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06/07/2007, 02:38 PM | #76 |
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jamn, do you use those APT pumps?
I've been looking at the $78 pumps from omega.com... comparable?
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06/07/2007, 02:40 PM | #77 | |
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Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. Current Tank Info: 225 gal reef, DSB, 40 g sump w/ LRT100 return, 37 g pre-sump, 3 MH 250 W 15K, 4 96 W PC dual actinic,ETS 1500 Skim.w/LRT70, 20 lb Ca R., 40 W UV, 1/3 HP chiller, two 350 W Htrs, Neptune II Cont., 330 P LR/ 330 P LS. 55 gal Refugium |
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06/07/2007, 02:41 PM | #78 |
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I use the two-head dosing pump from twopartsolution.com($120), digital timer from Home Depot($17), 10 feet of 1.6mm od hose from two part($10), and two milk jugs(free). I could've put together my own 2 part from scratch, but twopartsolution makes it too easy, so $22 for 6 gallons of that. I have the time turn it on at 3AM when my ph has dropped and it runs for 50 minutes with Alk going into the skimmer area at the beginning of my sump and CA going in by the return pump. It only adds .75ml per minute of each, so no precipitation that I can see. This is a pretty easy setup. I was dosing it by hand at night, but this takes care of that. As my SPS and clams grow, it's easy enough to lengthen the dosing period(I also have an MRC Kalkwasser reactor with my top off) to increase CA and Alk. I check Mg every few weeks and add that by hand when necessary.
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06/07/2007, 02:45 PM | #79 | |
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Quote:
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Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. Current Tank Info: 225 gal reef, DSB, 40 g sump w/ LRT100 return, 37 g pre-sump, 3 MH 250 W 15K, 4 96 W PC dual actinic,ETS 1500 Skim.w/LRT70, 20 lb Ca R., 40 W UV, 1/3 HP chiller, two 350 W Htrs, Neptune II Cont., 330 P LR/ 330 P LS. 55 gal Refugium |
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06/07/2007, 02:47 PM | #80 |
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"I would never dare to copy and paste without mentioning the author. I went trough the exercise of finding the range of prices, costs, calculate the yields prepare the spreadsheets and make the charts. All this just for fun so if something is wrong, beers are on me "
It seemed familiar... which probably means you posted it elsewhere and I read it there. I'll PM you later about the ProCal... I gotta be doing something wrong with this thing.
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06/07/2007, 02:57 PM | #81 |
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If I remember well the cost charts I am posting for the first time. I have used the evaporation chart several times.
Welcome to the PM, if there is anything I can do to help.
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Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. Current Tank Info: 225 gal reef, DSB, 40 g sump w/ LRT100 return, 37 g pre-sump, 3 MH 250 W 15K, 4 96 W PC dual actinic,ETS 1500 Skim.w/LRT70, 20 lb Ca R., 40 W UV, 1/3 HP chiller, two 350 W Htrs, Neptune II Cont., 330 P LR/ 330 P LS. 55 gal Refugium |
06/07/2007, 03:13 PM | #82 |
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Hi Rich,
I actually dose manually ... but i do know a few people that use that pump and i've heard no complaints. You can get the pump setup to does up to 5.6 ml /min so that is an added +. Check out the link below. hxxp://www.bharada.com/aquaria_hardware.html#dosingpumps |
06/07/2007, 03:26 PM | #83 | |
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Um... You need to dose Mg also for a Ca. Reactor setup unless your media used has Mg in it. EDIT- Nevermind I just saw that jdieck already pointed this out previously. |
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06/07/2007, 03:58 PM | #84 | |
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Anyone have a good mailorder source for dolomite to add to my reactor? I have looked around town and none of the nurseries carry it. |
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06/07/2007, 07:31 PM | #85 | ||
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As to the Mg dosing, there are reactor media brands that do have Mg in them, but that's a decent point and since it's not really much of a factor, I'll take it out of the decision matrix. However, the other points still weigh on my mind.
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06/07/2007, 09:10 PM | #86 |
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When I priced reactors I came up with similar numbers to what Rich stated earlier in the thread.
High end 2 part ~ $600 High end Ca Rx ~ $1000 FWIW in all my research I decided on a Geo reactor(MRC was second) if that helps any....and poor George has answered a bunch of my questions on reactors and skimmers without my spending a dime Chris
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"Try to learn something about everything and everything about something" -- Thomas H. Huxley Current Tank Info: 70 gallon mixed reef |
06/07/2007, 10:10 PM | #87 |
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nevermind, i type too slow
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06/08/2007, 12:13 AM | #88 | |
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Here was my cost comparison: REACTOR - Reeftek Reactor: $300 Regulator: $95 Co2 Equipment: $80 Media: $40 Feed pump: $20 pH controller: $150 Total: $685 2 Part - Pump: $139 (Price was recently raised to $199 per innovativeaquatics). 2 part: ~ $20 total 2 One Gallon Containers ~ $2 Total: $161 Pretty big price difference. 2 part, as previously mentioned, was significantly easier to setup/maintain, as well. As far a "trace elements" are considered, I would be very, very surprised if you noticed any sort of difference in your tank. If you didn't do water changes for a year, maybe you'd run into "trace element" issues, but your problems would probably extend beyond the lack of trace elements. Seriously, if you're really concerned about dosing 2-part being unnatural, then you should also consider your lighting, skimming, synthetic salt, etc. |
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06/08/2007, 12:39 AM | #89 |
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For those that have space for a good sized reservoir, keep in mind that dosing Kalk trough a reservoir and a peristaltic pump could be even cheaper than two part.
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Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. Current Tank Info: 225 gal reef, DSB, 40 g sump w/ LRT100 return, 37 g pre-sump, 3 MH 250 W 15K, 4 96 W PC dual actinic,ETS 1500 Skim.w/LRT70, 20 lb Ca R., 40 W UV, 1/3 HP chiller, two 350 W Htrs, Neptune II Cont., 330 P LR/ 330 P LS. 55 gal Refugium |
06/08/2007, 12:55 AM | #90 |
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I think kalk is a good supplement to a CA reactor, due to pH being lowered by co2. However, kalk by itself isn't too hot, ime... you either end up with too much kalk being dosed along with evaporation (low ca/alk demands) or not enough (which warrants using 2 part). In the latter situation, you might as well dose the 2 part w/o kalk.
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06/08/2007, 06:44 AM | #91 | ||
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I also don't recall using the word "unnatural" with regard to the 2 part component chemicals. What I did say was: Quote:
Furthermore because the reactor was using exactly the core components that nature used herself to create the coral in the first place, that it more closely replicated the process in reverse, rather than a 2 part system. I stand by these two points. How significant they are in the grand scheme of things, is anyone's guess, though. They might not amount to any difference in tank health at all. But I think it's worth asking the question.
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06/08/2007, 06:46 AM | #92 | |
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06/08/2007, 07:05 AM | #93 | |
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06/08/2007, 07:25 AM | #94 | |
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Could it not be argued that once set up, that there's no need for a pH probe in a reactor system? Sure, you have to test pH during the setup process, but once done, it's over. For that, one doesn't need a probe, either. However in my case, my tank pH tends to run a tad high anyway, so the reducing effect is welcome. Furthermore, we ought to be periodically checking our tank pH anyway, so I don't see this as a necessary expenditure. Again, I'm just trying to get my head around all this. The 2 part systems really do have a lot going for them, and I've been using B-Ionic for years, but it has some drawbacks, and I'm considering my alternatives.
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06/08/2007, 07:46 AM | #95 |
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ph probe and meter are around $100 you are still less than a reactor.If you think that you are not going to mess with the reactor you are mistaken.Never mind the pump that can fail.My buddy had the Deltec that failed after 4 months and he was lucky the store owner gave him another reactor(after 3 weeks) because he had to order the pump.Ask Anthony Calfo what he thinks of them and there reliability.
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06/08/2007, 08:46 AM | #96 | |
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To suggest that you don't have to twaddle with drip rate or dosing pumps in a 2 part solution is irresponsibly misleading. Dripping 2-part can easily drive pH out of sight if you don't bake the soda, which means you have to monitor tank pH just the same as you do with a reactor. Everything in this hobby requires some sort of tweaking. Period. Also, I find it amusing that the scenario you indicate would happen. Unless your friend broke the reactor housing, the pump they use is an off-the-shelf Eheim. They're available everywhere. Dosing pumps can fail, too. I think everyone is clear on the fact that a reactor setup will cost more than plastic jugs and a couple dosing pumps and controllers to activate them. What's not been made clear is that the additional cost brings some benefits, though perhaps those benefits don't mean much to the 2 part guys, which is why you chose that route. And what's not fair is to compare DIY 2 part systems to branded reactors. Not once has there been a comparison to a DIY reactor. So that's not entirely forthright. What has not been made clear which I've learned so far is that with the cost savings seems to come a sacrifice of convenience, and what I perceive to be some very legitimate questions about component quality and consistency. There are also valid points to be made for a reactor that have not been presented fairly. I think it's misleading to imply that 2 part systems are completely care-free and without their own share of risks and sacrifices of convenience, which is the picture that's being painted here. Case in point, it wasn't until page 4 of this dialog (nearly page 5, at the rate we're going) that the baking of one component came up. Funny how that didn't rear its head until now. I hoped for an honest assessment of the pros and cons of each type of strategy. What I feel hasn't been done here thoroughly is the presentation of the downsides of a 2 part system, and what I perceive to be an exaggeration of the cost and complexity of a reactor. For some of you, you are more comfortable with one than the other. For instance, fishdoc11 has been very clear that he's voicing his opinion based on his preferences and needs. But the way it's been presented here by some unfairly skews a reader to a 2 part system which may not be what they need based on their tank and lifestyle.
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"Following the path of least resistance is what makes rivers, and men, crooked." Last edited by Rovert; 06/08/2007 at 09:46 AM. |
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06/08/2007, 08:57 AM | #97 |
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I ran the 2 part on my 150 for over 2 years.I did use kalk only because of my low Ph.I never messed with the doser unit.Only when I added 3 or 4 more corals did I need to adjust the dosage and that wasn't constant.More often than not I left the doser alone for several months.Once you know your tanks needs its pretty much leave it alone.You may have to change the time to dose more but I can tell you for the most part I would test 3 times per week and my readings were pretty much the same.I never fiddle with the thing.I used the aqua medic reef doser.My buddy will tell you the same thing it works great.I will be using the same method on my large tank.It will however be interesting to see how much is needed on a large tank.Yes it is a bit of a pain to bake the baking soda but if your ph is low you should bake it if your ph is high or regular you don't need to bake it.Like I said on a large tank(300 plus 100 gal sump) I don't know once the tank is full of corals how much of the 2 part I will need.I think if it gets to the point where I need 1 gallon per day of each it would be a real pain to do so but I don't think I will need more than 1 gal per week based on my old tank and its needs
Last edited by steve the plumb; 06/08/2007 at 09:03 AM. |
06/08/2007, 09:00 AM | #98 | |
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cheers
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06/08/2007, 09:07 AM | #99 |
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You bake the baking soda in the oven at 350 for one hour.It drys the baking soda or gets as much of the humidity out.Its more for people that have a low ph(like myself)If your ph is normal to high you don't need to bake it.Its even easier then less preperation.I used to bake a pound or two at a time and it was fairly simple.You can then make your batch of cal and alk and store it.I used to top off my jugs at the end of each week
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06/08/2007, 09:48 AM | #100 |
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Does it make a big difference if you use for the alk component sodium bicarbonate or sodium carbonate? Supposedly the sodium bicarbonate lowers pH and the sodium carbonate raises the pH. Is it significant? Thanks!
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