Metal-case LED scrubber light safety

[SantaMonica]

With the increased usage of natural algal filtration such as algae scrubbers, comes the increased usage of illumination to make the photosynthetic filtering process occur. However a certain type of light has come onto the market, and this light needs to be addressed because it is potentially unsafe when used on ATS algae turf scrubbers. If you do not have these lights, then you can decide whether to get them or not. If you already have them, then you can learn how to protect yourself.

The following posts are one person's professional opinion on the safety of these algae scrubber lights. You should consult your own professional advice and opinion from an independent electrical engineer, electronics engineer, electrician, or safety technician.

[outssider]

Originally Posted by SantaMonica

a certain type of light has come onto the market.

what light....give us a link....

[mcgyvr]

Originally Posted by SantaMonica

The following posts are

What posts?

[SantaMonica]

Sorry will get it posted in a bit.

[SantaMonica]

The lights are typically used when people build or buy the waterfall scrubber design we invented in the year 2008.

The light is a metal-case LED lighting fixture that is bolted on, and is typically made in China and sold online, but it could be made anywhere. It is designed for gardens and patios, with some rain, or for indoor growing areas that get no rain at all. See photos.

[mcgyvr]

So...........??...

[Gorgok]

How is that worse than the hardware store spring clamp light sockets used for cheato (or scrubbers before too)?

My 'dangerous barely splash proof metal chinese' grow lights are attached to my stand, above the sump. But i don't see them falling into the tank ever, so it shouldn't be an issue...

[SantaMonica]

The spring clamp ones are not being sold as safe scrubber lights. And, you are DIY, so you can only hurt yourself; not others. But if you sold them to others, and labeled them as safe scrubber lights, and then they fell into the water and injured someone, the outcome could be different.

I'll post more details.

[mcgyvr]

Like any other line powered equipment..(pumps/heaters,etc..)..if there is any chance of exposure to water you simply put that device on a gfci protected circuit..done..
These scrubbers you seem to be slowly trying to suggest are unsafe (and of course to attempt to promote your own products) are not intended to be located or exposed to locations where direct water exposure would be a problem.. Yes..accidents can happen though.. One could drop the power brick of a SM scrubber into their tank and be potentially exposed to the same dangers as you claim these others have..

[SantaMonica]

you simply put that device on a gfci protected circuit

From a liability standpoint, a manufacturer of lights cannot assume the customer will do anything, at all.

are not intended to be located or exposed to locations where direct water exposure would be a problem

Yes they are. That's were scrubbers go. On top of open, wet, saltwater sumps.

One could drop the power brick of a SM scrubber into their tank

This is similar to display lighting falling in. But all customers of aquarium products know not to drop electrical products into the water. What customers don't know, is that the thing they are about to touch on their sump could have 240/120 volts on its metal case, and it is possibly not grounded, either.

That's why I recommend U.L. listed only, and 2 meters of low-voltage DC cable, to keep the brick far away.

[mcgyvr]

Do you have proof that these lights are not properly grounded or have a record of insulation failure or energized casings?.

[fijisrfr]

So, do you offer lights suggestions?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[SantaMonica]

I'm giving my professional opinion on those lights, in hopes of reducing chances of injuries. Readers can then decide for themselves. I'll show how to make them safer but you can find many examples on youtube.

[SantaMonica]

I was the first to test and use these types lights on waterfall scrubbers in the year 2010, as a way of getting away from fluorescent bulbs. There is a side-by-side test of LED vs CFL that I did in 2011 on youtube.

The LED lights at first were expensive and cost $150 for one set shipped from China. But the pink “plant grow” colors worked well, and the heat was less. The lifespan was also longer, and it was not fragile to ship to customers. So I started using them on the first waterfall ATS algae scrubbers, which I invented in the year 2008; here is the acrylic box with a bottom shelf for the lights to set on, and a top shelf above the lights for protection; see photo.

Currently, all waterfall scrubbers for sale by others use this same open source free-to-copy waterfall scrubber design because it kind of works, and because the design was given away for free by me. It has problems, but again, it’s free to copy. And almost all pre-made scrubber builders also now use those metal-case LED bolt-on lights, mainly because they now cost only $5 including shipping from China. This makes the cost of those pre-made scrubbers artificially low, because they don’t have to make the lights safe (or even test the lights for safety), and this transfers the electrical risk to you, the customer. This typical Ebay listing of 20 lights for $99 even says "U.S. stock" to make it less apparent that they are from China; see photo.

[SantaMonica]

Having invented the waterfall scrubber design in 2008 (water flowing down a screen), I'm fairly familiar with how the scrubber works. And how the lights work too. Many people DIY their own scrubbers, and for these people the metal-case LED lights are fine to use as long as safety is observed. This is because DIY people tend to have experience with electricity, water, etc, and they are trusting their own skills to make things safe for themselves. If something goes wrong, only they get hurt. But commercial makers of scrubbers are expected to provide a safe product, because it will be purchased by consumers who are not expected to have experience in electricity. I don’t use that waterfall design anymore, even though I invented it. Nor those lights. Here’s why, with a focus on the safety:

The biggest problem with those lights is the fact that a line voltage of 240/120 volts comes directly into the metal-case light which is a non hermetically sealed compartment; and the light is placed within inches of splashing saltwater and salt-creep that comes out from the top of the scrubber. The scrubber is then placed on top of an open saltwater sump, where there is more splashing and more salt creep. The sump is almost always under a tank, with a simple front cabinet door that lets light out; larger tanks with sumps like these are usually located in a common area of a house such as a living room. Where children play. And it’s commonly known, and almost predictable, that the floor area in front of the sump gets wet, even when the cabinet door stays closed. It does not take much to imagine one’s child opening the cabinet door to see the “pretty pink” light, and then trying to touch it, while standing on a wet floor at the exact moment that that salt creep has shorted the internal 240/120 volts of the light to its metal case. So, the idea of writing this information is to prevent this from happening.

[mcgyvr]

Here SantaMonica..http://www.reefcentral.com/index.php/sponsors/
Be a good vendor and pay to market your products here..

[SantaMonica]

I have, thanks. But I think that if anything, the safety info is more important. How about this: I send you upcoming hard-info, and you re-write it to suite your needs, and post it like that.

Or better yet, let's take a vote. If nobody wants the safety info here, that's fine.

[homer1475]

And yet in the scrubber thread when asked specifically about these lights, you and floyd recommended them for DIY scrubbers...Even telling people they should buy them larger then whats needed and to run them on timers so they wont burn the algae off the screen. I will say you and floyd do give the warning that even though they are IP65 rated, they are not waterproof and should not be immersed.



With an IP65 rating, they should be absolutely fine for a scrubber application where they are not immersed in water but subjected only to mild moisture which it should be able to fend off and not short out causing the catastrophic event such as electrocuting someone standing near the tank. Besides, if you have a pool of water in front of your stand, you have bigger problems then some light which may not be grounded properly. And if you DIY anything electrical in this hobby and you read enough, anything electrical should be on a GFCI to prevent the catastrophic event you describe.



Wonder where I got the idea to use them in my DIY scrubber from? Oh yea you and floyd in the scrubber thread.......



And now your trying to tell us not to use them because of safety concerns? While I appreciate your efforts and help in the scrubber thread, I just see this as a way to get people to buy your "safer" product.



Sorry SM but most of us just see this thread as you shilling your own product in the general forums in a thin veiled safety measures thread.




EDIT:
After rereading the thread and your posts, I see your fine with DIY people using these light as we assume the responsibility of using them. What your having problems with is manufacturers mass marketing/mass producing their scrubbers equipped with these lights and people having no idea how dangerous they actually are.


Question to you though, with an IP65 rating, unless they are dropped into the water, they should be fine? If they are grounded properly with a third prong on the plug which in my case the ones I bought are grounded properly and plugged into a GFCI outlet, they should be perfectly fine to use?

[SantaMonica]

Am happy to get further into this, if people want the info. Did not see any votes though.

I've posted less than half of it so far, and the rest is still being edited.

[SantaMonica]

No votes.

What your having problems with is manufacturers mass marketing/mass producing their scrubbers equipped with these lights and people having no idea how dangerous they actually are

Correct.

Question to you though, with an IP65 rating, unless they are dropped into the water, they should be fine? If they are grounded properly with a third prong on the plug which in my case the ones I bought are grounded properly and plugged into a GFCI outlet, they should be perfectly fine to use?

No they would not be fine. The metal can corrode and break the seal where you can't see it. And many of them don't have grounds connected at all. And it gets worse with time, not better.

[SantaMonica]

As an electrical engineer (BSEE), people like me are sometimes asked to be expert witnesses in court cases about electrical safety liability. In the USA, electrical safety is tested, and accepted most readily in industry, by Underwriter’s Laboratory (UL). Unfortunately this testing is expensive, and if a Chinese LED light maker pays for the UL certification, the cost of their lights will be much higher (and the certified product will have a “eXXXXXX” number on it). But UL certification shows that a third party has inspected the power supply to be safe, instead of just the maker of the product saying it’s safe. Also unfortunately, none of the Chinese LED lights described above are UL certified, as far as I know. This problem becomes bigger because the metal case of the light (metal is needed to remove heat) is what “protects” the wires and electronics inside. However this metal case in not hermetically sealed (not truly “waterproof”), and indeed because of the $5 cost it is often rushed through assembly where even the rubber seals are incorrectly inserted, or forgotten altogether. Here is an example "waterproof" light from ebay, fresh out of the box; you can see the "waterproof" seal on the 240/120 volt wire is completely not sealed. See photos.

There have been cases on aquarium forums, and on youtube, where the metal compartment screws have not been tight, or were missing. Ground wires were loose, or just cut off. Internal drivers loose and rattling around. Heat sink compound too thin or missing, causing overheating and melting of wire insulation, and even causing steam from water that was splashed on it. Because of this, it’s my personal opinion that using these metal bolt-on LED lights is potentially unsafe in the saltwater environment of scrubbers which are setting on sumps. Googling “chinese led light danger” finds too many results to read, but here are typical ones:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbt2ojkXPuo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Pubk8Ets2I

[fishyguy7]

So what you are saying is buy my scrubbers ?

[SantaMonica]

For people not familiar with salt creep (maybe you only have freshwater), it gets into everything. Any crack, surface, or other area inside a sump will eventually get at least a light coating of salt creep, even if the direction of the surface goes upwards. Areas closer to the sump top will get a coating that you can wipe with your fingers, just like dirt on the ground. Areas on the top rim of the sump where scrubbers are placed will get coatings thick enough to require scraping tools. And salt creep is always wet, so yes, it’s very conductive of electricity. It’s the single biggest cause of shorted-out power sockets in sump areas. Any 240/120 volt electrical device in a sump area needs to be hermetically sealed, or else it will eventually get salt creep into it. It might take months, or years, but it will happen. Here is an example video, and an example photo is attached:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QAwXCDm8R0?t=96

And here is a more thorough description of residue build-up, which is similar to salt creep but occurs in freshwater too:

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ity_do_not_mix

What does hermetically sealed mean? It means it's air-tight. And if it's air-tight, it's waterproof. It would be difficult to make the metal-case lights air-tight, because you would have to basically weld the case together. The most common way of making electronics air-tight and waterproof is make them a solid component.

All other aquarium sump equipment has the 240/120 volt area hermetically sealed: power heads, heaters, etc. The metal-case LED lights that are being used for algae scrubbers by some people seem to be the only equipment not sealed properly.

[SantaMonica]

Related to salt creep, is corrosion creep. Because the metal case of the bolt-on lights is aluminum, it can corrode slowly (even in freshwater) where the seal is located, especially at the top of the light where water splashes onto it. So even a seal that is designed and assembled correctly can be pushed sideways by corrosion creep, and eventually the seal will not be sealed anymore. And if it’s on the top of the light, water can now drain directly down onto the 240/120 volt electronics inside, and you won’t see it because the corrosion is on the inside of the seal area. A stainless steel case would prevent this, but low cost metal-case lights are never stainless. Stainless enclosures are used in underwater 240/120 volt pool lighting, but those lights start at $100 each. Here is a pool accent light with a single 3 watt LED inside, and it is $40; note how much stainless steel is needed to protect it (see attached photo).

The best way to slow down corrosion is during disassembly inspection: coat both sides of the metal case (where they touch together) with grease or petroleum jelly, and re-insert the seal, and re-assemble. Ongoing disassembly and inspection every 6 months is advisable. Unfortunately, each month that goes by will allow more salt and corrosion creep to occur, and the seal will only get worse, not better. And, just like the Chinese do, you might actually mess up a seal during re-assembly, which was fine before you took it apart. So be careful.

Interestingly, most commercial scrubber builders use absolutely no metal in their main boxes which hold the algae growth, because of course the metal would corrode. There are many low cost metal boxes that could be used, which would not crack during shipping like acrylic/perspex does, but builders instead take the time to hand-construct boxes out of acrylic/perspex so that corrosion will not be an issue. So why then do they allow metal on the lights (the most important area for safety) if they know it will corrode?

The reason again is simple: Cost. Just $5 to $8 each, including shipping from China. But the Chinese know that if someone is injured because of these lights, nobody will be going to China to sue them. So the Chinese have absolutely no need to make things safer. It’s up to the DIY person to check each light (by taking it apart), and it’s up to each commercial scrubber maker to request UL certification, non-metal construction, low voltage operation, and hermetically sealed enclosures.

It's my opinion that all of the low cost metal-case lights are made in China, even if they have been relabeled to look otherwise. I've spent hundreds of hours trying to find lights (and other parts) in the USA, only to be directed to China every time. The cost of the metal castings for the case alone would be $10 or $20 each, if made in the USA. And the labor to assemble the electronic and other parts would be another $30 at least. So manufacturing in the USA is not an option for these types of lights, and if they say “Made In USA” you should assume this is not true. This was yet another reason for us to abandon these metal lights (and their internal electronics design). But even if the bolt-on metal Chinese lights were made in the USA, and even if they were UL certified, you still have the problem of the electronics enclosure not being hermetically sealed. So if water, or steam, or salt creep gets inside, and you touch the metal case, it’s not going to matter who made it, or who certified it, or what the warranty is. The 240/120 volts should be 2 meters away from the splashing and salt creep (see attached photo).

[WVfishguy]

I, for one, appreciate information.

Nowhere does SantaMonica ask us to buy his lights. And no one here is so silly they'll blindly run out and buy his lights simply because he posted something here.

I'm new to the whole LED thing, and would not know how poorly made Chinese LED floods are had I not read this. So, thank you SantaMonica.

This guy spent a considerable amount of time with this warning, and backed up what he's saying as best he could. Yet it appears he is receiving an almost hostile reception.

This attitude may make the next person who has a product warning hesitate to post about it, and less information is never better.

So, instead of criticizing him, how 'bout we cut him some slack and simply take the information in the way it was intended?