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01/12/2019, 03:05 PM | #51 |
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Btw appreciate all the knowledge you are sharing with me...I am an engineer and absolut data driven human being. I am drinking all this knowledge that is being dropped here...so thank you
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01/12/2019, 03:16 PM | #52 |
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The head curve published by us is without the quick couplers. The native output of an L1 without quick coupler is actually 1.5”. Reducing it to 3/4” is a pretty big reduction. Additionally, removing the input quick coupler will inprove performance. The native input is 2” without coupler. Also, placing the pump on a watt meter is a vital piece of information to understand whats really going on with your system, regardless of the product used.
Pumps are not a simple device to install and extract the maximum potential from. Your original post assumed the pump was weak but it actually turned out to be user error as you are the only who selected the max flow when performing caibration then measured this maximum and blamed the pump. L1 volutes are designed for larger systems than a simple return function and given your plumbing it may not have been the most appropriate choice. Other people are chiming in here to help you but I get the impression from your posts here and your posts on another popular forum that you have made up your mind. That is your decision and I respect that but at this point it seems like we’re beating a dead horse.
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01/12/2019, 03:24 PM | #53 |
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Again I remind you that most standard tanks have a drill hole for a bulk heads that transition to 3/4" loc line hoes.
My pvc out of the bulk head is 1", but all the line locs hose in the market are 3/4" meaning there is no escaping they eventually we need 3/4" at the end of the return line. Not to beat on ecotech any more: here is the conclusion am getting from reading between the lines: Saying not all pumps are the same for me means: this is what it is, the performance am observing is vectra l1 capabilities. Saying vectra have 1.5" outlet and reduction impact vectra means: Vectra is not the right pump for standard tanks, and not suitable for tanks that requires above 700 800 gph return. Which if we apply the 5 to 10 times turn around means anything above 50 to 100gallon tanks. I now feel much more at peace buying and RD3 which is not that much cost diffrence from vectra, or syncra 5.0 which more than half the price of vectra... I just wished such data was available before I spent 500$ on vectra ha ha. I am still super happy with every other ecotech I own which are many... Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk Last edited by ohashimz; 01/12/2019 at 03:33 PM. |
01/12/2019, 03:33 PM | #54 | |
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That said, the L1 is a larger pump with a larger diameter output so reducing it down will have more of an impact on the L1 than it would on a smaller pump such as the M1 which I eluded to in my previous responses. In this case, the Vectra L1 may not be the best choice for your application unless you can reduce friction losses. The Vectra M1 may result in similar performance because it would see less head loss (with your existing plumbing) due to it being a 3/4” output. If you were running a manifold to feed other devices such as reactors or a chiller, then the L1 could be split and you could take advantage of the flow without having as much of an impact on the return flow as diverting some of the flow would in theory reduce the friction losses up above. I know that may seem counter intuitive but much of that pumps output is being bottlenecked by the plumbing so you could rob flow from it for a manifold without impacting the return flow much if any.
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01/12/2019, 03:35 PM | #55 |
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I was referring to the loc lines. I have never seen loc lines more than 3/4"...these are the standards
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01/12/2019, 03:39 PM | #56 | ||
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01/12/2019, 03:43 PM | #57 |
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So my earlier conclusions hold ground lol...oh man I had the wrong impression of vectra...
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01/12/2019, 03:50 PM | #58 | |
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01/12/2019, 04:02 PM | #59 | |
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If we know my system is standard and speak to most of tanks out there. If we know that other pumps perform way better on my system than vectra. Then my conclusion is true. I guarantee you if ppl including yourself actually measured your vectra u will be suprised. Otherwise someone should give me a solution that I can apply on my standard 160g tank other than put your tank on the ground.after all this analysis and hydro dynamic calculation I do not see a suggestion to my standard system...I am willing to change my plum ingredients conpletly as far as I have a solution thay do not requir me to build custom tank lol... From a customer point of view, my conclusion is correct since other pumps do not have this issue. that means other pumps more suitable to such tanks. From technixhal stand point and from ecotech stand point, of course there is a reason why performance is what it is..but should this matter to customers? Would that justify spending such money on pump that do not output 75% of its rated flow??? I think not. Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk |
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01/12/2019, 04:10 PM | #60 | |
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01/12/2019, 04:15 PM | #61 | |
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How do you plumb a standard 160G tank and sump for a return rate of 1200 to 1600gph using vectra... Please elaborate. Reason why I am pressing you is because you are not providing solutions. Where I do not think there is any. Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk |
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01/12/2019, 04:29 PM | #62 | |
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2) Change the tubing between your PVC Wye and 3/4” bulkheads in the overflow from 3/4” to 1” and use a 1” elbow with a 3/4” bushing to connect to the 3/4” lockline bulkheads or a 3/4” threaded by 1” street L. Then use 1” barbs on the 1” elbows and the 1” PVC Wye with 1” tubing. Between the increase in tubing size and the increased barb ID, that will result in more than 1’ of reduced head loss. I’m guess those two changes alone will reduce headloss by 4’ and get you right where you want to be in terms of taget flow or even more with that pump. If you were to hard plumb that pump from the pump to the larger sensor and from the sensor to the bottom of the tank, you would see an even bigger improvement simply by eliminating those barb fittings.
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01/12/2019, 04:43 PM | #63 | |||||
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There may be something else at play here but I think the L1 just wasn't a good choice for your setup with its existing plumbing. It seems you have already moved on and we're beating a dead horse but if you want to fix the issues re-plumb it without the restrictions like Slief has pointed out and flow will be increased.
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01/12/2019, 05:20 PM | #64 | |
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01/12/2019, 06:06 PM | #65 | |
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01/12/2019, 08:05 PM | #66 |
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01/12/2019, 08:05 PM | #67 | |
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01/13/2019, 12:42 AM | #68 | |
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They sell a Sch40 adapter to connect it to larger sch40 plumbing straight from the pump. https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/vectr...iABEgIhivD_BwE
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01/13/2019, 10:07 AM | #69 | |
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Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs |
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01/14/2019, 04:59 PM | #70 | |
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Thay being said, my RD80 is pushing steady 1300gph on the same plumbing, so I am ol with the loc lines. I would say no harm with loc line as long as you get a pump than can handle the pressure. AC pumps dp fantastic job there, and if you want DC oump pay attention to the real flow given they are all expensive any way. I though I was saving 200$ by going vectra not RD I now realized I just wanted 500$ lol. Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk |
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01/14/2019, 10:31 PM | #71 | |
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Man, I just read through this whole thread and one thing is abundantly clear; You just don't get it. Your comparisons of the RD3 and the Vectra are basically equal to you complaining that you bought a ford F-150 pickup with a gasoline engine but it has a hard time towing 5,000 lbs, so you went out and bought a Chevy pickup with a Durmax Diesel and Allison transmission and now you can tow 10,000lbs - so obviously the Chevy is a better truck. It doesn't work that way. A pump can be designed for pressure, for flow or for both. You could put 20 different pumps all rated for 3100gph in your system and get 20 different flow rates. That alone doesn't mean that any one of those pumps is any better than another. When setting up your return, you have to do one of two things - pick a pump that matches the plumbing that you already have or will have OR design your plumbing to match the characteristics of the pump you want to get. You can't complain about a pump not performing as you expected it to when you put a high flow, low pressure pump in an undersized, highly restricted return setup. You say that your plumbing is simple and indicative of the average? I beg to differ. Barb fittings are TERRIBLE. The inner diameter of a 1" barb is close to the inner diameter 3/4" hose. That restriction adds huge head losses; but it's not just the restriction - you also have to think about the turbulence that those hard corners add to the flow in the pipe. You want the least restrictive flow possible? Get the BSPT to 1.5" Schedule 40 adapter for the Vectra, run spaflex up to a 1.5" bulkhead and use a 120 degree wye in the tank - it has a 1.5" spigot that will slip right into a 1.5" bulkhead and two 1" slips that you could then glue a 1" slip to 3/4" thread bushing and screw in your loclines. Lastly, remember that you're not just paying for hardware. For many people the ability to sync up their Vectra, Vortech and Radion from a single app is worth the price of the pump over a $150 Syncra. The Vectra didn't work for you? That's too bad. The RD3 works better? Great! But don't knock a pump that plenty of people are having no issues with because you put it in a situation that brings out it's worst attributes. Remember; if you judge a fish by it's abilty to climb a tree..... |
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01/14/2019, 10:41 PM | #72 | |
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Let me try one more time in simple terms: I am a customer, I do not care why something do not work and other works. I just care about getting what works. customers experince and data posted on forums is what I would follow... I am comparing 2 pumps that are both positioned in the same market and the same industry as a high end aquarium DC pumps...end of story. If there are fine prints it should be known, and if manufacturers are not saying it. We as customers share our experience so others know. I wasted money on vectra and maybe it was my fault I trusted ecotech or I did not do enough technical analysis like you...it do not matter. At least by sharing my experience someone else avoid the same mistake if they need specific flow and have similar plumbing. So before you insult me, think where am coming from. I do not really care about you lengthy justification why vectra did not work on my setup while other pump worked. Or your assumption that do not have data to back it up... As an example: the reality is many ppl are complaining about vectra. See the rating on brs, see the forums are full with complaints. So before you give wrong impressions to readers that my issue is isolated incident you should provide data like what I did.. As a customer I go with what work for me. Cheers mate. Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk Last edited by ohashimz; 01/14/2019 at 11:24 PM. |
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01/14/2019, 10:48 PM | #73 |
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And btw the diffrence between vectra and Rd 80 is like 200$.
So its not that big of difference and as far as am concerned I wasted 500 not saved 200. But that's not the point, I am not advocating RD, am just saying that's what I went with. Cheers again Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk Last edited by ohashimz; 01/14/2019 at 11:12 PM. |
08/15/2019, 09:25 AM | #74 |
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Some update relavent to this post. Credit is given when credit is due.
So i have installed my vectra L1 on my 2nd system (I have 2 large systems one I installed the red dragon and moved the vectra to my frag tank) Yesterday my L1 stopped working, when I took it out look like it suffered the issue of the rotor grinding against the housing and melted the housing. I got the pump end of 2017 and used it for ~18 months. I called @EcoTech Marine ready for any answer given the pump is outside its 1 year warranty. I was extremely suprised, the customer support rep was super nice, asked me for some pictures and informations then immediately offered to change my pump without hassle or anything. They offered to send me a brand new L2 vectra as a replacment. This was amazing customer service and lived up to ecotech marine's reputation. I have 12 mp40 at home, had purchased and upgraded 6 mp10. Over the last 7 years I have purchased a total of 18 vortechs, numerous vortech upgrade kits, vectra l1 and 6 hydra 52(hydra is also ecotech in my books. So am a hard core supporter of their products. My first bad experince was the vectra L1 which clearly is something they have addressed and did not let their customers down. Kudos to them really, they gained my trust back. Thank you guys. Last edited by ohashimz; 08/15/2019 at 09:47 AM. |
08/18/2019, 11:36 AM | #75 |
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Their CS is still top notch.
Have you started shifting your mp40 pumps to QD? I just finished converting my last non qd pumps with the upgrade kits. I have 9 myself (2-60, 7-40). My wife is very happy with the change
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