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Unread 12/08/2017, 06:35 PM   #1
pbradley0
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Water storage and phosphates

So I've been having issues with phosphates on my 8 month old tank. I have Pukani rock that I cured with LC so for the longest time I have blamed it on that but I figured that that would have resolved by now if it was just the rocks. I feed frozen food every other day and have never fed anything but this. Skimming fairly wet. Water changes every 2 weeks. Running GFO and have chaeto in the fuge. I have a 6 stage BRS RODI and my TDS is always 0. The water runs through two canisters of DI resin and the second container has never changed color so I'm fairly confident I'm making clean water. With all of this I still read 54 ppb in my tank and I have visible algae growth.

So I test my 32 gallon food safe container with about 10 gallons of leftover salt water that I mixed up last week for a water change and it shows 34 ppb. Based on this I feel fairly confident that I've found my source of phosphate but still don't understand why. (Using standard IO for salt mix)

I have never used the full 32 gallons during a water change and usually just leave the residual in the container for a couple of weeks and then top it off with fresh RODI and salt. I'm starting to wonder if this practice is somehow causing the problem. Both my salt and RODI containers are in the garage and have lids on them but its possible something is settling in them. I guess the other possibility is that the containers are leaching phosphate into the water.

I have given both of my containers a good scrub and dumped all the water. Hopefully this will fix the issue but I'm wondering if maybe I just need to change my practice of just letting the residual saltwater sit for 2 weeks. Any thoughts or suggestions?


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Unread 12/08/2017, 07:38 PM   #2
pbradley0
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To clarify, I’ve been making my saltwater similarly to the solera method of making sherry. It’s a mix of all prior batches.


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Unread 12/08/2017, 07:46 PM   #3
VoltzNSalt
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I use brute 55 gallon containers and have the same RO/DI set-up as you (only 1 DI canister, however)...

After 3 years of my heavily stocked 210 gal FOWLR running flawlessly, I had the GHA outbreak from hades (I run UV, GFO and carbon) and took this as a signal from the universe as it was time to take it down and do some house renovations...

My downfall can be traced directly to overfeeding though...I fed 100% pellet w/auto feeders and let's just say my fish never went hungry...

I'm not sure what type of algae you are experiencing (Diatoms? GHA? Cyano?) but I would doubt your containers are the culprit...


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Unread 12/08/2017, 08:05 PM   #4
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Generally, letting water sit should be safe enough as long as the container has a lid on it. I am not sure quite what is happening, but I might measure some freshly-mixed saltwater to see how that is shaping up. The issue might be the RO filter, although the color change should have happened with the proper resin. Are you using the Hanna HI736 ULR Phosphorus Checker?


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Unread 12/08/2017, 09:47 PM   #5
pbradley0
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Originally Posted by bertoni View Post
Generally, letting water sit should be safe enough as long as the container has a lid on it. I am not sure quite what is happening, but I might measure some freshly-mixed saltwater to see how that is shaping up. The issue might be the RO filter, although the color change should have happened with the proper resin. Are you using the Hanna HI736 ULR Phosphorus Checker?


Cleaned the cans and I’m making new water now. We will see what it shows.

The RO membrane is in good shape with a good rejection rate. Second canister of DI resin hasn’t changed color because when the first gets exhausted I moved the second to the first and then refresh the old resin. This way all water passes through at least a full canister of resin.

I am using the ULR Hanna checker.


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Unread 12/08/2017, 09:49 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by VoltzNSalt View Post

I'm not sure what type of algae you are experiencing (Diatoms? GHA? Cyano?) but I would doubt your containers are the culprit...

I’ll be honest not really sure what kind of algae it is. It’s like a very airy almost hair like light green. Very little GHA in the tank thankfully. I have yet to have any diatoms or cyano in this tank.


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Unread 12/09/2017, 01:05 AM   #7
outy
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I used to get GHA when doing water changes, all low range test done by me and the reef store came back 0. I even test water that had been in the bottom of my mixing garbage cans for a month, also came back 0.

Sometimes its just the water. I am switching to nuclear grade DI resin to see if that helps.

A big help for me was making my DI cartridges go up and down instead of across. Alost instantly you could see color change in the resin, that had stayed the same for a year. My water was always 0 tds even leaving the RO before DI, but now I can actually see the change so I know its working better despite the 0 readings.


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Unread 12/09/2017, 07:23 AM   #8
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Crazy, Im looking into what bucket to get when storing RO/DI. I watched a video If you dont get a food safe can then it can leach things into the water. Just as you said you get 0 then after you get around 32. It has to be the can! You used a food safety can so I dont see how you are getting a reading but seems like a bad can. Im getting a brut garbage can white no color ones. Im going to test it to see if anything leaches after a few hours.


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Unread 12/09/2017, 11:16 AM   #9
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. Just as you said you get 0 then after you get around 32. It has to be the can!.
You misunderstood.

0 out of RO/DI the other was in the tank after being mixed with salt which is normal


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Unread 12/09/2017, 03:26 PM   #10
pbradley0
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Water storage and phosphates

I’m starting to wonder if it is the can. They aren’t brutes but I might have to get some. The thing is that I’ve read that there are reports of brutes leaching as well.



Last edited by pbradley0; 12/09/2017 at 06:41 PM.
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Unread 12/09/2017, 04:59 PM   #11
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I’ve wondered the same thing. Following along.


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Unread 12/09/2017, 05:42 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by pbradley0 View Post
Second canister of DI resin hasn’t changed color because when the first gets exhausted I moved the second to the first and then refresh the old resin.
Okay, that makes sense. It'll be interesting to see how the new water measures for phosphate.


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Unread 12/09/2017, 05:55 PM   #13
outy
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Originally Posted by pbradley0 View Post
I’m starting to wonder if it is the can. They are brutes but I might have to get some. The thing is that I’ve read that there are reports of brutes leaching as well.
Leave a inch or two in the bottom and let it sit there for a month, take a sample to your reef store if you have one, mine used the low range and fou7nd zero in mine when I was curious


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Unread 12/09/2017, 09:12 PM   #14
blasterman789
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Not to thread bomb, but we're greatly exaggerating the presumed parameters of commercial salt mixes. The byproducts of manufacturing reef salt and ingredients cause spikes of all kinds of things, phosphate being a possibility.


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Unread 12/10/2017, 09:32 AM   #15
Arcar
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I ordered a 20g can from tough guy. It's NSF #2 certified. If you look at the recycle plastic symbol and it has a 1 it's poor quality plastic, I would get something else. It its #2 then thats up in the food grade so you should be good to go!


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Unread 12/14/2017, 10:03 AM   #16
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Have you checked your Hannah meter or your testing protocol? I'm having a hard time believing you get 0 tds water out of your di, and fresh mixed salt contains that high of phosphorous.

Also, how long have you been using that can? As others suggested, if your testing methods are accurate, mix up a fresh batch and test. Even if your container is leaching and you start with a few gallons of old/phosphate laden water, it should drop significantly.


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Unread 12/14/2017, 05:04 PM   #17
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I looked at my Brute can and it says Low-density polyethylene (LDPE) 4. Not sure how to tell if that’s food grade or not.


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Unread 12/14/2017, 06:37 PM   #18
bertoni
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LDPE is fine itself, but plastics can have mold inhibitors or other chemicals added, so it's hard to be sure what is safe. The product description might tell you, if you can find it on the manufacturer's web site.


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Unread 12/15/2017, 09:38 AM   #19
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I’m starting to wonder if it is the can. They aren’t brutes but I might have to get some. The thing is that I’ve read that there are reports of brutes leaching as well.
If it is any Rubbermaid Brand garbage can that is /not/ Brute, I got phosphate readings from a 20 gallon I was using. Left RODI water in it for a week, 0 TDS and no issues with the same RODI water that was also being stored in a 10 gallon glass tank. Tested after a week in tank and in can, there was phosphate in the garbage can, not in the tank.


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Unread 12/18/2017, 09:19 PM   #20
pbradley0
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Originally Posted by pisanoal View Post
Have you checked your Hannah meter or your testing protocol? I'm having a hard time believing you get 0 tds water out of your di, and fresh mixed salt contains that high of phosphorous.

Also, how long have you been using that can? As others suggested, if your testing methods are accurate, mix up a fresh batch and test. Even if your container is leaching and you start with a few gallons of old/phosphate laden water, it should drop significantly.


Sorry for the delay. I was out of town

I mixed up a new batch about a week ago and let it sit for a week days. Tested it this evening and it was at 8ppb. I think this is acceptable so I don’t think that the container is leaching. I suspect the prior value in the 30s may have been an outlier. Still a bit perplexed as to the source of phosphate in my system as I religiously do a 25% WC every other week and occasionally more frequently and don’t over feed (one frozen cube of bribe shrimp every other day).

One thing I’ve noticed over the last month or so is that my chaeto isn’t growing much at all. I have a good amount of hair algae in the DT that I continuously prune. I’m starting to wonder if I’m actually nitrate deficient and the elevated phosphate is from the lack of uptake by the chaeto. Still doesn’t explain as to why this isn’t occurring with the undesirable growth of algae or the source of the imbalanced phosphate/nitrates. Still quite the mystery to me.


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Unread 12/18/2017, 10:33 PM   #21
VoltzNSalt
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Ain't salt water aquariums grand

Trying to keep an infinitesimal slice of ocean in your house has its intricacies...

always keep you thinkin...

and sometimes you roll snake eyes on why something happened (or didn't happen)


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Unread 12/19/2017, 09:22 AM   #22
pbradley0
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Ain't salt water aquariums grand

Trying to keep an infinitesimal slice of ocean in your house has its intricacies...

always keep you thinkin...

and sometimes you roll snake eyes on why something happened (or didn't happen)


Ain’t that the truth. I keep reminding myself that the journey is the reward.


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Unread 12/19/2017, 10:06 PM   #23
pisanoal
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Ain’t that the truth. I keep reminding myself that the journey is the reward.
Lol. Only if you actually get somewhere... I'm there with my tank at the moment. Lots of journey, not so much destination

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


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Unread 01/05/2018, 02:07 PM   #24
pbradley0
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Here’s an update. After my last test of a fresh fill of my container that showed an acceptable phosphate level, I let the residual water sit for 3 weeks. I just tested it and it came back at 74ppb. Quite the leap from 8. I think I’m going to replace my containers.


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Unread 01/05/2018, 02:10 PM   #25
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Here’s an update. After my last test of a fresh fill of my container that showed an acceptable phosphate level, I let the residual water sit for 3 weeks. I just tested it and it came back at 74ppb. Quite the leap from 8. I think I’m going to replace my containers.
Sounds like the best course of action. I experienced the same thing, though not THAT big a jump


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