Caribbean Biotope Seagrass Tank

[nawilson89]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

Quick update on the royal gramma issue. It appears that one has turned into a male, and is now challenging the previously only male. They mostly avoid each other, but occasionally they get after each other. From what I've read this is a deadly combination, but, so far, mine haven't gotten too rough. So I wonder if it will get worse and worse, or they will reach some kind of truce. I'll keep an eye on them, but obviously I can't watch all day. I want to call it before someone gets hurt/killed.

I would hope with that much space in the tank they could make a truce. Heck, even Betta fish with enough space and enough breaks in Line of Sight they can live with multiple males in a tank. I've seen three in a 75g for years without death or serious injury.

[Michael Hoaster]

That's kind of what I was thinking, nawilson89. So far, their squabbles have been no more serious than any of the females', so it doesn't seem to be a problem.

But, will it escalate? Once things get out of hand, it could be too late. So I'd rather remove one before that, but it's so freaking cool having seven of them!

I guess the ideal scenario for removing one would be for it to be cowering in an upper corner of the tank, so I could easily net it out. Otherwise, it's the trap. I'll keep watching and waiting…

[Michael Hoaster]

It's fascinating, delegating landscaping to a fish. Mr Zippy has altered the macro algae coverage immensely. He is doing what I could never do - reduce the caulerpa biomass consistently, over time. The back wall had as much as 2/3 coverage, before Zippy. Now it has about 1/3 coverage. The left half of the DSB planter rocks are now only sparcely covered with macros. He's had the least effect on the right end. I see him graze there but these plants are outpacing his grazing, for now.

The concept of growing an abundant food source in an aquarium, and adding a consumer for it, is super neato. I was thinking about other possibilities, besides plants/herbivores. Looking at caribbean butterfly fish gave me an idea. Grow a bunch of recordia and zoas. They both tend to overgrow. Butterflies eat them. Shazam! How about xenia? What eats that? Star polyps, shrooms, maybe even sponges! Anytime we can provide a built-in natural food source for our charges, we are providing a comfy home for them. And if we do it right, our jobs are made easier.

[ichthyogeek]

Hmm...except how will you achieve equilibrium within the system? If Mr. Zippy's still young and has room to grow, and has already managed to cut the biomass in half, then how will you compensate for his insatiable appetite later on when he's all blue? The same applies for all fish really. How many of X food will you need to feed one fish?

[Michael Hoaster]

Mmhmm. I'm attempting to achieve equilibrium by dosing nitrate 'nstuff, to accelerate the growth rates of all plants in the system. It's working pretty well, but I agree, this won't last forever. It's been a fun experiment. His effect on the tank has been amazing! If my tank isn't big enough, I wonder what size tank it would require for tang/macro equilibrium. I also wonder, what if my tank had been more overgrown when Zippy arrived, instead of freshly pruned?

So, for now, I am just enjoying watching him eat naturally, and not having to prepare herbivore food, for as long as it lasts. My guess is a year plus. Hopefully, I will have gotten him to eat introduced foods by the time he finishes off the caulerpa.

I could even remove him, if he becomes too devastating to the overall system. I could add another one later, or, there are a couple other caribbean herbivores I wouldn't mind trying. The reason I got him in the first place, was to reduce caulerpa biomass, which he's done. I hope that reducing caulerpa biomass will allow the seagrasses to get more nutrients from the water column. So, this is really for the benefit of the manatee grass, my pivotal species. Ultimately, overall system health and balance are most important, so we'll see!

Thanks, icthyogeek, for the great question!

[ichthyogeek]

I thought your initial reason was because you wanted to see a yellow juvenile turn blue eventually?

What other types of herbivores are you considering? All the ones that are coming to mind are invertebrates, which might not be able to keep up with macro growth. Also, are you factoring in the possible macro nests the grammas will make when breeding?

[Michael Hoaster]

No. I did not buy the fish for its pretty color. I needed an herbivore to reduce caulerpa biomass. It's a tang I've had my eye on for a while, and caribbean biotope correct.

I'm looking at the green blotch parrot, and the doctor fish, as possible alternatives. With the parrots, you can do more than one, so there's the spawning option.

I have succeeded in accelerating the caulerpa's growth, so it could last longer than I thought. I of course will make adjustments, as things progress. I truly enjoy the journey!

[Xeniaamore]

I made some major changes to my seagrass tank yesterday. I added about 3 inches of reef sand where I previously used only natural substrate. This buried about 30% of the ramets. Hopefully they live. I also dramatically increased the flow with a very strong power head. I hate using cyanobacteria remover BC I lose all the natural goodness of the substrate. That is my reason for more flow; a natural remedy to cyano.
Speaking of things that are natural, seagrass tanks are not. They are a constant juggle of biotic and abiotic factors that are so far removed from nature that it is a struggle to keep species that normally live together in the same tank. I commend you for your success

[sam.basye]

I was showing my wife Zippy's kind after looking at my screensaver (the atlantic blue tang I took a pic of on our honeymoon) and it led me to your biotope thread to show her Zippy. She said I don't need it... like everything else. lol

This was her reaction to a FTS on here:


My wife "That's his tank??"
Me "Yeah."
My wife "Looks like nature."
Me "That was the goal."
My wife "I guess he achieved it."


Haha, she's right, kudos Michael!

[Michael Hoaster]

Nice to hear from you again, Xeniaamore! Thanks for the compliment!

Can you explain what you mean, regarding reef sand v natural substrate? Are you referring to calcerous v silica sand?

I had a brutal, three month struggle with cyanobacteria. I finally gave in and got some Chemiclean. I combined that with four day black outs and finally escaped its slimy grip. I don't miss those days much! Every time I carefully removed cyano from my grasses, they came uprooted-far from ideal!

I hope your increased flow will help. It should, but I doubt it will eradicate it. Please keep us informed. Everybody likes to hear an overcoming cyano success story!

After hearing conflicting info on whether or not to grow macros in a seagrass tank, I think I have settled on it being a good thing. With all the dosing, etcetera I do to to facilitate seagrass growth, it's nice to know there is a buffer of sorts, ready to suck up the accesses. Sure they compete, but they also help prevent less desirable micro algae from moving in.

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks, Sam. That's awesome to hear! Tell your wife I said thank you. I consider her comments the ultimate compliment!

[Michael Hoaster]

[Portsie]

Wow! Awesome man, just awesome. I love the first picture, really puts the scale of the tank into perspective. Looking forward to your next update!

[cksss]

Beautiful photos! I really like how the grapes are encrusting onto the fake root

[Xeniaamore]

Natural vs reef sand in this case simply meant the marine mud from which I dug the plants out of versus store bought live sand which I think came from Fiji

[Michael Hoaster]

One more:



I wanted to comment on some of the pics, but I didn't have time, at the time. But now I do!

Thanks, Portsie. I'm glad you liked the full tank shot. Unfortunately there were some reflections, but it's not too bad I guess.

Thank you, cksss. I wish there was more encrusting going on, with the fake root. I've been looking into other encrusting stuff for it. In some places, the caulerpa is expanding its coverage, while contracting in others, via Zippy's nibblings.

And thanks, Xeniaamore, for your explanation. I'm jealous of your being able to get them with their dirt!

In the FTSs, you can see how the caulerpa is growing very well, in the middle, bottom of the tank, but there is less coverage on the back wall, where Zippy has put most of his effort. There's still a very thick (6"+) stand around the top. So, there is still a lot of caulerpa.

On the seagrass shots, you can see that there are more taller manatee grass plants across the width of the DSB. I'm still planning on trading in the turtle grass plants for more manatee grass. Probably the first week in April. I am both looking forward to, and dreading it!

In some the shots of Zippy, you can see hints of pattern in his coloring.

[Michael Hoaster]

I started a new CO2 bottle today. I'll try to get an accurate time of use this time.

[sam.basye]

I was thinking of CO² for the next tank.. I was thinking I could be even lazier, setting up something like your canister reactor, as I completely suck about doing water changes, additives, and testing.. Lol

Tank is looking great!
Only thing that could make it better is snorkeling and seeing the same thing!

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks, Sam. There's always a lazier way to do something. That is what I seek. I'd call it my quest, but that sounds like a lot of work!

You might be interested to hear I'm seriously considering breaking out my old 2 liter soda bottle trap tomorrow. The two males are still at it. It never really gets out of hand, but they just can't seem to let it go. I'm less concerned for their safety than the five other horny females, who seem to be losing patience. Spawning seems unlikely while this feud goes on. So, with a heavy heart I may have to reduce their number to 6. Of course, that's assuming I'm actually able to trap one of them. But, the trap has worked before. Who knows, it may even inspire you to make one! Just in case…

[sam.basye]

You know the, take one gramma out, put 8 more back in theory?
Lol I want more grammas I there.
How do you differentiate the sexes?

Do post pics of the bottle trap. You do know it's not nearly as fun baiting the trap and pulling the fish out. You don't get too cuss, break things, and spend half the day telling the fish your putting them up for adoption when you finally catch them. Haha

Oh and I was thinking of re-foaming the top of my wall at the overflow where the eggcrate is showing. Nervous about nuking the tank with it or something..

[Michael Hoaster]

Adding eight back in sounds awesome-but kinda disastrous! With grammas, and several other fishes, immature fish all start as female. And they gather into harems, where the largest female turns into a male. So, if you buy, say five smalls and one large fish, you're (almost) guaranteed to get five females and one male. In my situation, the largest of the small ones turned out to be male, and I have a feud. So it's not so much as sexing them, as playing the percentages and hoping!

I'll get some pics of the trap.

Maybe you could run your water level low for a few days, while you work on your wall. I remember, awhile back, doing that, so I could drill my tank. I just floated a cookie sheet under the drill sites!

[Michael Hoaster]

Le Trappe:

Pretty simple construction.



Baited and lowered into place, where the boys hang out. This could take awhile!

[Michael Hoaster]

Two days later, and still no takers on the trap. I'm not feeding the tank, so I'm hoping hunger will motivate them. Patience.

There's no way I could net one of them out. The only other method I can think of would be to fish one out, with a baited hook and line. Not ideal but doable. Fishing in my own aquarium is a surreal experience!

[sam.basye]

I vote the fishing route! I've always wanted to catch one of my own fish.. Lol


How much lighting do seagrasses, generally speaking, require?

[Michael Hoaster]

Well, I've removed the trap, empty-handed. I had it in there for two days. The two males have settled down. They're trying to coexist. Maybe they can.

Generally, I'd say seagrass need light levels similar to or brighter than reef lighting, with a more daylight color. They mostly live in shallow water.

Are you thinking of adding some to your tank? That might be cool!