sand dwelling gobies need substrate of the right grain size of sandy silt. The Jaubert Plenum uses a course substrate to extend oxygen deep into bed. IMO, the DSB discribed by Ron Schmeck would best serve your goals. I see no need foe a plenum if you are using sand silt for gobies. I like your using pvc pipe to elevate rock out of substrate. Substrate in a bucket means bacteria, that is a good move.

Also, with respect to putting substrate over MM, I am not understanding your goal.

[provost_reefers]

Let us get back to my 20 year old set up. A 75G Jaubert Plenumn on top with a 30G Eco System mud filter with refugium on bottom.

As far as adding substrate on top of the MM, I must have misunderstood your original post where you say you grew the macro 'above that". You also state you have never purchased MM, are you using some other type of mud in your mudfilter?

The DSB worries me more than the plenum, maybe I'll consider jawfish - still very active and fun to watch.

[Subsea]

In effect my mud filter was a settling basin for detritus. Worms lived in this matrix and reproduced. I bought the set up used, so I don't really know what was in the mud. I kept it for 10 years until a red planaria infestation.

[Subsea]

Originally Posted by NS Mike D

i found the scientific write up easy to follow and very useful, especially the part part about how most bacteria won't produce the enzymes that break down sludge if soluble micro nutrients are present.

than you for posting the link

In the situation that you mentioned, bacteria can take more than one path. Instead of producing enzymes to break down sludge, certain bacteria will absorb soluable nutrients instead.

Cynobacteria embedded in coral will produce nitrate when other sources of nitrate are gone. Backup nitrogen source.
Randy Holmes Farley discribes a biofeedback loop in which cynobacteria converts inorganic phosphate into organic phosphate. Then combined with nitrogen fixation produces nitrogen.

Bacteria do it all.

https://www.tlc-products.com/pdf/HOW...RIA%20WORK.pdf

[NS Mike D]

Originally Posted by Subsea

In the situation that you mentioned, bacteria can take more than one path. Instead of producing enzymes to break down sludge, certain bacteria will absorb soluable nutrients instead.

Cynobacteria embedded in coral will produce nitrate when other sources of nitrate are gone. Backup nitrogen source.
Randy Holmes Farley discribes a biofeedback loop in which cynobacteria converts inorganic phosphate into organic phosphate. Then combined with nitrogen fixation produces nitrogen.

Bacteria do it all.

https://www.tlc-products.com/pdf/HOW...RIA%20WORK.pdf

Thank you. I think I followed that. My take away with cyano (from this and other threads) is that it is not a simple as just removing NO3 and PO4 from your tank to rid of cyano and that chasing zeros can lead to unintended consequences and not the desired goal.


Jason has a thread in which he is posting video and photos from his microscope. He just posted pics of detritus taken from his ATS. It was full of life. I wondered if we really want to remove all that life from our tanks.

I suppose so, but I guess if it (the means of nutrient export) ends up in a bowl of ceviche, then perhaps that has better karma!

[Subsea]

Chasing zeros is not a goal and it has many unintended consequences.

Nutrient export and nutrient recycling are two differrent things. I prefer nutrient recycling where my nutrient sink is desirable like coral or fish.

[gregkn73]

Originally Posted by NS Mike D

Jason has a thread in which he is posting video and photos from his microscope. He just posted pics of detritus taken from his ATS. It was full of life. I wondered if we really want to remove all that life from our tanks.

Can you give us that link?

[bgjetlag]

Hello! I've been searching the forum for current info regarding people's experience using the Jaubert plenum, and I've enjoyed your posts. I was hoping you would take some time to help me with a bit of guidance. Thanks in advance!

I'm currently running a 180 gal reef tank that utilizes a 30 gal refugium and a 60 gal sump. I have built a plenum in both the refugium and the sump. The display tank utilizes live rock that I made myself (2 parts FL crushed coral, 2 parts Special Grade Reef Sand, 1 part white Portland Cement). The refugium also contains a glass bowl with approx 2" deep Miracle Mud in which I have growing 6 red mangrove seedlings. The sump has a GAC media chamber, calcium reactor, and a protein skimmer. Lighting is via Orphek Atlantik V3 pendants.

I was motivated to set up the plenum after reading Live Sand Secrets by Bob Goemans. However, I now find that the crushed coral substrate is fused together in the refugium. Interestingly, this does not seem to have occurred in the sump. The only major difference is that the sump is not lit. Have you experienced this issue? What might be the cause, and do you think it is a problem? I worry that the fused substrate might impede nutrient transfer.

I noticed in one of your posts that you mentioned having a 20 yr old setup that utilizes such a plenum, but would not construct a new tank with one. Would you elaborate as to why, and would you recommend that I remove mine?
My tank parameters are:
NO3 2ppm
PO4 undetectable using my Hanna colorimeter
dKH 8.5
calcium 415ppm
salinity 1.025
temp 24 deg C

The tank setup is relatively new; July 2016. Fish were added first; corals only since Jan 2017. I am having issues with browning and poor polyp extension with some SPS. Certain frags have succumbed to RTN. Most LPS and soft corals are fine, with the exception of a couple of chalice corals that experienced local bleaching and tissue death.

Some of my SPS are fine, but taking all of the symptoms together, including loss of 2 red collar snails and the semi-permanent retraction of a third, I feel there is something going on in the system. I am trying to troubleshoot and would like your experienced feedback concerning the system generally and the Jaubert plenum specifically. Thanks again for your time.

[JonezNReef]

Originally Posted by bgjetlag

Hello! I've been searching the forum for current info regarding people's experience using the Jaubert plenum, and I've enjoyed your posts. I was hoping you would take some time to help me with a bit of guidance. Thanks in advance!

I'm currently running a 180 gal reef tank that utilizes a 30 gal refugium and a 60 gal sump. I have built a plenum in both the refugium and the sump. The display tank utilizes live rock that I made myself (2 parts FL crushed coral, 2 parts Special Grade Reef Sand, 1 part white Portland Cement). The refugium also contains a glass bowl with approx 2" deep Miracle Mud in which I have growing 6 red mangrove seedlings. The sump has a GAC media chamber, calcium reactor, and a protein skimmer. Lighting is via Orphek Atlantik V3 pendants.

I was motivated to set up the plenum after reading Live Sand Secrets by Bob Goemans. However, I now find that the crushed coral substrate is fused together in the refugium. Interestingly, this does not seem to have occurred in the sump. The only major difference is that the sump is not lit. Have you experienced this issue? What might be the cause, and do you think it is a problem? I worry that the fused substrate might impede nutrient transfer.

I noticed in one of your posts that you mentioned having a 20 yr old setup that utilizes such a plenum, but would not construct a new tank with one. Would you elaborate as to why, and would you recommend that I remove mine?
My tank parameters are:
NO3 2ppm
PO4 undetectable using my Hanna colorimeter
dKH 8.5
calcium 415ppm
salinity 1.025
temp 24 deg C

The tank setup is relatively new; July 2016. Fish were added first; corals only since Jan 2017. I am having issues with browning and poor polyp extension with some SPS. Certain frags have succumbed to RTN. Most LPS and soft corals are fine, with the exception of a couple of chalice corals that experienced local bleaching and tissue death.

Some of my SPS are fine, but taking all of the symptoms together, including loss of 2 red collar snails and the semi-permanent retraction of a third, I feel there is something going on in the system. I am trying to troubleshoot and would like your experienced feedback concerning the system generally and the Jaubert plenum specifically. Thanks again for your time.

I wanted to do a plenum in my 180 but decided against it at the last moment but I doubt that it is your issue here. The crushed coral fuzzing together happens a bit in a lot of tank not just ones with plenums. As for your coral, your parameters seem on point and I am no expert but I am wondering if your lighting might be the issue. A lot of corals brown up when they aren't getting enough light. I am unfamiliar with your lighting and not sure what intensity they are set at and how many you are running but thats something to look into maybe. Have you had any sudden swings in ALK, PH, or Temp because those are major causes of RTN. Also have you added anything new just before it started?

[bgjetlag]

Yeah, I suspect that the SPS brown out is due to their new location under LED's. They came from under Halides at the store. These are an Orphek product and should have more than enough PAR to support SPS, especially where I have them at the top of the tank. Thing is, even with the color 'shift' that I'm hoping is temporary, some colonies are looking good with full polyp extension while others are obviously struggling and a few are showing tissue death around the base progressing upwards.

As far as what's new; pretty much everything. I've been continually adding stock to the tank over the past 3 months. It's the newer arrivals (which are loaded towards SPS) which are showing signs of stress. I caught my NO3 higher than I thought it was, at 10ppm. Five 30 gal water changes later (over a week) and the level is down to 2ppm. I've also started dosing Red Sea's NOPOX (basically carbon dosing) in order to establish and maintain healthy levels of denitrifying bacteria. Still looking into how to set that up with a dosing pump so that it doesn't evaporate out!

If something I added to the tank introduced a disease, etc, I'd have no idea what. Just going to try to keep parameters healthy, clean, and stable. Fingers crossed that those under stress will adapt and recover....

[JonezNReef]

Originally Posted by bgjetlag

Yeah, I suspect that the SPS brown out is due to their new location under LED's. They came from under Halides at the store. These are an Orphek product and should have more than enough PAR to support SPS, especially where I have them at the top of the tank. Thing is, even with the color 'shift' that I'm hoping is temporary, some colonies are looking good with full polyp extension while others are obviously struggling and a few are showing tissue death around the base progressing upwards.

As far as what's new; pretty much everything. I've been continually adding stock to the tank over the past 3 months. It's the newer arrivals (which are loaded towards SPS) which are showing signs of stress. I caught my NO3 higher than I thought it was, at 10ppm. Five 30 gal water changes later (over a week) and the level is down to 2ppm. I've also started dosing Red Sea's NOPOX (basically carbon dosing) in order to establish and maintain healthy levels of denitrifying bacteria. Still looking into how to set that up with a dosing pump so that it doesn't evaporate out!

If something I added to the tank introduced a disease, etc, I'd have no idea what. Just going to try to keep parameters healthy, clean, and stable. Fingers crossed that those under stress will adapt and recover....

Ive had this happen with new arrivals too. Sometimes they just can't get used to YOUR water because your tank could have stuff in it that wasn't present in the LFS's tank. Not too much is known, atleast from what Ive read, when it comes to RTN and your parameters are in check with no swings but it still happens. Water changes always helped out but sometimes even thats not enough. Keep us posted on your plenum. I am still curious about them. How did you set yours up?

[bgjetlag]

Update: Seem to have found the source of the problem...or at least something very concerning. Some at my LFS had expressed concern about black sand and had seen similar issues with their SPS (browning, lack of polyp extension, followed by tissue necrosis). After losing several more SPS frags and watching some small acan colonies suffer and waste, I decided to remove 80lbs of black sand from my tank (CaribSea live black sand).

Please see the attached pic. This is a Tunze rare earth magnet used to mount powerheads on glass up to 1/2". Think there are any metals in the sand??

That was over 2 weeks ago and things are starting to come back. A goni that had spent its entire time withdrawn has extended again. Unfortunately, a couple of SPS's were beyond help and have since succumbed. The acan colonies are looking better though.

I used one packet of the Two Little Fishies MetaSorb (removes several metals and medications from aquaria) and it turned slightly orange/red. I replaced it with a second packet recently.

[Subsea]

Originally Posted by Timfish

I think I've heard your sermons before Pat ( ), but you still haven't posted your red and green grape cheviche recipe anywhere I now of. Seems like a good way to recoup some of the money I've spent on my tanks.

First, when you wash the seaweed, use salt water. Perferable cold to enhance crispness. I do not add anything to the seaweed until it is time to eat. I have found that lime juice will effect texture in a very short time.
Soy sauce
Sesame seed oil
Lime Juice

When I make a cevicee, I use tomatoes, hot & sweet peppers, onions and a cruncy vegetable like celery of zucinni. Add Tony Chacheres Creole Seasoning and lime juice to taste. This a vetetarian chevichee. Then I make a sushi dish with a firm fish or shrimp. Don't use Cod Fish. While I like Cod cooked, it gets rubbery with the lime juice marinade. Then the third dish is the seaweed in a bowl of cold salt water. When prepared with 3 separate dishes people can taste as an individual serving or mix & match.

Enjoy the abundance of the ocean.

[Subsea]

Originally Posted by bgjetlag

Hello! I've been searching the forum for current info regarding people's experience using the Jaubert plenum, and I've enjoyed your posts. I was hoping you would take some time to help me with a bit of guidance. Thanks in advance!

I'm currently running a 180 gal reef tank that utilizes a 30 gal refugium and a 60 gal sump. I have built a plenum in both the refugium and the sump. The display tank utilizes live rock that I made myself (2 parts FL crushed coral, 2 parts Special Grade Reef Sand, 1 part white Portland Cement). The refugium also contains a glass bowl with approx 2" deep Miracle Mud in which I have growing 6 red mangrove seedlings. The sump has a GAC media chamber, calcium reactor, and a protein skimmer. Lighting is via Orphek Atlantik V3 pendants.

I was motivated to set up the plenum after reading Live Sand Secrets by Bob Goemans. However, I now find that the crushed coral substrate is fused together in the refugium. Interestingly, this does not seem to have occurred in the sump. The only major difference is that the sump is not lit. Have you experienced this issue? What might be the cause, and do you think it is a problem? I worry that the fused substrate might impede nutrient transfer.

I noticed in one of your posts that you mentioned having a 20 yr old setup that utilizes such a plenum, but would not construct a new tank with one. Would you elaborate as to why, and would you recommend that I remove mine?
My tank parameters are:
NO3 2ppm
PO4 undetectable using my Hanna colorimeter
dKH 8.5
calcium 415ppm
salinity 1.025
temp 24 deg C

The tank setup is relatively new; July 2016. Fish were added first; corals only since Jan 2017. I am having issues with browning and poor polyp extension with some SPS. Certain frags have succumbed to RTN. Most LPS and soft corals are fine, with the exception of a couple of chalice corals that experienced local bleaching and tissue death.

Some of my SPS are fine, but taking all of the symptoms together, including loss of 2 red collar snails and the semi-permanent retraction of a third, I feel there is something going on in the system. I am trying to troubleshoot and would like your experienced feedback concerning the system generally and the Jaubert plenum specifically. Thanks again for your time.

BJ,

No I would not change out Jaubert Plenumn. The differrence between a Jaubert Plenum with a coarse DSB and a standard DSB is not only the grain size but the populations that flourish in a fine substrate, mainly worms. The Jaubert Plenumn uses faculative bacteria and performs denitrification, nitrate molecule turned into a free gas molecule to be exported at the water air interface. The DSB uses micro fana and flora to recycle nutrients and feed the tank. Jaubery Plenumn will also feed the tank but not to the same extent.


Your set up sounds solid and you should have great results. I can not over emphasis the importance of GAC. It is the only thing that removes DOC from the bulk water. I do not suscribe to the EPA montra that "Dilution is the solution to pollution".

The reason that I would not set up another Jaubert Plenumn is because if neglected they will becomer a problem. To maintain a Jaubert Plenumn with coarse substrate, I would recommend bristle worms, Cerith Snails, Nassarius Vibex Snail and both amphipods and copepods. The main reson that I would not set up another DSB is that there are other nutrient export mechanisms that are easier to maintain. I like 1" sandbeds with decorative macro in the display tank.

[Subsea]

Originally Posted by bgjetlag

Update: Seem to have found the source of the problem...or at least something very concerning. Some at my LFS had expressed concern about black sand and had seen similar issues with their SPS (browning, lack of polyp extension, followed by tissue necrosis). After losing several more SPS frags and watching some small acan colonies suffer and waste, I decided to remove 80lbs of black sand from my tank (CaribSea live black sand).

Please see the attached pic. This is a Tunze rare earth magnet used to mount powerheads on glass up to 1/2". Think there are any metals in the sand??

That was over 2 weeks ago and things are starting to come back. A goni that had spent its entire time withdrawn has extended again. Unfortunately, a couple of SPS's were beyond help and have since succumbed. The acan colonies are looking better though.

I used one packet of the Two Little Fishies MetaSorb (removes several metals and medications from aquaria) and it turned slightly orange/red. I replaced it with a second packet recently.

BJ,
Some years ago, before adding Miracle Mud to a system, a good friend used a magnet and found iron particles. At the time, we thought this was a bad thing. I now add Flourish Iron to all my marine tanks. I have seen it green-up green macro algae and on my Gracilaria Hayi tumble culture it changed color from an off red to a dark burgendy in less than two days.

[Subsea]

Originally Posted by Nano sapiens

I find the Forums quite resistent to novel approaches that don't involve a lot of money, aren't Tech heavy and/or aren't sponsored by some big name commercial outfit. Now I'm all for skepticism, but when someone can show honest proof of results over an extended time period then I certainly take notice and explore the topic in more depth.

Adding natural sand/mud to your system has worked well for you and I can see the potential benefits. Since many reef keepers are land-locked and don't have access to the ocean, aquarists can do a few things that help ensure that the existing strains of bacteria in a healthy reef tank continue to thrive long-term.

I typically don't add new live sand or live rock once a reef system is established. MY LR and most of my LS is around 18 years old now and whatever bacterial strains the material has acquired do their jobs well. In order to keep the bacteria productive, I regularly remove detritus from the system which allows sufficient flow/nutrients to get to the bacteria as well as remove excess organic material from the system. The system gets a weekly 'Storm' treatment with a turkey baster, too, about an hour or so before I vacuum any detritus from the sand bed (advective principle used here to advantage). And equally important, no chemical substances of any kind to eradicate 'XYZ' pests or diseases added to the system as many of these can adversely effect the beneficial bacteria in the system.

Nano,
The vendor approach to this hobby involves more and more equipment that targets a specific area. Like most things, there are multiple/cascading effects to consider when making changes. I have found that the bacteria know what to do.

Remember the margarine commercial, "It is not nice to fool Mother Nature".

[Subsea]

Originally Posted by Paul B

I just went crabbing and came home with about 14 of these beauties. I don't think they are vegans though. Some people call these a clean up crew, I call them dinner.

Paul,
I do not know if you are posting on this site anymore. If you get this message, thank you for the laugh.
Patrick

[Subsea]

Originally Posted by BlackTip

I tried to feed my fish oysters, but they didn't touch it.

I brought two row oysters home from a cookout party. I put them in a ziploc bag and placed them in the freezer. Few days later, I took one out and sliced few small pieces. Thawed them in water, and put them in the tank. My fish didn't touch them.

Did I do anything wrong?

I do not know why your fish would not eat that. However, from an immune system point of view, you killed most of the bacteria. Just as in a human intestine, there are diverse bacteria strains living in dynamic equilibrium. When the host is dead, these bacteria populations will become skewed between differrent species. In most cases, the bacteria remaining are not desirable.

I buy a few live clams, mussels, oysters from the HEB seafood counter.They break open a sack and sell me as few or as many as I want. I usually get enough at one time to last a week. If the bi-nalve is slighly open, do not buy them.