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Old 10/25/2019, 01:19 PM   #1126
Chasmodes
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Very interesting stuff. Fridmani dottybacks are so beautiful too. I certainly understand the limitations of income, or lack thereof.

Is your tank near a window? The reason that I ask is that I wonder how the plants know what season it is. And that leads to my next question, if we control daily the amount of light that we give our plants, will they think it's a particular season? This extends to fish too, assuming temperatures match, that is.


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Old 10/29/2019, 12:11 AM   #1127
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Thanks Kevin. Beautiful fish! I have tried two before and I found the male too aggressive, so that's my biggest concern with a harem of them. If they're too aggressive, it could upset the peace. I'd hope having more of them spreads out the aggression. That's how it worked with seven Royal Grammas in v1.

I have large windows opposite the tank, so they probably do have some influence. Day length and water temperature are the key factors, I think. I would imagine near shore plants like seagrass might get reduced salinity and increased nutrients from spring runoff too.

I would think we could trick plants into 'thinking' it was a particular season, by manipulating day length and temp. Don't they already do this with fish, to encourage them to spawn?

Just back from camping over the weekend, in the Valley of the Gods, Utah. One of the tuxedo damsels was missing, for most of today, then he suddenly appeared this afternoon. He looked a bit beat up. I thought maybe he'd gotten stuck somewhere and then got free. Then I witnessed aggression from the largest one. It was persistent and went on too long, definitely stressing the fish. Not sure what I'm going to do about this. I'll observe for a while and decide. It may be that the largest one has reached maturity, and along with it, grumpiness. Or it could be male to male aggression. This could throw a wrench into my plans. Adjustments may be needed.


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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Old 10/29/2019, 02:34 PM   #1128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster View Post
Thanks Kevin. Beautiful fish! I have tried two before and I found the male too aggressive, so that's my biggest concern with a harem of them. If they're too aggressive, it could upset the peace. I'd hope having more of them spreads out the aggression. That's how it worked with seven Royal Grammas in v1.

I have large windows opposite the tank, so they probably do have some influence. Day length and water temperature are the key factors, I think. I would imagine near shore plants like seagrass might get reduced salinity and increased nutrients from spring runoff too.

I would think we could trick plants into 'thinking' it was a particular season, by manipulating day length and temp. Don't they already do this with fish, to encourage them to spawn?

Just back from camping over the weekend, in the Valley of the Gods, Utah. One of the tuxedo damsels was missing, for most of today, then he suddenly appeared this afternoon. He looked a bit beat up. I thought maybe he'd gotten stuck somewhere and then got free. Then I witnessed aggression from the largest one. It was persistent and went on too long, definitely stressing the fish. Not sure what I'm going to do about this. I'll observe for a while and decide. It may be that the largest one has reached maturity, and along with it, grumpiness. Or it could be male to male aggression. This could throw a wrench into my plans. Adjustments may be needed.
That stinks about the aggression, especially when things were going so well. It figures, there has always got to be one in the bunch! I hope you can come up with a solution. If you can catch the aggressor, could you put it in a breeder net/box kind of like a timeout? That might give the victim a chance to reassert itself and at the same time heal and de-stress.


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Old 10/29/2019, 05:17 PM   #1129
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Thanks Dawn. So true, there's always one!

Still not sure what I'm going to do. I doubt I can catch the perpetrator. But you never know until you try. Catching the victim and allowing it to chill in QT is another option. The remaining two seem to be getting along fine. They may even be starting to spawn, and if the victim is male, that might explain the change of behavior. If so, just keeping the pair might work. Before this, I was planning to add two more. I just double-checked and these fish pair up, rather than harem.

How does this affect my plans? I think a pair may be the upper limit I can keep in this size tank. I doubt there's enough room for another pair or two. So, I may just hold at two, to be safe. If these fish were available as juveniles, you could do a big group until they matured a few years down the road. Every time I ordered them from live aquaria I asked for small ones, but they always send rather big ones.

This should not change my plans to add more neon damsels though.


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Old 10/31/2019, 07:07 PM   #1130
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More fish watching today. The beat up tuxedo damsel has been hiding out the last few days. Today he emerged to feed with the rest, and that went pretty well, so I know he's getting food. He's hanging low, around the patch reef, going into a hole at the first sign of trouble.

Here's what I think is happening: The large male, lets call him Brutus and Pappillon, a female, are pairing up, and the smaller male, Francois, is not welcome anymore. But he is hanging around still, by laying low. I think you remove either male and peace is restored. I wonder what would happen if I added a female. Would two pairs coexist? That would be nice! But I don't have a quarantined female handy, so…

I'll keep watching, but I think it's time to bring out the DIY fish trap. See if I can catch one of the males.

How does this affect my fish stocking plans? Well I guess it's two, rather than five tuxedo damsels. I still plan to add about five more neon damsels. Ten or so will be sweet! Having fewer tuxedos opens up the possibility of something else. I'm still considering a Herald's Angelfish, but there are risks to my plants and sponges. Orchid Dottybacks will be added last, so I need to figure out what else goes in before them. We'll see.


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018

Last edited by Michael Hoaster; 11/01/2019 at 09:33 AM.
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Old 11/02/2019, 05:43 PM   #1131
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I am glad that Francois at least can go somewhere to get some respite from bullying from Brutus. I will be interested to watch how further fish stocking goes.


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Current Tank Info: A 56 gallon (AIO) high nutrient macro algae/coral reef, a 30 gallon seahorse macro algae reef w/ 20 gallon sump and a 2.5 old school dwarf seahorse tank
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Old 11/03/2019, 01:17 AM   #1132
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Thanks Dawn! They seem to be settling into a truce. I've yet to bring out the trap. This new peace gives me hope, but I'll keep watching.


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Old 11/03/2019, 11:42 PM   #1133
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Today I did a decent sized export of ulva. I left some small fragments about, to restart them. I just have to knock it back so it doesn't shade the grasses.

I found some chaeto growing unchecked in the grasses. Hopefully I got all of it. I'm not crazy about it in the display. It's like kudzu!

Hypnea is gradually replacing the brown grasilaria as ground cover between the grass. I think I like it better. The color is more green-to-blue, rather than gold-to-brown.

The two small plugs of turtle weed I planted high on the back wall don't seem to be making it. Maybe it can bounce back. This is turning out to be a challenging plant. The mother plant is doing very well at least. I've just had no luck getting it to spread. I've still got it against the back wall. I may try the push pin trick again, with bigger weed plugs, and maybe lower on the wall. I may have placed the other two too high up, and they were shocked with too much light.

I'm really liking the petticoat algae on the back wall. The more it grows the better it looks. One of these days I'll have good plant coverage on the back wall.

The remaining codium seems to be dying back, while at the same time showing new growth. It looks like the old plant material will die, and the new growth will start a new plant.

Everything seems to be humming along. My mini ecosystem is maturing. My sea cucumber is growing. My fighting conch is happy too. Having the two biggest bottom feeders in great shape are good indicators!


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Old 11/04/2019, 10:54 PM   #1134
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Francois seems like he may be gradually reintegrating, or reaching some kind of truce. For now it doesn't appear to be necessary to remove one of them. We'll see how it goes.


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Old 11/05/2019, 08:53 AM   #1135
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I had plenty to catch up on. I'm glad that your tuxedo damsels are behaving again, and hope it stays that way. The same thing happened with my blennies. But, as long as there are plenty of hiding spots and escape routes, they find a way to coexist. The blennies were less social than your fish though, for sure. Even as juvies, they didn't really like each other. During spawning time, all of the males became aggressive and could hold their own against each other. After the female died, one of the males was the target of bullying, and eventually hid most of the time. I think that maybe having females in the tank, ready to spawn, will get all of the males spunky enough that they can deal with each other. Your original 5 number might still be a good mix.

Sounds like everything else is working out great!


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Old 11/05/2019, 09:28 AM   #1136
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Been a while
The tank looks amazing


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Old 11/05/2019, 10:34 AM   #1137
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Thanks Kevin. Your comparison of my situation to your blennies is very interesting, and helpful. I seem to be having the same experience! Getting to my original number of five would be great. I think in order for that to work I'd need to add two females and no more males.

I'll keep fish watching and figure something out…


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Old 11/05/2019, 10:39 AM   #1138
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Thanks lapin!

And thanks to all of you who have posted here. I try to post on everyone else's threads as well, but I've stopped getting email notifications, so I don't know when anyone I'm following posts anything. I do look around on RC to keep up with everyone, but I'm sure I've missed some. Feel free to post here if you'd like to hear from me.


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Old 11/06/2019, 03:56 PM   #1139
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I appreciate you following my thread as well. I follow your's because it's very useful and interesting for me. We have a lot in common, from the DIY projects to the overall philosophy (some that I still wish to implement).

Plus, if you didn't follow my thread, who would?


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Old 11/07/2019, 12:49 AM   #1140
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Thanks for following my thread Michael. I love following yours because I like the way you approach learning about what might work and how you implement it. And like Kevin, in general I share a similar philosophy about reefing. I don't want it to be so labor intensive that I can't keep up the maintenance so that all the animals can stay healthy. I like nature to do the heavy lifting for me and I try to work with that to get the results I want, and I try never to work against nature.


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And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, ...and God sawthat it was good. Genesis 1:20 - 21

Current Tank Info: A 56 gallon (AIO) high nutrient macro algae/coral reef, a 30 gallon seahorse macro algae reef w/ 20 gallon sump and a 2.5 old school dwarf seahorse tank
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Old 11/07/2019, 08:44 AM   #1141
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Thanks Kevin, thanks Dawn!

I enjoy our little 'community'. We encourage each other and bounce ideas off each other. Even with the lower traffic we see on RC these days, it still works! So thanks for hanging around and lets keep supporting each other, and our weird aquariums!


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Old 11/07/2019, 10:50 PM   #1142
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Three weeks until the one year mark. My ecosystem in a box is doing well.

So overall, I'm happy with the progress. Highlights include beating dinos, and getting my QT game up to snuff. The biggest mistake I've made was letting many manatee grass plants die, from downward salinity drift. I'm nursing them back to recovery, but it's a pretty big bummer.

But the system as a whole is working well, making my job pretty easy. Assembling all of these natural elements to build a functioning ecosystem has been an exciting journey!


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Old 11/08/2019, 10:39 AM   #1143
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Looking great Michael! I've been following along a bit but haven't commented since my tank has taken a slightly different turn now, going for a coral setup in it now instead of the seaweed approach I originally took. I may add another tank to my mix though which will probably reincorporate some of these principles, so I'm still following along.


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Old 11/08/2019, 11:25 AM   #1144
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Thanks for following, lifeoffaith!

I'm curious about your reasoning for abandoning weeds for sticks. No judgement, just curious. Would you care to share?

Reefing has a much better road map for success, than weed-keeping. By now, the important numbers to hit for corals are well known, as well as which devices are needed to hit them. So, I would think it would feel less daunting and mysterious to follow those well-worn steps.

For marine plant growers, there is a lot of conflicting information, and many of the methods and techniques fly in the face of conventional wisdom. I can see how some might shy away from such uncertainty.


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Old 11/08/2019, 02:25 PM   #1145
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Happy almost anniversary of V2! Wow, has it been that long? You've come a long way from the time that you made the decision to redo your tank. It's been a fun journey following your build, for sure.

Community...I like that!


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Old 11/08/2019, 04:33 PM   #1146
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Thanks Kevin! I put the start date in my signature, so it's always handy. Otherwise I have to go back through my thread to find it.

I'm glad you came along on the journey too! It's really interesting, to try this kind of tank once, then do it again with the lessons learned. I learned a lot. So the re-do strategy seems to work. It's impossible to know how everything will go before hand, it's only natural that you'd think of improvements along the way.

We are a community! I like it too.


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Old 11/09/2019, 08:08 PM   #1147
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I can't believe it's been almost a year already! That's amazing. I remember how sad I was to see V1 come down because it seemed like it would be forever for you to get that far again. Now less than a year look how far V2 has come already. I have definitely enjoyed the ride and look forward to watch this tank mature.

I love the community we have in this topic. I have accounts on other forums but this is my favorite.


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Current Tank Info: A 56 gallon (AIO) high nutrient macro algae/coral reef, a 30 gallon seahorse macro algae reef w/ 20 gallon sump and a 2.5 old school dwarf seahorse tank
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Old 11/09/2019, 10:53 PM   #1148
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Thanks Dawn!

I know, right? Already? I remember realizing I needed to tear down v1 and start over. I had several out-of-control pests, including aiptasias, dinos, and several macros I didn't want. And I had a good list of things I wanted to fix.

And here we are. Countless natural processes are now working in concert, forming into a functioning, mini ecosystem. It's been an amazing year. My best first year ever, no doubt. Thanks for riding along with me! We have a quality community here!


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Old 11/11/2019, 08:58 AM   #1149
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I did some work on the tank Sunday. Mostly pruning and exporting. I waited until early this morning to get a few pics, since I clouded up the water in the process. I broke apart the remaining codium, so it will hopefully grow into new plants. The red grapes plants were really overgrown, so they got pruned heavily. A nice, yellow sponge and a 'new' plant were revealed, plus I like to see the rocks of the patch reef. The barnacle shells and a few rocks got repositioned as well. The whole patch reef arrangement has evolved over time, actually getting more compact. I'm really liking it!









Here you can see the Turtle Weed plant bottom right, along with two new transplanted plugs of it on the back wall.



Patch reef. Note the String of Pearls plant in front, doing very well.



This plant in the middle was uncovered by my pruning. I believe it is Halymenia Elongotta. It's similar to Nemastoma, but thinner. I'd love to see this plant grow large!



Obligatory end shot. Still lot's of reds, but a bit less unruly. Also note more life on the back wall.



A yellow sponge was also uncovered.



Mangroves are still growing. Golden brown Sargassum Weed in the foreground. Petticoat, fern caulerpa, and a red moss-like plant, growing on the back wall.


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Old 11/11/2019, 10:41 PM   #1150
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I took some more pics!



String of Pearls and Botryocladia blending together.



Shoal and Manatee Grass with fern and saw blade caulerpa.



Sargassum Weed with Dragon's Tongue (I think). I moved their rock to optimize their placement in the light. I'd really like to see these two get bigger too.



The latest arrangement of the patch reef. It feels natural to me.



Another shot of the Sargassum Weed and Dragon's Tongue, and the live rock beneath.



Looking down on the patch reef.



Fun fish shot.



I'm really enjoying the mangroves! One of the things that bugged me about my fake mangrove was that it was too big. I'm digging the smaller proportions of the real deals. Of course they'll grow, if they survive. I'm rootin' for 'em!



Coralline algae on the mangroves.


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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