what CAN you do if you do not have a a QT system?

[BonesCJ]

Been wondering, for folks who do not have a QT system, besides the usual drip acclimating and such is there anything you can do during that time to at least do what you can to minimize disease spread? I realize parasites have to be treated via QT.

I have seen folks mention a FW dip for fish also.

[mcgyvr]

If there was a viable tried/true alternative do you think people would still wait 30+ days in a QT...
Any viable alternative would render QT obsolete..

I buy from sources I trust and take my chances so no QT... No drip.. No acclimations even.. Float the bag for 10-15 minutes and into the tank it goes.. 15+ years without issue (knock on wood)

[FishAndPhysics]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

If there was a viable tried/true alternative do you think people would still wait 30+ days in a QT...
Any viable alternative would render QT obsolete..

I buy from sources I trust and take my chances so no QT... No drip.. No acclimations even.. Float the bag for 10-15 minutes and into the tank it goes.. 15+ years without issue (knock on wood)

If you are buying from a vendor which ships or sells at 1.025 and you keep your tank at the same, this is correct method (barring obvious caveats about the risks of no quarantine, which Mcgyvr is aware of) . However, some vendors sell at much lower salinity (1.018 ish), to suppress (not usually low enough to cure) ich. Mcgyvr, I suspect you would agree that in this case some sort of salinity acclimation is required?

Just didn't want a novice to the hobby to be salinity shocking fish by .006 or more because they misunderstood your message.

[billwill]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

If there was a viable tried/true alternative do you think people would still wait 30+ days in a QT...
Any viable alternative would render QT obsolete..

I buy from sources I trust and take my chances so no QT... No drip.. No acclimations even.. Float the bag for 10-15 minutes and into the tank it goes.. 15+ years without issue (knock on wood)

What he said, and I’ve been doing it that way for 22+ years. I won’t lie, I’ve lost fish. I’m not much of a believer in a qt tank because I think it causes even more stress, especially when discussing tangs and wrasses, the only fish I seem to want.


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[hkgar]

You can do TTM (Tank Transfer Method) using 5 gallon pails. I do that and treat wit Prazi Pro on the 2nd and 4th transfers. TTM takes 12 days

[hkgar]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

If there was a viable tried/true alternative do you think people would still wait 30+ days in a QT...
Any viable alternative would render QT obsolete..

I buy from sources I trust and take my chances so no QT... No drip.. No acclimations even.. Float the bag for 10-15 minutes and into the tank it goes.. 15+ years without issue (knock on wood)

Took me nine years, but it happened. Only bought from LA and the LFS, well trusted and respected in the State. Lost nine of 10 fish

[nereefpat]

Originally Posted by hkgar

You can do TTM (Tank Transfer Method) using 5 gallon pails. I do that and treat wit Prazi Pro on the 2nd and 4th transfers. TTM takes 12 days

This is what I've done this time around. I use a couple rubbermaids instead of buckets.

It takes:
2 containers
2 heaters
1 air pump with stones and airline that are thrown away or bleached
A few pvc fittings

[mcgyvr]

Originally Posted by FishAndPhysics

If you are buying from a vendor which ships or sells at 1.025 and you keep your tank at the same, this is correct method (barring obvious caveats about the risks of no quarantine, which Mcgyvr is aware of) . However, some vendors sell at much lower salinity (1.018 ish), to suppress (not usually low enough to cure) ich. Mcgyvr, I suspect you would agree that in this case some sort of salinity acclimation is required?

Just didn't want a novice to the hobby to be salinity shocking fish by .006 or more because they misunderstood your message.

I would err.. umm... nope..
But I'm me and a straight up rebel without a cause..

Kids.. don't try this at home...

[FishAndPhysics]

Just more disclaimers, while TTM is a good treatment for ich, it is not a cure all. IMO, nothing beats just letting fish sit in a tank for a month or so and looking at them. TTM can be a solution in search of a problem otherwise.

[dkeller_nc]

Yeah, there is unfortunately no substitute for quarantine. This is especially true when buying shipped fish where their livestock is concentrated and there's a very high turnover in their tanks.

A comment for folks buying shipped fish that arrive after 24 hours in the bag and at a considerably lower salinity than your tanks. Generally speaking, ammonia will build up in the bag over the shipping interval, and the pH will also go down from the CO2 respired from the fish in the bag. Because ammonia is considerably less toxic in its ionized form (NH4+ vs. NH3) at the lower pH in the bag, and because the pH will rapidly rise as CO2 is off-gassed when the bag is opened, it's not a good idea to open the bag and put the fish+bag water in a bucket for drip acclimation.

You're far better off putting a pinhole in the bag to get a small water sample to let you measure the salinity, taping that pinhole, adjusting some saltwater for the bucket/quarantine tank to the salinity in the bag, then opening the bag and transferring just the fish (with no bag water) into the QT/bucket.

[Sk8r]

Main thing, aside, is get your water quality spot on, maintain stable for several weeks before getting fish, then take your chance, buy, put the fish in and do not plan to add any other fish for the rest of time.

If you do draw the short straw and have a problem, there are 'waiting protocols' such as 72 days from the last appearance of ich on anybody that can let you re-stock, but there is a remote chance that 72 days may be too soon. Ich may not be fatal, if you have a very healthy water system and healthy fish. Sometimes they can survive it and never have it again. But qt if you possibly, possibly can.

[hkgar]

Originally Posted by FishAndPhysics

Just more disclaimers, while TTM is a good treatment for ich, it is not a cure all. IMO, nothing beats just letting fish sit in a tank for a month or so and looking at them. TTM can be a solution in search of a problem otherwise.

There are 3 cures for Ick. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1990809

[dkeller_nc]

Originally Posted by hkgar

You can do TTM (Tank Transfer Method) using 5 gallon pails. I do that and treat wit Prazi Pro on the 2nd and 4th transfers. TTM takes 12 days

No matter how long I've been doing this (first reef tank in 1990), I can always learn something new. Never occurred to me to do the TT in 5-gallon buckets, I always used 10g tanks or used the hypo method on a 20g with live rock for particularly skittish fish that absolutely require a substrate, such as certain wrasses.

While I'd be skeptical of 5 gallon buckets for large fish, almost all of the ones I purchase are in the 1" to 2" range, and this is a great idea - way, way easier to do TT in an unbreakable containers with a handle than a glass tank, and the buckets would be vastly easier to sanitize after the subjects are transferred to the next one.

Thanks Gary!

[Uncle99]

Originally Posted by FishAndPhysics

Just more disclaimers, while TTM is a good treatment for ich, it is not a cure all. IMO, nothing beats just letting fish sit in a tank for a month or so and looking at them. TTM can be a solution in search of a problem otherwise.

True....nothing better than QT....

[billdogg]

Although I have a 20L that I use as a observation tank, I've been using the 5g bucket TT /prazipro method for years. Once the fish have gone through TTM, they spend another couple weeks minimum in the OT. My only exception to that was my Blue Star Leopard wrasses. After TT they went straight into the DT.

I use the OT to bring the salinity up to where it needs to be as well.