will double junction ph probe work on the classic apex?

[Aqua Man 07]

i was wondering if they work on the clasic apex and how much longer do they last?

[slief]

Yes, the new double junction probes will work just fine on the classics. Not sure how much longer they will last compared to the lab grades ones. I get a couple years out of my lab grade probes though and I'd imagine that the double junction probe would last at least 50% longer.

[Aqua Man 07]

right on thanks

[CoralNerd]

The BRS lab grade probes look superior to Neptune's lab probe. I purchased a neptune probe recently and was not happy with it or the response I got from Neptune.

[slief]

Originally Posted by CoralNerd

The BRS lab grade probes look superior to Neptune's lab probe. I purchased a neptune probe recently and was not happy with it or the response I got from Neptune.

Looks can be deceiving. Neptune uses very good probes and you won't beat their price on their new double junction probes.

What kind of issue did you have with a probe? I've been running Neptune Lab Grade Probes for over 20 years and never once experienced a premature failure. In fact, I've never replaced a probe in less than 2 years of use. My Salnity probe is probably close to 5 years old. It's the original probe I got with my PM2 when they were first released. My pH probe is over 2 years old and my ORP is well over 3 years old. All 3 are very accurate as I have another (non Apex and German made) controller here with brand new pH, ORP and CondX probes for testing and it's reading are spot on with my Apex despite the age of my Neptune probes.

[CoralNerd]

The cord was dated 2013, the cap only had a small amount of fluid and inside the cardboard was messed with. I complained to the store that sold it to me and I was told I had to deal with Neptune for the return. Neptune didn't seem to think anything was wrong with it. After several conversations and asking them to swap it out they gave me a return merchandise number. I pay for shipping, then if nothing is wrong I have to pay $35. That's why I'm thinking I rather just buy a new $60 BRS probe that's double junction.

[slief]

Originally Posted by CoralNerd

The cord was dated 2013, the cap only had a small amount of fluid and inside the cardboard was messed with. I complained to the store that sold it to me and I was told I had to deal with Neptune for the return. Neptune didn't seem to think anything was wrong with it. After several conversations and asking them to swap it out they gave me a return merchandise number. I pay for shipping, then if nothing is wrong I have to pay $35. That's why I'm thinking I rather just buy a new $60 BRS probe that's double junction.

That was definitely an issue with the store and it's them who should have handled it. The probe on the other hand would have been just fine regardless of the date if it had any fluid in the cap. I have revived many dry probes without issue or effort. In fact, I've kept probes on my shelf as spares and forgot about them for years and managed to revive them. I just let the soak in some tank water or pH solution for 24 hours and they are just fine. Once water passes through the membrane they are back to normal. The probes that came with a GHL controller I have here were all totally dry and those too calibrated just fine. As to which probe is better, BRS vs Neptune. One thing I do know is that the Neptune Lab Grade probes last longer than any standard probes I have tried. I haven't use generic lab grade probes. Just generic standard grade probes and I didn't even get a year out of those and had to calibrate much more frequently. The Neptune Lab Grade ones are very good quality and rarely ever need calibration. Anything else is a crap shoot in my experience but at least you have options. My next set of probes will be Neptune double junction probes.

[CoralNerd]

The store claims that any issues with the probe Neptune handles it. ****ed me off, I for sure won't buy anything like that from this store again. My anger probably should be at the store not Neptune. I've calibrated it twice so far. I have five of the 7 and 10 ph calibration fluids coming to me and I'm going to try to calibrate it again. Glad to hear you've had good success with revival and also that they have a new double junction probe. P.S. The BRS probe they call it lab grade and it's double junction.

[slief]

Originally Posted by CoralNerd

The store claims that any issues with the probe Neptune handles it. ****ed me off, I for sure won't buy anything like that from this store again. My anger probably should be at the store not Neptune. I've calibrated it twice so far. I have five of the 7 and 10 ph calibration fluids coming to me and I'm going to try to calibrate it again. Glad to hear you've had good success with revival and also that they have a new double junction probe. P.S. The BRS probe they call it lab grade and it's double junction.

A couple tips on the calibration.

First, make sure the calibration solution is the same temp as the tank water. I float the packet in my sump for a little bit first. Then I wipe the packet off to remove any water, open the packet just enough to get the probe into the packet. This is kind of important as the air can impact the pH of the calibration solution so the less contact it has with air, the better. I then place the packet in a cup on an angle with some tank water in it and put the cup in the sump so it holds temp. Putting that packet in the cup on an angle allows me to put the probe in diagonally so it's fully submerged. I have a spot in my sump above some of my weirs that allows it to sit there. I also have some clips I can use to hold it in place if needed. The alternative is to place the tank temp probe in the calibration solution but for me, it's more effective making sure the solution matches the tank temp. Doing so insures the temp compensation is accurate and given the size of the temp probe vs the amount of solution in the packet and not being able to fully submerge the temp probe in the calibration solution, having the solution match the tank temp is in my mind a more accurate bet.

Second, allow the probe to settle for several minutes in each solution. I usually let it settle for about 10 minutes which pretty much guarantees it's fully settled. I also swirl the probe gently in the solution a few times during the first several minutes to insure there are no air bubbles trapped in the tip. Once calibration is complete, I verify the results by placing the probe in each of the packets to double check the readings. Keep in mind that the exposure to air will cause the calibration solution to deviate slightly from the original pH so if your pH reading is off by .01 or .02, that isn't out of the realm of reason.

I think the leading causes of probe inaccuracies are the result of temp compensation being off due to the temp of the calibration solution vs the tank temperature assuming the temp probe is in the sump when calibrating and the other cause of inaccuracy is not allowing the probe to settle long enough.

I also keep some RODI water in a cup and rinse the probe off briefly and shake and blow it off well before going into the next calibration fluid to insure the fluid isn't impacted by the previous calibration fluid. Maybe that is a bit excessive but I have always calibrated all my probes this way and always had very accurate results and rarely ever recalibrate my probes. Every now and then I take a soft tooth brush and brush the tips/membrane off to insure they are clean. I also keep my probes in a dark area of my sump that is devoid of microbubbles as micro bubbles will collect in the tips and will impact the probes accuracy. Keeping them in a dark place is important as it prevents algae and calcium buildup that can impact it's accuracy in the short term and will shorten the life of the probe in the long term.

[CoralNerd]

Great info. I use some of the same techniques but it looks like you have a few additional tricks which I will try.
Do you worry about the cable where it connects to the probe getting wet? I was thinking about attaching a little float so when I turn my pumps off it will float up.

[Aqua Man 07]

Heck yeah I needed a little info and I get the expert break down on ph probes thanks I've definitely made a couple minor mistakes calibrating my probes this will be the first time I have ever used a calcium reactor i definitely want that probe as accurate as possible.

[slief]

Originally Posted by CoralNerd

Great info. I use some of the same techniques but it looks like you have a few additional tricks which I will try.
Do you worry about the cable where it connects to the probe getting wet? I was thinking about attaching a little float so when I turn my pumps off it will float up.

These probes can be fully submerged but they will last longer if the top of the probe is above water. I always keep my probe in a probe holder with the tops and wire above the water. Over time the wires will harden if submerged and may crack leading to failure. Cheaper probes may have cheaper wire quality but that is only speculation.

Originally Posted by Aqua Man 07

Heck yeah I needed a little info and I get the expert break down on ph probes thanks I've definitely made a couple minor mistakes calibrating my probes this will be the first time I have ever used a calcium reactor i definitely want that probe as accurate as possible.

Make sure you calibrate that probe with pH 4 and pH 7 solution and not pH 7 and pH 10.

[CoralNerd]

PH calibration 7 and 10 I understand is what you want to use as it's the closest to what we keep our tanks at. Example I keep my ph above 8 with DKH at 9.6. My probe is not being used for a calcium reactor.

[slief]

Originally Posted by CoralNerd

PH calibration 7 and 10 I understand is what you want to use as it's the closest to what we keep our tanks at. Example I keep my ph above 8 with DKH at 9.6. My probe is not being used for a calcium reactor.

Yep. My reply regarding pH 4 & pH 7 solution was meant for Aqua Man who mentioned using his for a calcium reactor. For use in the tank. 7 & 10 is what is recommended.

[CoralNerd]

Awesome, thanks for helping us slief!

[Aqua Man 07]

yeah i knew what fluid just never let the packets sit in the tank to match temp and ive never let them sit in fluid for 10 min ive done like 5 max lol im running 2 probes now just to monitor 2 different tanks.

[Sgchick]

My Ph probe went out after 5 years...an amazing run I'd say. After calibrating my new double junction probe, can I just plug it in where the old one was and call it a day? Or do I have to reconfigure also in Apex fusion? I have the apex classic.

[five.five-six]

I’ve always used the RO water between dips between buffers and swirling and temp adjustment, though I’m sure the temp of the packets will change outside of the water.

How often do you guys calibrate?