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Unread 05/14/2012, 02:44 PM   #1676
newyorksteelo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david00061 View Post
IMO I think pumps need to turn up for feed mode. I want the food to go everywhere. Fish are fast, corals like to eat too
I strongly agree with you here David. Strong water flow during feedings is extremely important in order to deliver food to the polyp extension of all corals, especially SPS's. However, there are times where the feed mode can be useful, such as when trying to restore a unhealthy coral back to heath. These corals need to be target feed and allowed to consume the food with slow water movement.

I do have a concern with the syncing of the Radions and Vortech Pump. Correct me if I am wrong here, but it appears to me that when we sync them together, the pumps will slow down during feed mode, and slow down during night mode with no ability to customize this. In example, I would like to use the feed mode from time to time, but do not want the night mode to slow down the flow. Is there a way to sync the pumps without necessarily using the night mode?


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Unread 05/14/2012, 02:50 PM   #1677
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Could anyone tell me how many Radion´s would i need on a 80 by 28 tank ? Depth is 23 if it changes anything.

Thanks


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Unread 05/14/2012, 03:08 PM   #1678
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Flow

Quote:
Originally Posted by newyorksteelo View Post
I strongly agree with you here David. Strong water flow during feedings is extremely important in order to deliver food to the polyp extension of all corals, especially SPS's. However, there are times where the feed mode can be useful, such as when trying to restore a unhealthy coral back to heath. These corals need to be target feed and allowed to consume the food with slow water movement.

I do have a concern with the syncing of the Radions and Vortech Pump. Correct me if I am wrong here, but it appears to me that when we sync them together, the pumps will slow down during feed mode, and slow down during night mode with no ability to customize this. In example, I would like to use the feed mode from time to time, but do not want the night mode to slow down the flow. Is there a way to sync the pumps without necessarily using the night mode?
Ive been wondering this myself Newyorksteelo because i was always under the impression that corals feed "more" during the night hense the increase in polyp extension so wouldnt we want more flow at night to deliver foods to corals vs less flow (which is what night mode synching does ). A theory i have is mayb in the ocean the current drops during the night slowing down flow thru out all the reefs which in turn triggers a response in the coral for more feeding to occur? I dont really see an advantage for slowing down the flow during the night if anything i think we should be increasing it.


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Unread 05/14/2012, 04:00 PM   #1679
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If you use an Apex and WXM module I think you can do just about anything you want. You could do Reef Crest in the AM, NTM at lunchtime, slow it down a bit at night and have multiple feed modes that run whatever program you want.


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Unread 05/14/2012, 04:49 PM   #1680
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Originally Posted by Breakbeats2334 View Post
Ive been wondering this myself Newyorksteelo because i was always under the impression that corals feed "more" during the night hense the increase in polyp extension so wouldnt we want more flow at night to deliver foods to corals vs less flow (which is what night mode synching does ). A theory i have is mayb in the ocean the current drops during the night slowing down flow thru out all the reefs which in turn triggers a response in the coral for more feeding to occur? I dont really see an advantage for slowing down the flow during the night if anything i think we should be increasing it.
Yes and no @ Breakbeats. During the day, Corals in nature are easily subjected to predators picking at the polyps, and the same predatory behavior applies to the plankton that feed the corals. This is why at night, the plankton come out and have a party (free of predators), and the polyps extend further to catch and feed on this very plankton. The flow of water in nature during the night hours can be even stronger, and as a matter of fact, the stronger the water movement, the better the polyp extension especially in SPS corals.

I think the night mode feature is more for the hobbyist to have the ability to control the pumps as they see fit, rather than actually being beneficial to the system. Not only does strong water movement during night help feed the corals as you stated, most of the gas exchange and breakdown of waste in a reef occurs during the night, so equal or stronger water movement to that of the day is a must IMO.

I would like to be able to sync the fixtures and pump together, so that i can use the feed mode if need be, but I would also like to be able to disable the night mode instead of having it turn on automatically. If I can just click a little box in the software that says "Don't use the Night Mode", I would be content. Or even better, allow me to either raise or lower the flow in night mode, as opposed to just lowering the flow by 50%. Just a thought.

Right now as we speak, I do not sync the pumps with the fixture for this reason.



Last edited by newyorksteelo; 05/14/2012 at 05:06 PM.
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Unread 05/15/2012, 05:19 AM   #1681
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I have taken my lights way up. 100% with all colors for 6 hours. Lights have been running on this schedule for a few months. I have had great growth and color with my Acros.
My acros have grown a whole lot in 5 months.
I am going to start backing my time down to around 4 hours a day and after that i am going to get my high intensity down to about 75%.
The reason behind this light change is i want a mixed reef. Right now i have to keep all my Chalice's and other LPS corals tucked back in the shade and I can't really enjoy them.
I really think these lights will do both give my SPS growth and color and not bleach my LPS
I have all ready seen fantastic color and growth with my Acros
I will take a month to get my lights turned down.
Later this week I will post a few pics of my tank.


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Unread 05/15/2012, 07:17 AM   #1682
newyorksteelo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david00061 View Post
I have taken my lights way up. 100% with all colors for 6 hours. Lights have been running on this schedule for a few months. I have had great growth and color with my Acros.
My acros have grown a whole lot in 5 months.
I am going to start backing my time down to around 4 hours a day and after that i am going to get my high intensity down to about 75%.
The reason behind this light change is i want a mixed reef. Right now i have to keep all my Chalice's and other LPS corals tucked back in the shade and I can't really enjoy them.
I really think these lights will do both give my SPS growth and color and not bleach my LPS
I have all ready seen fantastic color and growth with my Acros
I will take a month to get my lights turned down.
Later this week I will post a few pics of my tank.
Sounds like you haven't had much success with 100% intensity on your LPS corals? Are they bleaching on you? I ask because just this week I bumped mines up to 100% for 7 hours straight. My LPS seem to be doing OK but it's too early to tell.


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Unread 05/15/2012, 07:44 AM   #1683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newyorksteelo View Post
Yes and no @ Breakbeats. During the day, Corals in nature are easily subjected to predators picking at the polyps, and the same predatory behavior applies to the plankton that feed the corals. This is why at night, the plankton come out and have a party (free of predators), and the polyps extend further to catch and feed on this very plankton. The flow of water in nature during the night hours can be even stronger, and as a matter of fact, the stronger the water movement, the better the polyp extension especially in SPS corals.

I think the night mode feature is more for the hobbyist to have the ability to control the pumps as they see fit, rather than actually being beneficial to the system. Not only does strong water movement during night help feed the corals as you stated, most of the gas exchange and breakdown of waste in a reef occurs during the night, so equal or stronger water movement to that of the day is a must IMO.

I would like to be able to sync the fixtures and pump together, so that i can use the feed mode if need be, but I would also like to be able to disable the night mode instead of having it turn on automatically. If I can just click a little box in the software that says "Don't use the Night Mode", I would be content. Or even better, allow me to either raise or lower the flow in night mode, as opposed to just lowering the flow by 50%. Just a thought.

Right now as we speak, I do not sync the pumps with the fixture for this reason.

Part of your statement is incorrect. The ocean does in fact slow down at night. If it didn't, it would eventually look like one large wave moving around the world with a harmonious current. But, it doesn't do that. As the moon's gravitational pull moves over the night sky, it pulls the water more "upward" than it does during the day. This additional force creates a less turbulent time over the ocean at night. and what creates the turbulent action that creates the tides by day break when the back end of the last set catches up to the new day.

The polyps of corals have grown accustomed to this and know that there is more food in the water column, so they extend to feed. Obviously there are less predators, but a slower water motion makes it much easier to feed. Assuming one has healthy corals, put your Vortech pumps on full blast 15 minutes before lights out and then put them in sleep mode 15 minutes afterward. You'll see some awesome polyp extension.

Take a stroll on a beach at night or before daybreak and see how gently and clean the waves roll in. By 8:30/9:00 in the morning all is restored and the normal thrashing resumes. The difference is quite audibly noticeable. As a lifelong surfer it's just something we've come to know. This of course is not taking into account the presence of a storm, but I trust you understand.


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Unread 05/15/2012, 10:10 AM   #1684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex T. View Post
Part of your statement is incorrect. The ocean does in fact slow down at night. If it didn't, it would eventually look like one large wave moving around the world with a harmonious current. But, it doesn't do that. As the moon's gravitational pull moves over the night sky, it pulls the water more "upward" than it does during the day. This additional force creates a less turbulent time over the ocean at night. and what creates the turbulent action that creates the tides by day break when the back end of the last set catches up to the new day.

The polyps of corals have grown accustomed to this and know that there is more food in the water column, so they extend to feed. Obviously there are less predators, but a slower water motion makes it much easier to feed. Assuming one has healthy corals, put your Vortech pumps on full blast 15 minutes before lights out and then put them in sleep mode 15 minutes afterward. You'll see some awesome polyp extension.

Take a stroll on a beach at night or before daybreak and see how gently and clean the waves roll in. By 8:30/9:00 in the morning all is restored and the normal thrashing resumes. The difference is quite audibly noticeable. As a lifelong surfer it's just something we've come to know. This of course is not taking into account the presence of a storm, but I trust you understand.
Hi Alex. Thanks for the input and great explanation, but I am not quite sure how any of my statements were incorrect. If you re-read my post, I stated that "the flow of water in nature during the night hours can be even stronger". The key word here is "can", so taking into consideration the constant ever changing weather conditions of nature (as you stated), to dismiss this would be incorrect, but I do understand where you are coming from

Also, in response to Breakbeat's question where he believes in theory that "slower water movement causes more polyp extension", and in response to you stating that "slower water motion makes it much easier for the corals to feed", both statements are questionable when were talking about SPS corals.

In example. Over the years I've found that the best polyp extension of these corals (night and day) is achieved by the absence of predators, strong water movement, and the presence of plankton/food in the water column. There are times when I would not feed my reefs for weeks at a time and the corals would actually cease to extend their polyps at night, only to regain that polyp extension once the food was continuously introduced again. Then there were times when I would slow down my flow just to see how the reef would react in the months to come and noticed my SPS corals weren't extending their polyps as much, only to extend them better when the flow was increased again. And then there were times when i would add for example a Yellow Dwarf Angel which is a known predator and the polyps would never come out, only to return again once the predator was removed.

Now, considering that the polyp extension is often greater at night due to less predators and a higher abundance of food, and also considering my statements about gas exchange and breakdown of waste occurring mostly during the night, I believe that equal to or stronger flow should be provided during the night for our enclosed reefs to fair better IMO


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Unread 05/15/2012, 11:18 AM   #1685
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Originally Posted by newyorksteelo View Post
Hi Alex. Thanks for the input and great explanation, but I am not quite sure how any of my statements were incorrect. If you re-read my post, I stated that "the flow of water in nature during the night hours can be even stronger". The key word here is "can", so taking into consideration the constant ever changing weather conditions of nature (as you stated), to dismiss this would be incorrect, but I do understand where you are coming from

Also, in response to Breakbeat's question where he believes in theory that "slower water movement causes more polyp extension", and in response to you stating that "slower water motion makes it much easier for the corals to feed", both statements are questionable when were talking about SPS corals.

In example. Over the years I've found that the best polyp extension of these corals (night and day) is achieved by the absence of predators, strong water movement, and the presence of plankton/food in the water column. There are times when I would not feed my reefs for weeks at a time and the corals would actually cease to extend their polyps at night, only to regain that polyp extension once the food was continuously introduced again. Then there were times when I would slow down my flow just to see how the reef would react in the months to come and noticed my SPS corals weren't extending their polyps as much, only to extend them better when the flow was increased again. And then there were times when i would add for example a Yellow Dwarf Angel which is a known predator and the polyps would never come out, only to return again once the predator was removed.

Now, considering that the polyp extension is often greater at night due to less predators and a higher abundance of food, and also considering my statements about gas exchange and breakdown of waste occurring mostly during the night, I believe that equal to or stronger flow should be provided during the night for our enclosed reefs to fair better IMO
You're misunderstanding me. The ocean is VERY RARELY more turbulent at night. Saying that it "can be turbulent" is obvious. While it is true that SPS corals require strong flow, they are no different than any other animal on Earth and in its' waters. They feed best when the water movement slows down and their polyps have time for prey capture. It's hard for us to eat outside in a strong wind too.

Try it in your own tank. Fifteen minutes after lights out, put your Vortech pumps on "Sleep Mode" and wait another 10 minutes and see for yourself.I know you like experiments . You have nothing to lose at all. If it doesn't work for you, go back to what you're doing. I'm confident that you'll like what you see after a couple of weeks. My new tank (in my avatar) just came out of its' cycle, so I'm not adding any corals to this system for a little bit. I will post some polyp extension photographs on my build thread after lights out and Sleep Mode on my Vortechs. If my past experience and results are consistent, every acro in my tank will look like a miniature, hairy version of Cousin "It" from the Aadams Family. Before I started doing this, my night time polyp extension was just a little better than daytime, but nothing like what I experienced with "Sleep Mode".

If done repeatedly, you'll notice a pattern of polyp extension increasing a tad better than what you have now. Start feeding them at that time and you'll see what I'm talking about. I've been to a couple of frag farming facilities and spoke with many of the caretakers at length about this very issue. Many of them feed before they leave for the night, slow down the pumps and unplug their skimmers. This nutrient loading helps with not just the coloration of the corals, but increased growth rates of their ready to sell frags. I was amazed at how much food they showed me was going into their farm tanks every night. Granted, we cannot feed our closed systems as well as they do because we also feed fish that aid in polluting the water, so coral foods need to be used sparingly.

It's not at all as "questionable" as you state. There are many who do this. I realize there are many who don't as well.


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Unread 05/15/2012, 11:45 AM   #1686
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How do you disable the buttons on the light?


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Unread 05/15/2012, 12:00 PM   #1687
newyorksteelo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex T. View Post
You're misunderstanding me. The ocean is VERY RARELY more turbulent at night. Saying that it "can be turbulent" is obvious. While it is true that SPS corals require strong flow, they are no different than any other animal on Earth and in its' waters. They feed best when the water movement slows down and their polyps have time for prey capture. It's hard for us to eat outside in a strong wind too.

Try it in your own tank. Fifteen minutes after lights out, put your Vortech pumps on "Sleep Mode" and wait another 10 minutes and see for yourself.I know you like experiments . You have nothing to lose at all. If it doesn't work for you, go back to what you're doing. I'm confident that you'll like what you see after a couple of weeks. My new tank (in my avatar) just came out of its' cycle, so I'm not adding any corals to this system for a little bit. I will post some polyp extension photographs on my build thread after lights out and Sleep Mode on my Vortechs. If my past experience and results are consistent, every acro in my tank will look like a miniature, hairy version of Cousin "It" from the Aadams Family. Before I started doing this, my night time polyp extension was just a little better than daytime, but nothing like what I experienced with "Sleep Mode".

If done repeatedly, you'll notice a pattern of polyp extension increasing a tad better than what you have now. Start feeding them at that time and you'll see what I'm talking about. I've been to a couple of frag farming facilities and spoke with many of the caretakers at length about this very issue. Many of them feed before they leave for the night, slow down the pumps and unplug their skimmers. This nutrient loading helps with not just the coloration of the corals, but increased growth rates of their ready to sell frags. I was amazed at how much food they showed me was going into their farm tanks every night. Granted, we cannot feed our closed systems as well as they do because we also feed fish that aid in polluting the water, so coral foods need to be used sparingly.

It's not at all as "questionable" as you state. There are many who do this. I realize there are many who don't as well.
I rest my case buddy since it appears that you are the one misunderstanding my original post, and my second post under "In example", where I clearly stated "Then there were times when I would slow down my flow just to see how the reef would react in the months to come and noticed my SPS corals weren't extending their polyps as much, only to extend them better when the flow was increased again".

In the end, if it works for you, that's all that matters Me, I would like to have the ability to sync the fixtures and pumps, yet turn off the night mode, or if possible, have control of the mode altogether instead of having the pump automatically reduce the flow by 50%. One of the greatest features of this fixture is it's ability to customize the programming like very few others can, and wouldn't it be greater if it allowed you to do this further than the forced options of just feed and night mode. Just a thought.


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Unread 05/15/2012, 12:14 PM   #1688
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My program

Here's what my program looks like after 5 weeks of starting at 65% intensity, and it now being at 100%.

Oh oh, looks like the image wont post here despite uploading it and clicking insert link. At any case, the picture of the program is on my profile.



Last edited by newyorksteelo; 05/15/2012 at 12:21 PM. Reason: Picture wont appear on post.
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Unread 05/15/2012, 12:24 PM   #1689
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Originally Posted by newyorksteelo View Post
I rest my case buddy since it appears that you are the one misunderstanding my original post, and my second post under "In example", where I clearly stated "Then there were times when I would slow down my flow just to see how the reef would react in the months to come and noticed my SPS corals weren't extending their polyps as much, only to extend them better when the flow was increased again".

In the end, if it works for you, that's all that matters Me, I would like to have the ability to sync the fixtures and pumps, yet turn off the night mode, or if possible, have control of the mode altogether instead of having the pump automatically reduce the flow by 50%. One of the greatest features of this fixture is it's ability to customize the programming like very few others can, and wouldn't it be greater if it allowed you to do this further than the forced options of just feed and night mode. Just a thought.

Ummm....no. You just slowed down the flow. You never stated that you started feeding them at that time with the lights out. It's a causal relationship. No food, no polyp extension. Pavlov's Law...you need to create the triggered response (lights) they see in nature at night when food is more abundant, sort of like how a dog reacts when he hears the cabinet door open and he knows through learning that his biscuit treats are inside. Nowhere did you state that you did this, only that you decreased the flow to see how the corals react. I read what you wrote very clearly.

You can talk down to me by calling me buddy, pal or any other phrase of speech that you feel helps you. I never said not to return to brisk water movement in the morning. You're assuming all or nothing in regards to water flow...and I never said that. Saying that you slowed down the pumps down over a few months is not even what I recommended. I'll bet when you slow them down in feed mode your fish come running to the surface for food, right? Corals do the same thing if they feel the trigger of no light and then food.


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Unread 05/15/2012, 12:37 PM   #1690
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Smile

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Ummm....no. You just slowed down the flow. You never stated that you started feeding them at that time with the lights out. It's a causal relationship. No food, no polyp extension. Pavlov's Law...you need to create the triggered response (lights) they see in nature at night when food is more abundant, sort of like how a dog reacts when he hears the cabinet door open and he knows through learning that his biscuit treats are inside. Nowhere did you state that you did this, only that you decreased the flow to see how the corals react. I read what you wrote very clearly.

You can talk down to me by calling me buddy, pal or any other phrase of speech that you feel helps you. I never said not to return to brisk water movement in the morning. You're assuming all or nothing in regards to water flow...and I never said that. Saying that you slowed down the pumps down over a few months is not even what I recommended. I'll bet when you slow them down in feed mode your fish come running to the surface for food, right? Corals do the same thing if they feel the trigger of no light and then food.
Oh my lanta I rest my case once again.


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Unread 05/15/2012, 07:39 PM   #1691
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david00061 View Post
I have taken my lights way up. 100% with all colors for 6 hours. Lights have been running on this schedule for a few months. I have had great growth and color with my Acros.
My acros have grown a whole lot in 5 months.
I am going to start backing my time down to around 4 hours a day and after that i am going to get my high intensity down to about 75%.
The reason behind this light change is i want a mixed reef. Right now i have to keep all my Chalice's and other LPS corals tucked back in the shade and I can't really enjoy them.
I really think these lights will do both give my SPS growth and color and not bleach my LPS
I have all ready seen fantastic color and growth with my Acros
I will take a month to get my lights turned down.
Later this week I will post a few pics of my tank.
[QUOTE=newyorksteelo;20254589]Sounds like you haven't had much success with 100% intensity on your LPS corals? Are they bleaching on you? I ask because just this week I bumped mines up to 100% for 7 hours straight. My LPS seem to be doing OK but it's too early to tell.[/Q

I have 12 Radions over a 109x40x27 lights are 8" above water. So I have plenty of light when lights are set to 100%. I want to find a happy balance. The reason I did turn the lights up to 100% was so I could see what these lights were capable of doing.
Yes it was too much lights for my Chalice's


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Unread 05/15/2012, 07:46 PM   #1692
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[QUOTE=david00061;20257246]
Quote:
Originally Posted by newyorksteelo View Post
Sounds like you haven't had much success with 100% intensity on your LPS corals? Are they bleaching on you? I ask because just this week I bumped mines up to 100% for 7 hours straight. My LPS seem to be doing OK but it's too early to tell.[/Q

I have 12 Radions over a 109x40x27 lights are 8" above water. So I have plenty of light when lights are set to 100%. I want to find a happy balance. The reason I did turn the lights up to 100% was so I could see what these lights were capable of doing.
Looking forward to more pics as well as your findings. Its been 2 days where I have the lights at 100% and my corals have responded well. My Strawberry Shortcake seems to be coloring up more and more everyday.


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Unread 05/15/2012, 07:57 PM   #1693
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[QUOTE=newyorksteelo;20257262]
Quote:
Originally Posted by david00061 View Post

Looking forward to more pics as well as your findings. Its been 2 days where I have the lights at 100% and my corals have responded well. My Strawberry Shortcake seems to be coloring up more and more everyday.
Did you see how my strawberry short cake colored up? Pic is in this thread. It looks great.


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Unread 05/15/2012, 07:59 PM   #1694
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[QUOTE=david00061;20257296]
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Originally Posted by newyorksteelo View Post

Did you see how my strawberry short cake colored up? Pic is in this thread. It looks great.
Will take a look.


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Unread 05/15/2012, 11:06 PM   #1695
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(searches for strawberry short cake)


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Unread 05/15/2012, 11:09 PM   #1696
newyorksteelo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david00061 View Post
Here it is. Awesome.


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Unread 05/15/2012, 11:31 PM   #1697
Breakbeats2334
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Thanks Steelo

On to the topic of lights i notice my acans rics fungia plate and chalices really really pop under these lights... dont get me wrong the sps got some color popping going on as well but theres a huge color distinction with the lps coloring up vs the sps.



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Unread 05/16/2012, 06:12 AM   #1698
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LOL! I like the play by play call...
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(searches for strawberry short cake)



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Unread 05/16/2012, 07:56 AM   #1699
Breakbeats2334
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LOL! I like the play by play call...
Glad someone enjoyed it :P


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Unread 05/16/2012, 09:33 AM   #1700
jameshongth
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Ecotech is going to come out new TIR Lens for Radion LED provides up to 30% more light in the aquarium with the same coverage of 24x24"...


Attached Images
File Type: jpg tir-lens-radion.jpg (84.5 KB, 74 views)
File Type: jpg tir-lens-radion-2.jpg (85.4 KB, 63 views)
File Type: jpg tir-lens-radion-3.jpg (67.8 KB, 56 views)
File Type: jpg tir-lens-radion-4.jpg (94.0 KB, 68 views)
File Type: jpg tir-lens-radion-5.jpg (68.1 KB, 80 views)

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