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Old 10/11/2019, 07:49 AM   #51
Dmorty217
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aaand thats how you complete the we are like everyone else in the industry in one month gig. Really sad to see what Petco has done.


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Fish are not disposable commodities, but a worthwhile investment that can be maintained and enjoyed for many years, providing one is willing to take the time to understand their requirements and needs

Current Tank Info: 625g, 220g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 3 MP60s, MP40. Several QTs
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Old 10/11/2019, 10:25 AM   #52
ThRoewer
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Well, I will have to rely more on LFS. Luckily we have a good selection around here, but it really sucks for the people who live far from a good fish store...

I think that LiveAquaria is going the wrong way by going down to everyone else's standards and services.
Especially the "expert only" arrive alive restriction is a bad move. Basically, what it tells you now is to kill everything that arrives in a shaky condition instead of giving it a best effort to save the specimen like you could safely do with the 14 days warranty.
In effect, I won't buy any anemones from them anymore. And with fish I will think twice before ordering them through LiveAquaria and probably rather go through Jordan and similar services to order the more exotic and rare things...

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Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
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Old 10/11/2019, 12:47 PM   #53
hkgar
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Originally Posted by ThRoewer View Post
Another change/new restriction I just noticed:
"We guarantee that ALL aquaria species we offer will arrive alive and in good condition. However, because of the increased level of care required for this particular species, it has been designated as "Expert Only." This species is recommended only for the expert aquarist, zoo, or research institution. “Expert Only” aquatic life is exempt from our extended guarantee after their arrival."
Although I don't agree with many of the changes pointed out here, exempting "Expert only" fish from the extended guarantee makes sense to me. A lot of people (particularly newbies) buy fish with out even a smidgen of research, then is surprised their beautiful Green Mandarin has starved to death.


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180 gallon, 30 gallon sump, 8 80W ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Aquamaxx T-3 CaRx

Current Tank Info: 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Yellow/Purple, McMaster Fairy, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, & Atlantic Blue Tangs, 2 Percula Clown, 4 PJ and 2 Banggai Cardinalfish , Swallowtail and Bellus, Flame, Coral Beauty Angels
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Old 10/11/2019, 03:24 PM   #54
ThRoewer
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Although I don't agree with many of the changes pointed out here, exempting "Expert only" fish from the extended guarantee makes sense to me. A lot of people (particularly newbies) buy fish with out even a smidgen of research, then is surprised their beautiful Green Mandarin has starved to death.
Yes, newbies shouldn't buy these animals, but even seasoned "experts" have little to no chance of keeping an animal alive that they get already in a severely emaciated, injured, or sick condition.

As a simple matter of fact, no fish that has made into the country alive should starve to death within a week or two unless it is already severely emaciated - in which case it shouldn't be sold in the first place. I had regal angels and other fish that lasted months without eating. And even in the smallest tank with minimal pod population a decently sized mandarin should last well over 2 weeks before starvation ultimately kills it.

This change is basically a blanket permit to send you a moribund animal and then say it wasn't their fault when it dies a day or even just hours after you got it.

And when you go to the bottom of it all, you have to be some level of Expert in this field to keep even the hardiest reef animal alive in captivity. Someone who has absolutely no clue may kill the hardiest and healthiest damsel without even trying. My wife even managed to kill guppies she got from a friend by putting them into tap water and having skin care products on her hands while handling them...

And how do you define "Expert" here anyway? Is someone with a degree in Aquaculture or Marine Biology an "Expert"? Many of those are just as lost as most newbies when it comes to diseases and getting fish to eat in captivity.

The simple truth is that they jacked up the prices and lowered the warranty coverage.


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Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
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Old 10/11/2019, 10:17 PM   #55
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Most of the complaints seem to be about live aquaria. Are people having problems with Divers Den also or are they still sending out quality livestock?
Myles


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Old 10/12/2019, 10:16 AM   #56
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I ordered a sail fin tang from divers den a few months ago, and it was in no
way the one shown in the picture. The tang was skinny and tummy sucked in. There was no
Way it was eating prior to
Shipping.


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Old 10/12/2019, 11:53 AM   #57
albano
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I ordered a sail fin tang from divers den a few months ago, and it was in no
way the one shown in the picture. The tang was skinny and tummy sucked in. There was no
Way it was eating prior to
Shipping.
Did it survive?


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Old 10/12/2019, 12:47 PM   #58
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No bc it never ate.


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Old 10/12/2019, 01:49 PM   #59
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I have bought over 95% of my fish from either LA or DD and my success rate with them has been probably better then 95%. It was less until I learned about death in the bags, particularly with Wrasses which are very difficult fish to ship.

Read this!


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180 gallon, 30 gallon sump, 8 80W ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Aquamaxx T-3 CaRx

Current Tank Info: 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Yellow/Purple, McMaster Fairy, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, & Atlantic Blue Tangs, 2 Percula Clown, 4 PJ and 2 Banggai Cardinalfish , Swallowtail and Bellus, Flame, Coral Beauty Angels
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Old 10/12/2019, 01:55 PM   #60
hkgar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThRoewer View Post

The simple truth is that they jacked up the prices and lowered the warranty coverage.
Yup, probably because an analysis of the loss ratio showed an unacceptable loss percentage and good business practices demanded a change in procedure. Any sound business decision would factor in the loss of sales versus the loss through the guarantee.

If you don't like their decision you can certainly go somewhere else.
M LFS has a 72 hour replacement policy and after that it is "on a case by case basis". (maybe depending on how good a customer your are?)


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Gary


180 gallon, 30 gallon sump, 8 80W ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Aquamaxx T-3 CaRx

Current Tank Info: 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Yellow/Purple, McMaster Fairy, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, & Atlantic Blue Tangs, 2 Percula Clown, 4 PJ and 2 Banggai Cardinalfish , Swallowtail and Bellus, Flame, Coral Beauty Angels
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Old 10/13/2019, 05:00 AM   #61
ThRoewer
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Originally Posted by hkgar View Post
Yup, probably because an analysis of the loss ratio showed an unacceptable loss percentage and good business practices demanded a change in procedure. Any sound business decision would factor in the loss of sales versus the loss through the guarantee.

If you don't like their decision you can certainly go somewhere else.
M LFS has a 72 hour replacement policy and after that it is "on a case by case basis". (maybe depending on how good a customer your are?)
The 14-day warranty had worked for Fosters & Smith for a very long time so I don't think the "loss ratio" explanation is correct this way. More likely the Quality Marine is no longer capable or willing to only ship healthy livestock to LiveAquaria customers. Or the Petco management just wants a higher return rate and doesn't give a damn about quality and customer satisfaction...

Most LFS I know have a "no warranty once it left the store" policy on livestock. Though good customers who they know well enough may at times get a refund for a same/next day loss on a case by case basis.
But the key difference between an LFS and LiveAquaria is that you can observe and select the fish you want and decide based on appearance and behavior whether to buy it or not. And pretty much every LFS will feed the fish if you ask so you can see if it is eating or at least interested in food or if it is not reacting at all.
However, with LiveAquaria (and most other online vendors) all purchases are blind, even Diver's Den just gives a (staged) picture that really doesn't tell you much about the fish's behavior or overall condition. That's where the warranty came in to compensate for this "bought unseen" and to ease your mind and also make sure the staff at Quality Marine would pick healthy fish that stand a chance to survive at least 2 weeks.
But now they can send you everything as long as it is just strong enough to survive shipping. And I have seen precisely that in recent shipments where I got fish that were so malnourished that even with expert care and live food there was no way to rescue them. The last ones were two bluestripe pipefish of which one was healthy and well-nourished (and still alive) while the second was so emaciated that it was just "skin and bones" and died within hours of arrival. I tried live tigger pods but the fish was already too weak to feed. I still got credit because it was just before they rolled out their new warranty restrictions. Today things may have gone differently

To me, this isn't a sound business decision but rather a lazy way to shed responsibility. If they really want to make sure finicky species get only to qualified people, there are other ways.

I've done a lot of business with LiveAquaria in the past was overall satisfied with what I got. But with the new warranty restrictions, I will think twice now before ordering an expensive fish.


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Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
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Old 10/14/2019, 08:13 AM   #62
Dmorty217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThRoewer View Post
Well, I will have to rely more on LFS. Luckily we have a good selection around here, but it really sucks for the people who live far from a good fish store...

I think that LiveAquaria is going the wrong way by going down to everyone else's standards and services.
Especially the "expert only" arrive alive restriction is a bad move. Basically, what it tells you now is to kill everything that arrives in a shaky condition instead of giving it a best effort to save the specimen like you could safely do with the 14 days warranty.
In effect, I won't buy any anemones from them anymore. And with fish I will think twice before ordering them through LiveAquaria and probably rather go through Jordan and similar services to order the more exotic and rare things...

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Jordan has been my go to for rare fish for the past 4 years, top notch


__________________
Fish are not disposable commodities, but a worthwhile investment that can be maintained and enjoyed for many years, providing one is willing to take the time to understand their requirements and needs

Current Tank Info: 625g, 220g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 3 MP60s, MP40. Several QTs
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Old 10/14/2019, 08:55 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Dmorty217 View Post
Jordan has been my go to for rare fish for the past 4 years, top notch
web site?


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Gary


180 gallon, 30 gallon sump, 8 80W ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Aquamaxx T-3 CaRx

Current Tank Info: 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Yellow/Purple, McMaster Fairy, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, & Atlantic Blue Tangs, 2 Percula Clown, 4 PJ and 2 Banggai Cardinalfish , Swallowtail and Bellus, Flame, Coral Beauty Angels
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Old 10/14/2019, 10:23 AM   #64
Dmorty217
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web site?
www.amongthereef.com


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Fish are not disposable commodities, but a worthwhile investment that can be maintained and enjoyed for many years, providing one is willing to take the time to understand their requirements and needs

Current Tank Info: 625g, 220g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 3 MP60s, MP40. Several QTs
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Old 10/14/2019, 12:30 PM   #65
ThRoewer
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Is their new website up already? Last time I checked it was still down/under construction.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
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Old 10/14/2019, 02:08 PM   #66
Dmorty217
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Is their new website up already? Last time I checked it was still down/under construction.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Yes, Jordan text me the other day and said the new site was up and running.


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Fish are not disposable commodities, but a worthwhile investment that can be maintained and enjoyed for many years, providing one is willing to take the time to understand their requirements and needs

Current Tank Info: 625g, 220g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 3 MP60s, MP40. Several QTs
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Old Yesterday, 10:12 AM   #67
Fish559
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I bought a red head solon fairy wrasse from the regular LA site (not DD). It was beautiful. Prettiest specimen I've ever seen. A small candy hogfish is arriving today - fingers crossed.


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Old Yesterday, 10:19 AM   #68
Fish559
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I really do miss that $99 shipping threshold (don't get me started on boxing fee!). Tough to make that number work. Most fish I'd buy are right around that $80-$100 range. Throw in a few snails or crabs and there you go - easy to get to $99.

The $149 requirement has made me buy some nice corals though


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