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[lifeoffaith]

Where are you getting your live rock?

[Michael Hoaster]

That's a great question, lifeoffaith. With very few live rock options remaining, a lot of people are using dead rock.

I'm getting farmed, Florida live rock from gulfliverockdotcom. I used this same rock in v1. It's good stuff, with macros, sponges, and a whole lot of diversity. And it's reasonable, with shipping included in the price.

[lifeoffaith]

Cool. I really want to buy some like that, it's just crazy expensive to ship. I've looked at Tampa Bay Live Rock, but haven't really looked at Gulf Live Rock.

[McPuff]

Michael, you have unknowingly convinced me to buy some more damsels. I've got a half black (one died or I'd have 2) and 2 azure damsels going through TTM right now. Tonight they'll go into tank #2 so it's early. Already enjoying their "rambunctiousness" and attitudes. I assume the Talbott's will not bother them much once they are finally added to the display. :0) Still contemplating some platys/mollies as well.

[Michael Hoaster]

That's cool McPuff! I'm glad to hear you're enjoying them. In my research and limited experience with them, the Talbots are likely the most timid of all the damsels, so you were right to get them in first. How many of them do you have? Do they do OK in your community?

I like the Silver (white) Mollies. The black ones are very difficult to see. With their algae diet and live bearing reproduction, mollies effectively turn algae into feeder fish. They don't look too out of place in my tank, but may look weird in a reef tank. So maybe that's a point in the black mollies' favor. They won't look weird if you don't see 'em!

I look forward to seeing what you come up with!

[Chasmodes]

The tank is looking great Michael! It's fun following the progress.

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks Kevin! I appreciate the encouragement.

It is nice to be able to get the tank looking good. I can enjoy it for a few days, then the uglies come back. Part of the process. I am very happy with the progress of the Manatee Grass. A few blades are getting near the water surface! It is progressing a lot faster than my first attempt. I'm pretty sure my dirty sand bed had something to do with that. Also the quality of the plants I got from SaltySully was great! The algae phase is also progressing quicker, which is good. In v1, I kept the tank nutrient poor for maybe too long, delaying the inevitable. By starting this tank with higher nutrients and bio-diversity, I'm driving the system harder, earlier.

I'm enjoying the do-over. Applying what I learned before, to this tank, seems to be working well. So far, so good!

[McPuff]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

That's cool McPuff! I'm glad to hear you're enjoying them. In my research and limited experience with them, the Talbots are likely the most timid of all the damsels, so you were right to get them in first. How many of them do you have? Do they do OK in your community?

I like the Silver (white) Mollies. The black ones are very difficult to see. With their algae diet and live bearing reproduction, mollies effectively turn algae into feeder fish. They don't look too out of place in my tank, but may look weird in a reef tank. So maybe that's a point in the black mollies' favor. They won't look weird if you don't see 'em!

I look forward to seeing what you come up with!

I just have the one Talbott's. Don't plan to get any more of them. He's been a great citizen for about 3 years. As for the mollies, I may even consider the silver or white so they DO stand out. They add some more movement to the reef which is always great. And having fresh food for the other fish sounds like a great benefit. :0)

[Michael Hoaster]

THREE MONTHS IN!

Yesterday marks the three month point in my aquarium's life. I still have lot's of algae, but the Manatee grass is doing very well. Last weekend I removed a large patch of (mostly) cyanobacteria from the back wall, and it hasn't returned. I'll go after another large patch on the new fake wall this weekend.

I'm walking a tightrope right now, trying to get rid of algae, while also trying to coax new macros to grow. It's tricky! It doesn't help that this time of year, the selection of macros available is pretty skimpy, and what is available isn't in great shape. I don't have all the tools I need right now, which is frustrating.

So, if you are contemplating setting up a macro tank, it's better to start it in the spring or summer, when the selection is better. Or you could do what Kataro did, and collect macros for a while in a holding tank, before starting up your display. That worked pretty spectacularly for him!

My point is that you need to have your desired macros/plants ready to step in and take up nutrients, once you've got your algae on the ropes. Otherwise the algae just comes back. It's a challenging changeover, considering algae's advantages over plants. This is where the aquarist actions play a major role. We have to keep removing algae biomass, while trying to favor the plants we want to replace them.

[Michael Hoaster]

Off topic, but I had another rarely-seen-animal encounter yesterday. Again, it happened while I was cross country skiing at my local hill. It actually happened on the same stretch of trail I saw the moose on! I was starting downhill, when I saw an animal on the trail. When it saw me, it turned and ran, but stayed on the trail! It was a lynx! It moved so easily, it was actually pulling away from me. I skied behind it for a hundred yards or so, before it veered off into the woods. It was spectacular and thrilling, not to just see one, but to actually interact with one! They are very rarely seen. A real privilege!

[Chasmodes]

Very cool animal sighting!

Do you prune your Ulva? I was wondering about using the Ulva to outcompete the algae (since it does so well) by maybe not pruning it? Or, do you already do that?

[Michael Hoaster]

Kevin, I did prune my ulva when it was growing quickly. I exported it to another tank, to keep some handy.

I think Ulva is the best macro for nutrient competition with algae. Your strategy should work. When nutrients are high, it grows spectacularly.

Now that my tank's nutrients are declining, it is less effective. Dinos and cyano have overtaken it. When I removed the large patch of cyano, I noticed there was lots of ulva remaining, so hopefully it will step in to replace it again, but right now it's kind of stagnant.

[Chasmodes]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

I think Ulva is the best macro for nutrient competition with algae. Your strategy should work. When nutrients are high, it grows spectacularly.

Now that my tank's nutrients are declining, it is less effective. Dinos and cyano have overtaken it. When I removed the large patch of cyano, I noticed there was lots of ulva remaining, so hopefully it will step in to replace it again, but right now it's kind of stagnant.

Interesting. That's probably why my Ulva died off...not enough nutrients and/or too much competition with dinos and cyano.

[vlangel]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

Off topic, but I had another rarely-seen-animal encounter yesterday. Again, it happened while I was cross country skiing at my local hill. It actually happened on the same stretch of trail I saw the moose on! I was starting downhill, when I saw an animal on the trail. When it saw me, it turned and ran, but stayed on the trail! It was a lynx! It moved so easily, it was actually pulling away from me. I skied behind it for a hundred yards or so, before it veered off into the woods. It was spectacular and thrilling, not to just see one, but to actually interact with one! They are very rarely seen. A real privilege!

That is so cool. I am jealous, not that in western PA I could ever hope to see a lynx. Maybe a bobcat but there are no lynx in my neck of the woods.

A week and a half ago Dave and I did see 2 doe in a vicious fight, which was so odd. They were on their hind legs and brutally striking each other with those sharp hooves in the face. They were ramming each other into trees and under brush making a lot of noise. It actually made the fighting that I have seen bucks do while in rut look pretty tame. I can not for the life of me imagine why 2 doe would go at it like that. Another odd thing was a buck was about 30 ft away just watching the 'girl fight'.

[Michael Hoaster]

It was pretty cool, Dawn. It was an experience I won't forget.

That is weird about the deer. I've seen females pick on each other in what looks like a pecking order thing, but I've never seen a full-on fight. Doing it in view of a male sounds like they were fighting over him! Maybe one was challenging to be the dominant female in a harem?

[Michael Hoaster]

Kevin, I think ulva could coexist with cyano and dinos if they didn't coat it. But they do and that prevents light getting to them, and ulva likes lots of light. And there's likely allelopathy, plants' and algae's chemical warfare.

[Michael Hoaster]

My live rock didn't make it this week. Bummer, or blessing in disguise? Anyway, I should have it next week. I ought to take the opportunity to do a massive algae export/3 day blackout/massive water change combo, before I fire up the main circulation pump. Yeah, that's the ticket! Checking gumption levels…

[Michael Hoaster]

Saturday I started the massive algae export/3 day blackout/massive water change combo. I removed algae from the walls, the sand and the plants. I pulled all the macros and cleaned them off, before putting them in a mesh bag, and into QT. I added a bubbler to boost oxygen levels.

With my live rock coming thursday or friday, I should have just enough time to prepare the tank for the increased turbulence turning on the main pump will bring. I'm also taking this time to save up ro/di water for the big water change.

I chose not to go the chemical route at this time, but you never know! It would be awesome if this battle ended the war, but I'm prepared to go again if needed. In past experience, I have found blackouts to be more like 'resets' than complete victories. We'll see what happens this time. I'm hoping a convergence of algae predator population increase, competition for nutrients from new macros and the blackout reset will 'team up' and win.

Stay tuned…

[vlangel]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

Saturday I started the massive algae export/3 day blackout/massive water change combo. I removed algae from the walls, the sand and the plants. I pulled all the macros and cleaned them off, before putting them in a mesh bag, and into QT. I added a bubbler to boost oxygen levels.

With my live rock coming thursday or friday, I should have just enough time to prepare the tank for the increased turbulence turning on the main pump will bring. I'm also taking this time to save up ro/di water for the big water change.

I chose not to go the chemical route at this time, but you never know! It would be awesome if this battle ended the war, but I'm prepared to go again if needed. In past experience, I have found blackouts to be more like 'resets' than complete victories. We'll see what happens this time. I'm hoping a convergence of algae predator population increase, competition for nutrients from new macros and the blackout reset will 'team up' and win.

Stay tuned…

Good luck and hoping for the best!

[Chasmodes]

Good luck with the black out and other tactics. I think your plan sounds logical and should work. If it doesn't, and you try it again, would you try chemicals at the end of the process to finish them off?

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

Kevin, I think ulva could coexist with cyano and dinos if they didn't coat it. But they do and that prevents light getting to them, and ulva likes lots of light. And there's likely allelopathy, plants' and algae's chemical warfare.

I also don't think that my current lighting is adequate. That should all change when i set up the big tank. I have been taking steps to get ready for that, albeit slow. I still am using the tank stand as a work bench for my FW tank and other projects. One project is to build a better workbench, LOL. Anyway, I have a really good light that should do the trick, so I'm not that worried about it. I was on vacation for a week, then was sick for 10 days, and when I was sick, I didn't feel much like working on anything.

[Michael Hoaster]

I've been looking at dart fish lately, focusing mostly on the zebra dart fish, which are natural schoolers. In my opinion, you can really see a difference between fish that form loose groups and true schoolers. They seem to exhibit a need to school. I saw it in the Lookdowns. I'd love to display natural schooling behavior. The vertical bars on the Zebra's sides would likely go well with the grasses too.

Choosing these timid fish would take me in a more placid community direction, so damsels likely wouldn't work. It puts a fork in the road, for fish stocking. It also highlights the need to plan ahead. If I do choose to go the dart fish route, I'll need to fill in the rest of the community differently.

Right now, I have a damsel/semi-aggro fish list figured out. Fleshing out a uber-peaceful community that would work with the darts gives me a whole other direction to look at.

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks Kevin and Dawn!

If I do go the chemiclean route, I'll manually remove algae first, then chemiclean, then blackout, then water change.

Yes, Kevin, once you get your big tank and lights going, you'll have much better luck with plants. That must've been some vacation! Ten days sick, yuck! I'm laid up myself right now, after clipping a stump on my snowboard Saturday. It's the price we pay for playing hard…

[McPuff]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

Thanks Kevin and Dawn!

If I do go the chemiclean route, I'll manually remove algae first, then chemiclean, then blackout, then water change.

Yes, Kevin, once you get your big tank and lights going, you'll have much better luck with plants. That must've been some vacation! Ten days sick, yuck! I'm laid up myself right now, after clipping a stump on my snowboard Saturday. It's the price we pay for playing hard…

Michael, if you use chemiclean there is no need for blackout. It's smart to manually remove what you can, first, then treat. After 2 days, add some carbon as it will REALLY help to get things back to normal. Since you don't use a skimmer (right?) you won't need to worry about the excessive foaming the chemiclean causes. A water change will also be helpful but it doesn't have to be massive. 10-20% along with the carbon.

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks for the input, McPuff! Yep, I'm still skimmer-free. I'm not going the chemiclean route just yet, but I'm willing!

I have found that combining strategies is more effective than doing one at a time. Also, I'm fighting two foes - cyano and dinos. Whether this combo works is anybody's guess. It would be great to get out of this phase without resorting to chemiclean. We'll see how this one goes, and if needed, I'll bite the bullet.

Good call on the charcoal! I put fresh stuff in my canister a few weeks ago. I'll repeat that at the end of this combo, and again, if I do chemiclean.

I just went back and re-read (some of) my old thread, to see how things progressed at this phase of the old tank. Water changes and export helped and chemiclean was maybe the knockout blow. My macros took off at about the same time, so I'm sure that was a factor as well. This time around I'm relying less on water changes and more on manual removal. It just makes sense that you're getting a much more concentrated source of nutrients in the algae, rather than the water. So it's a more focused and efficient process.

We'll see how big the water change ends up being. It now looks like my live rock will be here tomorrow, so I'm running out of time to save up ro/di water. Given the fact that I initially filled the tank with my unfiltered well water, I think a big water change could be helpful. I'll be lucky to get to 20% though.

I haven't peeked into the tank during the blackout, so I don't know how well it's working. I wrapped it with craft paper to really seal out the light. My guess is that most of the algae will be gone. How much and how quickly it comes back is the big question.

I think this could be a crucial time. Here's the sequence again: big algae removal, blackout, big water change. Next, I'll add ten pounds of uncured live rock and replant all the macros I have. The rock will be a nutrient source at first, and hopefully, will fuel macro growth. If so, it may outcompete any algae trying to return. Will it work? I don't know. I wish I had another fast growing macro to help, but I'll make do with what I have.

So I'm basically doing what I did last time in Algaetown. Again I'm holding off on chemiclean, but ready to use it if needed. The biggest difference between this time and last, is that I've got a much more diverse crew in place. Will that make the difference?

[Chasmodes]

Sounds like a good plan to me. Good luck!

I'm definitely paying attention to your progress here. I have similar problems. But, my not purchasing macros is because I'm cheap and wish to collect my own, and it's to daggone cold to go collecting right now. We have CO weather today!