What is this and is it killing my hammers?

Rafty · 09/12/2019, 05:22 AM

Hi all

Some of my hammers have been slowly dying. I have noticed these tubular structures appearing which when removed always return after days. I have wondered if they could be worms. I just did a coral dip with Coral Rx and a several of these star fish like creatures appeared in the water after the dip. Could this be the cause of their slow death and do I have to do something more systemic to treat the entire tank?

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Dmorty217 · 09/12/2019, 05:42 AM

Those are micro starfish and are very common in mature systems and cause no harm. Its hard to make anything else out in the picture. Tube structures usually are some sort of worm or feather duster, again harmless. Have you check all of your parameters including phosphate? Outside of a pest in the tank which it seems unlikely being you're dipping the corals and finding no pests, I would shift to something in the water being off parameter wise or stray voltage ect

Alex114 · 09/12/2019, 05:44 AM

I doubt it. Looks like a serpent starfish but the picture is a little blurry. They should be reef safe and the ones I have tend to stay in one area. They most likely came in on that piece of coral when you bought it and remained on the coral or rock it was attached to

Rafty · 09/12/2019, 05:54 AM

Thanks for the quick response. All my parameters are good apart from low nitrate of 2 and phosphate of 0. But most of my hammers are healthy and thriving which is why I though likely a pest.

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mcgyvr · 09/12/2019, 08:09 AM

Yep.. Beneficial/harmless micro brittle starfish..

Hammers/Frogspawn,Octos are one of those corals that some people have great luck with and others they do great then just go down hill.. To this date I have never seen a concrete answer as to why that happens.. Plenty of speculation and no actual facts..
Its trial and error with those for some/many..

Uncle99 · 09/13/2019, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rafty

Thanks for the quick response. All my parameters are good apart from low nitrate of 2 and phosphate of 0. But most of my hammers are healthy and thriving which is why I though likely a pest.

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corals really don't like 0 phosphates, they must have access to trace amounts to survive long term, this goes for most other as well. Nitrate number fine.

You say all parameters are good, maybe, but are they stable?

Rafty · 09/13/2019, 06:01 PM

Very stable. KH 8.5, Ca 450, Mg 1400.

What is the best way to keep phosphates at a suitable level and what should I be aiming for?

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mattgumaer · 09/14/2019, 04:49 AM

Micro brittles. No harm whatsoever. You need some phosphate (usually generated by feeding the tank). The tricky part about reading too much into the 0 number is that you could be generating plenty of phosphate, which is being consumed by algae/corals/etc. Also, potential testing errors come into play.

In my experience, flow is a big factor in success. I had one hammer (probably about 50 heads) that grew up towards the path of an MP60. As it grew up, the polyps became less extended and, ultimately, when directly in the path of the MP60 (maybe 18 in front with the MP60 not running too high), heads started to die off. I've since replaced the MP60 with a Gyre and, problem solved. I say this not to suggest that Gyres are better, only that flow matters.

Light levels are also a possibility. Typical problems are related to too much light. LEDs are powerful and people frequently overdo it, particularly in 'hot spot' areas.

Euphyllia can also get 'brown jelly' disease (which I've never dealt with).

Lastly, and maybe I should have started with this, the tubes you're seeing could be vermetid snails. These guys release a mucous 'net' to hunt. The 'nets' could be irritating your hammers and preventing them from inflating, potentially ultimately leading to their demise.

Whenever, I have multiples of the same type of coral and some are doing well and others not, I tend to think: 1) it's probably not water parameters, since some are doing well; and 2) what's different between the ones that are doing well and the ones that aren't, thinking about things like lighting, flow, etc..

Matt

09/12/2019, 05:22 AM	#1
Rafty Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 141	What is this and is it killing my hammers? Hi all Some of my hammers have been slowly dying. I have noticed these tubular structures appearing which when removed always return after days. I have wondered if they could be worms. I just did a coral dip with Coral Rx and a several of these star fish like creatures appeared in the water after the dip. Could this be the cause of their slow death and do I have to do something more systemic to treat the entire tank? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

09/12/2019, 05:42 AM	#2
Dmorty217 Saltwater Addict Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Vandalia OHIO Posts: 11,624	Those are micro starfish and are very common in mature systems and cause no harm. Its hard to make anything else out in the picture. Tube structures usually are some sort of worm or feather duster, again harmless. Have you check all of your parameters including phosphate? Outside of a pest in the tank which it seems unlikely being you're dipping the corals and finding no pests, I would shift to something in the water being off parameter wise or stray voltage ect __________________ Fish are not disposable commodities, but a worthwhile investment that can be maintained and enjoyed for many years, providing one is willing to take the time to understand their requirements and needs Current Tank Info: 625g, 220g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 3 MP60s, MP40. Several QTs

09/12/2019, 08:09 AM	#5
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Yep.. Beneficial/harmless micro brittle starfish.. Hammers/Frogspawn,Octos are one of those corals that some people have great luck with and others they do great then just go down hill.. To this date I have never seen a concrete answer as to why that happens.. Plenty of speculation and no actual facts.. Its trial and error with those for some/many.. __________________ Who me?

09/12/2019, 05:44 AM	#3
Alex114 Registered Member Join Date: May 2019 Location: Northeast Ohio Posts: 162	I doubt it. Looks like a serpent starfish but the picture is a little blurry. They should be reef safe and the ones I have tend to stay in one area. They most likely came in on that piece of coral when you bought it and remained on the coral or rock it was attached to

09/12/2019, 05:54 AM	#4
Rafty Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 141	Thanks for the quick response. All my parameters are good apart from low nitrate of 2 and phosphate of 0. But most of my hammers are healthy and thriving which is why I though likely a pest. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

09/13/2019, 06:01 PM	#7
Rafty Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 141	Very stable. KH 8.5, Ca 450, Mg 1400. What is the best way to keep phosphates at a suitable level and what should I be aiming for? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

09/14/2019, 04:49 AM	#8
mattgumaer Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 561	Micro brittles. No harm whatsoever. You need some phosphate (usually generated by feeding the tank). The tricky part about reading too much into the 0 number is that you could be generating plenty of phosphate, which is being consumed by algae/corals/etc. Also, potential testing errors come into play. In my experience, flow is a big factor in success. I had one hammer (probably about 50 heads) that grew up towards the path of an MP60. As it grew up, the polyps became less extended and, ultimately, when directly in the path of the MP60 (maybe 18 in front with the MP60 not running too high), heads started to die off. I've since replaced the MP60 with a Gyre and, problem solved. I say this not to suggest that Gyres are better, only that flow matters. Light levels are also a possibility. Typical problems are related to too much light. LEDs are powerful and people frequently overdo it, particularly in 'hot spot' areas. Euphyllia can also get 'brown jelly' disease (which I've never dealt with). Lastly, and maybe I should have started with this, the tubes you're seeing could be vermetid snails. These guys release a mucous 'net' to hunt. The 'nets' could be irritating your hammers and preventing them from inflating, potentially ultimately leading to their demise. Whenever, I have multiples of the same type of coral and some are doing well and others not, I tend to think: 1) it's probably not water parameters, since some are doing well; and 2) what's different between the ones that are doing well and the ones that aren't, thinking about things like lighting, flow, etc.. Matt