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Unread 09/12/2016, 10:21 AM   #1
jharding08
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Question Durso + Sump GPH Capacity

I have a 180 gallon Vision tank with a back center overflow. Overflow has one 1.5" drain and 2 x 3/4" returns.



I plumbed the drain with a durso pipe (2 x 90 elbows) and a 1/4" hole on the top. I'm not sure of the capacity of the overflow teeth, should be able to handle my pump.

I run a waveline DC6000 variable speed DC return pump. It sits in a custom sump (36"x20"x16") with a drain section that overflows into a filter sock chamber



I currently have the 1.5" drain submerged about 2" in the drain chamber. I am using flex pvc with pvc elbows (two 90s to get from bulkhead to drain chamber).

When I have the Waveline DC6000 at the lowest setting, everything run smoothly. The water flows quietly into the drain chamber and up over into the filter socks.

Once I up the return pump GPH, it starts to get noisy, the water flowing into the drain chamber comes rushing up over the weir into the return chamber. Its noisy and is going to create a ton of salt creep.

The drain chamber is just big enough for the 1.5" flex PVC to sit in the drain, not sure if I shouldve made it bigger to accomodate a larger pump. On my last tank, a 120 that used this same sump, I had a bean animal overflow that I could get the return pump up higher GPH without it splashing over uncontrollably.

For a single 1.5" drain on this sump, what can I do to get more GPH out of my return pump and still keep the drain chamber controlled?

Thanks


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Unread 09/12/2016, 10:29 AM   #2
mcgyvr
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There is very little you can do..
But simply changing to a durso may help "some"..
https://www.dursostandpipes.com/

Other than that your are SOL..
Welcome to the HUGE negatives of a single drain pipe..


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Unread 09/12/2016, 10:53 AM   #3
jharding08
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I am doing a durso, but with just two 90s creating an upside down "U". Would the durso with the T be better instead?




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Last edited by jharding08; 09/12/2016 at 11:16 AM.
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Unread 09/12/2016, 11:54 AM   #4
jharding08
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The noise in the overflow with the durso is minimal, its the splashing coming out of the drain in the sump


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Unread 09/12/2016, 12:15 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jharding08 View Post
The noise in the overflow with the durso is minimal, its the splashing coming out of the drain in the sump
Welcome to an inferior drain system.. SOL...
Reduce flow is now your only real option..

Its sucking down air and those air bubbles are rising to the surface and making noise..

reduce flow and less bubbles will be introduced..


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Unread 09/12/2016, 12:51 PM   #6
jharding08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgyvr View Post
Welcome to an inferior drain system.. SOL...
Reduce flow is now your only real option..

Its sucking down air and those air bubbles are rising to the surface and making noise..

reduce flow and less bubbles will be introduced..
I dont really have options for a better drain with the overflow and the holes drilled in the tank, do I?


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Unread 09/12/2016, 12:56 PM   #7
hkgar
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Is your return pipe below the water level in the sump?


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180 gallon, 40 gallon sump, 3 250 W MH + 4 80W ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Aquamaxx T-3 CaRx

Current Tank Info: A 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Red Head Salon, Yellow/Purple, McMaster Fairy, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, & Atlantic Blue Tangs, 2 Percula Clown, 3 PJ and 1 Banggai Cardinalfish , Swallowtail, Bellus and Coral Beauty Angels
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Unread 09/12/2016, 01:04 PM   #8
jharding08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkgar View Post
Is your return pipe below the water level in the sump?
Yes, about 2 inches


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Unread 09/12/2016, 01:28 PM   #9
nereefpat
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Just thinking out loud here...

What about running the two 3/4 pipes at syphon, the 1.5" for emergency drain, then run returns over the top?

Two 3/4" gravity drains won't move as much water as a 1.5" gravity. But at full syphon they probably could, and there wouldn't be the noise.

You would want to play around with that DC pump and the 1.5" emergency drain to make sure it can handle the flow, ignoring the noise.


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Unread 09/12/2016, 02:42 PM   #10
jharding08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nereefpat View Post
Just thinking out loud here...

What about running the two 3/4 pipes at syphon, the 1.5" for emergency drain, then run returns over the top?

Two 3/4" gravity drains won't move as much water as a 1.5" gravity. But at full syphon they probably could, and there wouldn't be the noise.

You would want to play around with that DC pump and the 1.5" emergency drain to make sure it can handle the flow, ignoring the noise.
Or the two 3/4" at siphon and the 1.5" with the vent, like bean animal? I am also thinking how to run antisiphon holes in the returns as well. Right now I have them and the tunzes flow colliding with each other


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Last edited by jharding08; 09/12/2016 at 02:47 PM.
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Unread 09/12/2016, 03:47 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jharding08 View Post
I dont really have options for a better drain with the overflow and the holes drilled in the tank, do I?
Always options..
Is tank populated yet?

Is bottom glass tempered?
How about back glass?
Wanna drill some glass?
Do you mind over the top returns? (or more drilling)


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Unread 09/13/2016, 10:55 AM   #12
jharding08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgyvr View Post
Always options..
Is tank populated yet?

Is bottom glass tempered?
How about back glass?
Wanna drill some glass?
Do you mind over the top returns? (or more drilling)
Tank is fully stocked. Had to move and it replaced my old 120g.

I dont mind running the returns over the back, if it provides more capacity for the drain(s)


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Unread 09/13/2016, 12:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jharding08 View Post
Tank is fully stocked. Had to move and it replaced my old 120g.

I dont mind running the returns over the back, if it provides more capacity for the drain(s)

Well... I'd start planning on enlarging those 3/4" bulkhead holes and putting in a bean setup..

Maybe try it first on the 3/4" bulkheads and see how it goes and adapt from there..


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Unread 09/13/2016, 02:50 PM   #14
jharding08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgyvr View Post
Well... I'd start planning on enlarging those 3/4" bulkhead holes and putting in a bean setup..

Maybe try it first on the 3/4" bulkheads and see how it goes and adapt from there..
Would I do 1.5" siphon and 3/4" open channel on one and emergency on other? That way I could adjust the full siphon to just enough for the 3/4" to handle


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Unread 09/13/2016, 03:40 PM   #15
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Someone has to have had experience with this before. Any ideas?


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Unread 09/13/2016, 03:49 PM   #16
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Drill all holes to use the same 1.5" bulkhead.. Do bean..
or open to 1.25" bulkheads for the 2 smaller holes and use the existing 1.5 for an emergency..
Or try using the 2 x 3/4 for the open/siphon and the 1.5 for emergency.. It might not be that bad with that pump.. Valve would probably be full open on the full siphon


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Unread 09/13/2016, 04:04 PM   #17
jharding08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgyvr View Post
Drill all holes to use the same 1.5" bulkhead.. Do bean..
or open to 1.25" bulkheads for the 2 smaller holes and use the existing 1.5 for an emergency..
Or try using the 2 x 3/4 for the open/siphon and the 1.5 for emergency.. It might not be that bad with that pump.. Valve would probably be full open on the full siphon
Could I upsize to 1" for the durso part of the 3/4" drains? I know in the durso instructions, it says to upsize to 1 1/4 for a 1" bulkhead

Not sure I could fit two 1" dursos and the 1.5" emergency (open top) in that small overflow


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Unread 09/13/2016, 04:08 PM   #18
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Returns over the side could fix my anti siphon issues with the current return lines too. They are too far submerged in the water, so when the power goes off or feed, they suck so much water into the sump, even if they are pointed almost straight up.

What should I do with the return lines coming out of the overflow? Just plug them off at the bulkhead?

Or I could run the return lines over the back and still use them through the overflow, but that doesnt fix my siphon issue


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Unread 09/13/2016, 04:14 PM   #19
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ok..Lets try this again..
IF I was you......
I would open up the 2 x 3/4" returns to use 1" bulkheads and make those into the open and full channels on the bean animal drain system.. I would just use the larger existing one as the emergency.. ( so all 3 current holes in the overflow are used.. 2 smaller holes are upsized and one is left alone)

Then I would do 2 x 1" over the back return pipes with a couple anti-siphon drilled holes right under the water level on those 2.


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Unread 09/13/2016, 04:39 PM   #20
jharding08
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I just can't drill the tank. I just got it up and running after a move and dont even want to think about a project that big, especially with a fully stocked tank.

I'll do as much as I can with the way it is, I can redo plumbing, just cant drill a glass tank full of water.

I'll take small improvements now and maybe plan out a larger upgrade to the tank later.


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Unread 09/14/2016, 05:13 AM   #21
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Well then... Learn to live with the noise..


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Unread 09/14/2016, 08:24 AM   #22
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Mgyvr, can he enlarge the 3/4 holes on the bottom without cracking the tank? I would think that the bottom would be tempered after the original holes were drilled.

The back could be drilled inside the overflow, correct?

Or what are your thoughts on two 3/4 syphons and one large emergency drain? (Oops, I see you gave your opinion there)


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Unread 09/14/2016, 09:54 AM   #23
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Drilling a tank after being set up is iffy.
Heres what I did on my first tank. I had a durso with 1 1" standpiupe and 1 3/4 return.
Research herbie drain system. Basically same a a bean but minus the secondary drain. Use 1 1/2 materials for the for the main siphon drain. add a gate valve ( not a ball valve) to this to tune the flow during the siphon. use the 3/4 line for emergency drain or use 1 for emergency and one as part of your return system. I would plumb those in 1" pipe. It will restrict flow some with your current bulkheads, but that wont matter much.
I drained miune straight to the sump with very little turns. No horizontal sections either for the siphon. Do not restrict the emergency at all. When tuning, set the return pump flow to not exceed what you EMERGENCY drain will handle. you can even use the 2nd 3/4 for another level of protection. This setup will be much safer for you.


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Unread 09/14/2016, 10:01 AM   #24
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and not to mention dead silent. I ran this way for several years with no issues at all. I also made a screen for the main standpipe. You are always at risk for algae, snails or livestock getting in the overflow. I once lost a clownfish. Looked for him all day, and assumed he had jumped. I noticed my water level in my overflow was highher than normal. I opened the main gatevalve and the clown fish flushed out into my sump. So it would be good to have a screen to prevent something like this. If set up right, it will restart everytime with no issues.


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Unread 09/14/2016, 04:39 PM   #25
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If the problem is where the drain enters the sump, enclose it in a half-submerged container. Not sure what you can enclose it with if only two inches wide but the general idea is to let the bubbles come up inside a container instead of into open air. The container will need a hole for the drain pipe plus an air hole. Most of the spray wets the inside of the container. Also if your skimmer has an intake hose, route it to where the bubbles come up.


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