sps go pale every 4 weeks

[ali1]

i have a 300g mixed reef ... mainly lps. my filteration is SWC skimmer, algae scrubber, gfo/carbon reactors. Every 4 weeks, my montis go pale and begin whitening. Zoas, softies and acans are fine. To correct the problem, I have to do a 20% water change and things are back to normal the next day. Keeps happening about 4 weeks in.

Fish stock Naso, Hippo, purple tang

Alk is 9.3
Calcium 460
Mag 1420
Nitrate 5
Phos .03

I initially thought it was my vodka dosing a while back, but I removed that from the equation and now I'm thinking the ATS is stripping a trace element thats required by SPS. Anyone else have a similar problem?

[Daddyrawg]

Following as i have some acroporas and an ATS..

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[Deahttub]

I had a similar problem with my 220. I was running my ats too much and system was too clean. How long are you running the ats? I only run mine now 10 hours per day

[ClownReef®]

You're running an algae scrubber, carbon, and GFO? You're polishing your water to death.

[Mrtakeoff53]

I have the same problem with my Montipora except that it takes about 4 days for them to go white again. I can’t seem to figure out what’s going on. Water change is the only thing that gives them some color back. I’ve tried feeding more, dosing trace elements and adjusting my lights. Nothing seems to work. I’ve stopped messing with them because I don’t want to destroy everything else in my tank chasing a problems. I’ve just accepted it. Hopefully they’ll come back around.

[mcgyvr]

Are you dosing to maintain alk/cal/mag?
And regularly measuring those?

[ali1]

yes dosing using brs

[ali1]

Originally Posted by ClownReef®

You're running an algae scrubber, carbon, and GFO? You're polishing your water to death.

if I was polishing water to death, why would a water change fix it?

my thought process is since water changes are fixing this, Im stripping trace elements. i just need to know which one so I can buy the testkit.

[outssider]

Originally Posted by ali1

i just need to know which one so I can buy the testkit.

most likely the trace element you are depleting won't have a test kit available

[ClownReef®]

Originally Posted by ali1

if I was polishing water to death, why would a water change fix it?

my thought process is since water changes are fixing this, Im stripping trace elements. i just need to know which one so I can buy the testkit.

Right.. because youre adding the stuff you're polishing out of your water. There aren't test kits for trace elements.

It's like having healthy kidneys and hooking yourself up to a dialysis machine. Why are you running a scrubber, GFO, and carbon?

[ali1]

i always had problems with nitrates bc chateo never worked for me. While gfo handled phosphate, I needed a better method at reducing nitrates. thats where the scrubber came in. and it worked.

I use carbon for polishing... makes water crystal clear
gfo is for phosphate control

i guess if nobody else has a solution, I can take the gfo/carbon offline and post back a month later?

[reefgeezer]

So does that mean you are doing a 20% water change every 4 weeks? If that's the case, the answer is simple... Do more water changes... At least 10% per week.

[ali1]

Originally Posted by reefgeezer

So does that mean you are doing a 20% water change every 4 weeks? If that's the case, the answer is simple... Do more water changes... At least 10% per week.

not a solution... bandaid

[Daddi0]

Originally Posted by ali1

not a solution... bandaid

I wouldn't think of it as a bandaid. I have a 180 gallon system with at least 300 corals. I use Red Sea in the blue bucket. Knowing that it has all the trace elements that I can't or don't want to test for, I do smaller more frequent water changes. My thinking is that this keeps the level of the elements pretty stable. In the last 6 weeks, I have started changing 5 gallons a day and my reef has never looked so good. The sump used to get a layer of sludge every couple of days but now it is spotless. The corals all look great and healthy. It only takes a couple minutes and while it may cost a bit, I save on having to buy tests and save time by not having to do a bunch of tests. I also add .3ml of Alpha for reefs to each water change in case something goes wrong with my R/O - cheap insurance
Cheers! Mark

[ali1]

I like that idea... maybe a solution in the future for automatic water changes. Not manually changing 5gallons of water everyday in a 450g system.

I ran my reef for 6yrs doing water changes every 3 months... dosing vodka, alk and calcium. Seeing as others are running into similar issues, I'm just wondering if people found a fix before I begin isolating variables. All started when I had the scrubber 5 months ago.

[reefgeezer]

The algae growing in your scrubber uses trace elements in addition to nutrients. So does the symbiotic algae in your SPS corals. The bigger they get, the more they use. If you've seen a change since the scrubber came on line, I'd have to ask if you are somehow replacing the trace elements being used. Your carbon dosing also uses/binds trace elements. Iron, iodine, and potassium come to mind as possibly being depleted, but there's a bunch of lesser trace elements that are also being used up.

You can test for some of these if you want to pony up for expensive test kits. Even more expensive lab testing can tell you exactly what's missing for the lessor elements.. However, an easier method is to simply apply a band-aid... water changes. I like to think of this a basic husbandry rather than a band-aid though.

Some method of making the water changes quick & easy are the way to go on a big system. If you don't want to do water changes, check out the Balling or Triton method. You have to replace trace elements and resolve ionic imbalances somehow.

[ali1]

makes more sense. thanks gents

[Daddyrawg]

Originally Posted by Daddi0

I wouldn't think of it as a bandaid. I have a 180 gallon system with at least 300 corals. I use Red Sea in the blue bucket. Knowing that it has all the trace elements that I can't or don't want to test for, I do smaller more frequent water changes. My thinking is that this keeps the level of the elements pretty stable. In the last 6 weeks, I have started changing 5 gallons a day and my reef has never looked so good. The sump used to get a layer of sludge every couple of days but now it is spotless. The corals all look great and healthy. It only takes a couple minutes and while it may cost a bit, I save on having to buy tests and save time by not having to do a bunch of tests. I also add .3ml of Alpha for reefs to each water change in case something goes wrong with my R/O - cheap insurance
Cheers! Mark

Can i see your tank? I have a 90 and keep having an itch for a 180

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[Jsarrow]

Originally Posted by ClownReef®

You're running an algae scrubber, carbon, and GFO? You're polishing your water to death.

agreed.

Frequent small water changes, as also pointed out here, is also a great way to reset every parameter and keep them in check; like EI dosing in freshwater planted tanks. 5 gallons a week is pretty easy to do.

[Daddi0]

Originally Posted by Daddyrawg

Can i see your tank? I have a 90 and keep having an itch for a 180

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The 180 gallon is a "system" and not a single tank. It is 2 x 60 gallon displays, a 30 gallon display and a 30 gallon sump along one wall in my garage and all plumbed together. I am getting a 200 gallon tank shortly and cant wait.
Cheers! Mark

[Skynyrd Fish]

Have you considered heavy metals, or another contaminate?

[JustAClownFish]

Think critically. You have to do a water change to solve the issue. So if 20% of new water solves the issue then you need to dose whatever the 20% replenish. Or alternatively you could stop sucking all the nutrients out of your system. Carbon GFO and ATS? ATS are powerful.

[JustAClownFish]

Originally Posted by ali1

i always had problems with nitrates bc chateo never worked for me. While gfo handled phosphate, I needed a better method at reducing nitrates. thats where the scrubber came in. and it worked.

I use carbon for polishing... makes water crystal clear
gfo is for phosphate control

i guess if nobody else has a solution, I can take the gfo/carbon offline and post back a month later?

Just dose trace elements. Get red seas ABCD and AB. Hook it up to a doser. Chateo only works if you have strong lighting. Never worked for me with mediocre lighting options. It needs strong red/blue light.

[reefgeezer]

Originally Posted by JustAClownFish

Just dose trace elements. Get red seas ABCD and AB. Hook it up to a doser. Chateo only works if you have strong lighting. Never worked for me with mediocre lighting options. It needs strong red/blue light.

Help me out. Thinking critically, I don't understand why you would spend a lot of money on bottled trace elements when they can be replaced cheaply with water changes. If convenience is an issue, automatic water changes can be done with virtually the same dosing pumps required to dose the trace elements.

Again, thinking critically, does dosing trace elements mitigate ionic imbalances that build up over time? Does dosing trace elements work well for new systems as well as mature ones?

[JustAClownFish]

Originally Posted by reefgeezer

Help me out. Thinking critically, I don't understand why you would spend a lot of money on bottled trace elements when they can be replaced cheaply with water changes. If convenience is an issue, automatic water changes can be done with virtually the same dosing pumps required to dose the trace elements.

Again, thinking critically, does dosing trace elements mitigate ionic imbalances that build up over time? Does dosing trace elements work well for new systems as well as mature ones?

I see! A smartass! I like people like you! If you do weekly 20% water changes as recommended, you will only replace 20% of whatever was used up each week. If your tank is PACKED with corals, meaning it uses up a lot of trace elements, and if your tank is bigger than just a few gallons, you will NOT replenish 100% of all trace elements with a god damn 20% water change! Even BRS did a segment on this saying that it is pointless to only change 10-20% of the water as it will only replenish 10-20% of what is missing. How about you shoot them an email urging them to think critically?

A 200-gallon bucket of salt costs 50-80 bucks (and doesn't even contain all trace elements depending on the brand). If you have a 100-gallon tank and you want to replenish at least 50% of all trace elements every week you will have to do a 50% water change every week. That's 50 gallons for a 100-gallon tank. That means that you will have to buy a bucket of salt every month. How is that cheaper than buying a concentrated bottle of trace elements which you can dose every single day to ensure STABILITY?

He has a 300g reef tank and you are suggesting he do 10% water changes every week to replenish all elements. Talk about critical thinking. Lmfao