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Unread 02/16/2004, 08:03 AM   #76
MarkKlier
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Wow, that is sad. In the tank given the structure of these compounds, they should lend themselves to protein skimming. That does little good for direct contact.....thanks for the information. MK


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Unread 02/25/2004, 07:09 PM   #77
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Does anyone know what the concentration of these dangerous compounds in zoos is?

cal3v,

I think it would be great if you tested some zoos, so that we could learn how dangerous they really are.


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Unread 02/25/2004, 09:16 PM   #78
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If I could I would, it seems like finding a way to do it is difficult, I am going to try and contact a company who is developing a detection kit(said it on an older press release) so maybe they are done already.


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Unread 02/27/2004, 03:56 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally posted by cal3v
If I could I would, it seems like finding a way to do it is difficult, I am going to try and contact a company who is developing a detection kit(said it on an older press release) so maybe they are done already.
Okay. I hope they have the kits.


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Unread 03/01/2004, 07:38 AM   #80
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Is it me, Or does any one else think the crazyglue had something to do with it? Crazyglue has been tested in the medical field and has been determined a DANGER. It is poisonous, And destroys tissue. In very small amount's dilluted by a good deal of water it is probably nothing to worry about, But fragging a crap load of corals in a small amount of water can be an accident waiting to happen.


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Unread 03/01/2004, 08:37 AM   #81
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Grazyglue had something to do with what? I've never heard of it being a danger other than gluing your fingers together. Do you have a link to support that?


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Unread 03/01/2004, 09:55 AM   #82
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First let me say that i am not making light of the situation of the family pet I am just stating that i think krazyglue had something to do with it. (But i could be wrong) I don't claim to be a authority in toxicity in zoa's, Or in fact have that great of knowledge of them.

Krazyglue has a chemical called (Cyanoacrylates) Which is poisonous. I do not have access to the testing done with lab animals from the university hospital anymore. I did a recent search, and could not get any info on injesting the chemical other than calling poison controll.
But i am still trying....................


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Unread 03/08/2004, 03:12 AM   #83
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Good reading, the topic has went from, wow lucky I haven't died yet to hog wash, unless you want to spice up dinner time!.

Anyway I never knew any coral was toxic, so I will getting some gloves, just in case. I would rather spend 15$ for a pair of gloves then my life or 5000$+ in hospital bills.

As for the dog I read about 1/2 of that other thread, the dog most likly ATE some of them. :[


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Unread 03/08/2004, 11:29 AM   #84
chrisg2004
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I just purchased a 10 pound piece of live rock loaded with diffrent color & species of Zoos . I added this piece to my 180 (with many large and small fish) hoping the zoos would spread around on to the other live rock. I added the rock by hand, very gently, but only touched under the rock, maybe just a few zoos were touched... and i am still alive to speak of this. What other fish pick at zoos? .. from what I read only a few perhaps? Is it just Morish Idols? I have small Picasso trigger, many small angels and these guys avoid the zoos like the plague so far. Just curious as I am new here... also what are the feeding / dosing requirements for zoos? Do you have to feed them?


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Unread 03/09/2004, 02:02 AM   #85
xfactor
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from what I have read the toxin is only released when the zoo is damaged or cut, like in fragging.


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Unread 03/09/2004, 08:15 AM   #86
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To be honest, the only thing I have been able to verify is that they can have the toxin in them, and that if it gets in your blood you will probably die.


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Unread 03/09/2004, 02:41 PM   #87
chrisg2004
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musicmaker

How did you verify this? Did you actually inject someone with zoo juice? Do you have aref. link to support this?


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Unread 03/09/2004, 03:09 PM   #88
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Depending on what part you want me to verify:

Can zoa's contain the toxin? Ask the guys in the coral forum and the chemistry forum. If you get a good conversation going please put a link to it in this thread.

Is palytoxin likely to kill you? Check the link on the first page of this thread. There is a link that talks about several different toxins, and lists palytoxin as one of the most toxic organic substances known to man.


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Unread 03/09/2004, 03:15 PM   #89
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Wow

I just read those posts... fascinating!


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Unread 03/09/2004, 03:22 PM   #90
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I just went back and re-read my original post to this thread. According to the link in that post, it would only take 4 MICROgrams of palytoxin to kill a person.

4 micrograms = 0.004 milligrams


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Unread 03/13/2004, 05:10 PM   #91
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I've had a scare with Zoanthids, whic occurred -AFTER- seeing the posts about toxicity.
I was fragging a colony of purple/green Zoanthids (simmilar to those in the gallery of Logical Reef). I had a hunk of the rock actually broken away, but the -mat- still attached the frag to the mother colony. As I was reaching for a pair of steel scissors, i heard SNAP, and felt something hit my eye. It was wet, it was squishy... it came from the zoanthid colony, which had broken by barely shifting.

It burned like -all hell-, at which point I dropped everything into the fragging bucket and rushed to the bathroom to rinse with water (more water, visine, more water... etc). The stinging stopped almost immediately, and I suffered no ill effects. I assume that rather than something toxic getting in my eye, it was something -salty- and foreign. None the less, it scared me.

I've handled zoos with a sufficient amount of open hangnails (salt water does that to me) and have had nothing more than a mild burn from the salt. I suppose it really does depend on what -kind- of Zoanthid, or Palythoa you're dealing with.

To be on the safe side, I would strongly avoid Palythoa (as I do, for more than just that reason) and stick with Zoanthids which are either Aquacultured, or are frags from fellow reefers (if you are greviously fearful of Zoanthid Death). Gloves are a "Good Thing" as well, because you don't get pickled arms... I sware, if I were to add dill to my tank, I could literally pickle my own arms, as much as I stick them in there...

Frankly, there are things way more common, and way more dangerous than a few species of Palythoa. I had two Cone snails in my tank that came in as hitch-hiking eggs. I have the shell of one of them, which is about 3/4" long. Large enough to give me trouble. I've been tagged by a fireworm which -literally- put me on the floor howling, and my Gonipora (yeah, I have one, let's move on) causes a weird stinging and numbness if I accidentally touch it. Not to mention that the Nudibranches which feed on Zoanthids could be to blame for SOME of these incidents... they would tend to have the chemicals in higher concentration, right?

Also, you have to take into account how sensitive a given person is, as to whether they will react violently to a low dosage. A very good budy of mine in Fla cannot stick his arm into his own tank. He is -horribly- alergic to the chemicals corals put off naturally, especially Coralimorphs. He has to wear armpit-high gloves, or he ends up with what looks like massive sunburn, or Psoriosis on his arms. I imagine if he got -any- zoanthid toxin on his skin, he'd be passing out. He recently got out of the hospital after stepping in a jellyfish. I saw the pictures... his whole leg looked like sausage. Not pretty. There was draining involved. Just... gross. But, I'm not telling people that they should run screaming from the beaches... nahh, just him.

Taking all of those things into account... watch your back. Wash your hands, wash your arms. Use a strong soap and hot water. Hell, douse with vinegar to remove stinging cells. Wear gloves if all else fails. Distribute them at reef meetings under the "Safe Zoo Awareness" campaign... "No Reef-Love if you've got no Reef-Glove"

-Sumbel.
Who is loath to leave things on a sour note in her posts.


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Unread 03/15/2004, 09:39 AM   #92
Mexican Hermit
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I think that the guy's who's dog died drank out of a bucket with Frags. I bet the consentration of the palytoxin was a lot higher than in a tank. I also think that the level of stress on the zoo's makes the toxin come out of the zoo.

I think the point of the thread is to be careful.

M2C.

MH


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Unread 04/05/2004, 08:32 AM   #93
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Quote:
The daddy long leg spider also has a very potent toxin, but it's not able to deliver it to humans, only its prey. I'm guessing however a Zoo is set up to utilize the toxin, means it normally can't hurt a human.
Wrong on both counts. A "daddy long legs" can penetrate human skin AND it's toxin is mild at best. Mythbuster's proved this urban legend false.


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Unread 05/28/2004, 07:04 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally posted by ErikS
Wrong on both counts. A "daddy long legs" can penetrate human skin AND it's toxin is mild at best. Mythbuster's proved this urban legend false.
There is the answer: Call in mythbusters!

I also think the answer lies somewhere in between the extremes being discussed here!


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Unread 06/06/2004, 11:21 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlackSumbel
"No Reef-Love if you've got no Reef-Glove"

LMAO


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Unread 07/29/2004, 09:03 PM   #96
Muttling
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I'm not sure where these guys got their information, but here's an interesting tid bit.


Quote:
Palytoxin was first isolated from the soft coral Palythoa toxica. Several species of Palythoa are used in aquariums, but do not produce the toxin. Originally, it was only found in a single tidal pool on the island of Maui in Hawaii and native Hawaiians used to coat spear points with a red seaweed from the pool. Toxin-containing corals appear to be randomly and sparingly distributed throughout the South Pacific and there is now a school of thought that suggests that the coral is simply concentrating the toxin made by a dinoflagellate (a small single-celled organism) called Ostreopis siamensis.
http://www.cbwinfo.com/Biological/Toxins/Palytoxin.html


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Unread 07/29/2004, 11:31 PM   #97
reef
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I have been fraging zoos for 10 plus years with no issue, no gloves. I do not want to dilute the potential danger for a paticular special species but lets get some facts soon. I am sure there has to be a scientist on this sight that can dispell some of this fear.


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Unread 07/30/2004, 08:06 AM   #98
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I think that has been done already, reef.

Muttling, thanks for the additional info.


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Unread 08/05/2004, 10:26 PM   #99
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Unread 08/06/2004, 05:54 AM   #100
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Originally posted by DouglasTiede
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