please review my interceptor treatment plan!

[Lunchbucket]

got yah 3 it is!!!

Lunchbucket

[fahz]

Originally posted by Leviathan
Lunch,

Anyhow,

I have one question, and please excuse me if this is hijacking. I figured since you were in a similar situation to me ( about to dose ) it would be silly to start a new thread on it.

Lets say that all goes well with the treatment, I would like to avoid this from happening again. I cant get a straight answer as to any Dip treatments dip time/doseage/etc... for new additions? I realize a QT tank would be best here,,but at this point in time thats just not an option for me. It will be at some point after all this though!

Any ideas, or experiences?

Also,,
I have seen that the effects on crabs/shrimp are fatal, But have seen a few ( not many, but enough to concern me ) that suggest snail being affected by the treatment. Is this been a problem in anyones experiences or just rumor?

Just a note for you guys about dips. I used 1/8 of a tablet in 5 gallons of tank water for 1 hour with a powerhead. This is a high dose but effective as the bugs died in about 30 minutes. The pieces that were dipped were added to my tank after the dip but were toxic to hermits which went on them for an hour or two. I think it would have been better to do a 100% change on the 5 gallon or had another 5 gallon standing by for another hour to detoxify. Could have used a five gallon bucket. I will tell you not to trust a guy who says he treated and is bug free, frags seem to be the worst.

Fahz

[Lunchbucket]

Fahz - good point on not to trust ANYONE that says they have treated and are bug free...better to be safe than sorry. even if they think they are bug free and treated like others have seen they can come back w/out the 3 doses. i recently did this to a buddy and i am very sorry for it

i got frags that were "bug free" and had been treated in the past. i now have bugs and i gave my buddy frags and told him don't worry they are bug free...my bad and now his 280 has bugs bad i guess. i feel terrible. good thing they are treatable but he will loos his acro crabs and LOTS of other stuff because of it

now this posses a question.

if you treat your frags ONCE in a QT tank before introducing them to the tank you could STILL infect your tank correct? since we do NOT know how they reproduce and could have eggs layed on or IN the corals that could later hatch out...or i am just thinking too deep?

to me it seems that we should almost QT ALL frags like fish for at least 3wks. this would give time to do 3 doses and KNOW that we killed all the red bugs. if one treatment was done on the frags who is to say that they couldn't actually infect the tank later if eggs, larva, or other such means of reproducing was in or on the frags and hatched out later

anyone???

Lunchbucket

[davejnz]

I've introduced a few new frags after q-tine for 6hrs at 20x(estimted) the recommended dose.Since Interceptor doesn't dissolve well in seawater,i take about a quart and place it in the blender with the meds.Seems to get it in suspension alot better.So far,i've still been bug free but i agree,it would probably be best to do a 3week q-tine.

[Travis]

I also agree, the 3 wk quarantine would be best but how many of us have quarantine tanks with metal halides, chillers, etc. dedicated just for that tank?

I think I was successfull treating all incoming corals at 4x recommeded dosage for 12 hours but you can never be 100% sure. I have the bugs now but think they came from a recent frag addition that wasn't treated. One 1" frag was all it took. Supposedly, the frag came from a "bug free" tank so I played Russian roullette and got burned. I could have the bugs because my quarantine protocol was not 100% effective or it could be from the frag (most likely). Either way, I will not be introducing ANY more corals to my tank without treating them first, regardless of whether or not they are supposed to be "bug free".

For those of you who have dosed more than the recommended amount to your display tanks, how much more did you dose? And did that have any negative effects on anything? I'm a fan of dosing a little extra just to be sure but not sure if I want to go that route in the display.

[Lunchbucket]

i believe geshields has done some mega dosing w/ NO ill effects

Lunchbucket

[fahz]

During March I did 1/4 pill treatments for 70 gallons. The red bugs and the small pods are gone. I removed all my hermits except about ten. After the first treatment all the remaining hermits but one were gone, he died in the second treatment. I have lots of snails and didn't lose any. I had two shrimp they both made the first treatment and one pepermint died in the second treatment, the Blood Red is still alive. All my fish lived but my Manderin suffered from the loss of pods until I started feeding him in a bottle, now he's fat. I have about fifty SPS frags, a Symphyllia brain, and a Crocea Clam and they are all doing fine. The treatments looked like they affected the sand bed but it came back and looks fine now, I'm sure in time the pods will be back. I added about fifty hermits one week after the last treatment and they are all doing fine so one twenty five percent water change and the carbon after each treatment seems to take care of the toxic effect. Hope this information helps with your treatments.

Fahz

Note: Bigger pods seem to make it like the amphipods its just the copipods and what ever holds your sand bed together that dies and the red bugs.

[Lunchbucket]

well going to dump my dose in...wish me luck (2:15pm CST)

Lunchbucket

[fahz]

Good luck Lunch you should have no problems keep an eye on things I think your going to see alot more bugs then you think. Once you add the Interseptor they seem to show up better or it seemed so anyway. They seem to die quite soon but hang on for about 4-5 hours on the SPS natural slim coat, you can see them but there not moving. Be sure to give it the full six hours before starting the water change. One water change seems to do the job until you treat again. After the first treatment I added two test hermits after 24 hours and they made it until I treated again.

Fahz

[Lunchbucket]

fahz - i'll be at work from now (3pm) till 6:30pm. the wife gets home at 5pm so i'll have to have her tell me what things look like.

yeah i am sure they hide quite well. as i didn't even notice them for quite a while.

i will leave it till 9:30 or 10pm so 7hrs + just to make sure. then a good 25% or MORE water change and a good gravel siphoning and a LOT of carbon and skimmer turned on. then tomorrow am i will change out the carbon for fresh.

hope my emerald and cleaner shrimp make it...i could care less abou the hermits...they are a PITA

off to work...i'll be thinking of my tank the WHOLE time

Lunchbucket

[MiddletonMark]

Originally posted by Lunchbucket
since we do NOT know how they reproduce and could have eggs layed on or IN the corals that could later hatch out...or i am just thinking too deep?

IMO, thinking too deep.

Flushing the coral to remove any interceptor/toxins from a strong dip IMO is wise. [or any hiding RB's barely hanging on ...]

But if you read Eric B's posts recently at reeffrontiers he's suggesting that they direct-develop/no larval stage ... meaning there would be no `eggs' or such that could hatch out remaining.

He sounds pretty certain, though I've heard enough certainty before to be skeptical towards most [like your buddy's frags ...] - but it sounds `right' to me [not really your expert opinion ]

[Lunchbucket]

ok time to do a water change

i still see pods moving and the shrimp looks ok!!

off to water change, carbon, and get skimmer kicked back in!

Lunchbucket

[fahz]

What kind of pods do you see moving around? How much Interceptor did you use? Are all the red bugs gone off your Acros and did you run water through your skimmer without skimming during treatment? I'm sure everything is OK just checking.

fahz

[Leviathan]

Keep us updated Lunch,

I am now two days post treatment and all seems fine. I still havent seen pod one, but I was expecting that.

[Lunchbucket]

just got done 2 hrs later...well i messed w/ my aquacontroller for about 30min too my skimmer is set to skim wet till the AM then i will turn it down and i will change out the carbon tomorrow night for fresh.

ok all is done. ALL red bugs were gone off the infested coral at about 7pm or so. i left the treatment in 7hrs! i used about 2.5-3 salifert spoons for my 58gal. from what i have been hearing from buddies who divided up the tab a spoon treats about 32gal. so i treated with a 80-96gal dose. i wanted to go a titch higher to MAKE SURE i got them all. per the wifes instruction i WILL be doing another dose 1 wk from today....just to make sure. i'll use 3spoons or more that time.

i saw some of the little whitish ones the have like 10legs sticking out the side...i can't remember the name right now...too late. well i thought i saw them unless they were just stuck to the glass and dead. i'll check. ok just checked again...i saw one of the smaller pods i despribed above and one of the bigger ones. the big one looked dazed like he was shell shocked.

my cleaner shrimp is A-OK and guess what ...found of the emeralds on a rock also. he looked ok but wasn't moving across the rock but was alive...not sure if eating though

i stick the airline of my NW sedra 5000 in the water to suck just water and left the feed pump on for the skimmer also.

everything should be ok. i know others have seen shrimp and crabs make it through...and a few pods also

i see NO mysis shrimp like i did before and don't see the hoards of pods running around. only those 2.

the infested coral..the main one i saw has NO bugs on it and actually looks like 2 of its TINY polyps want to come out!!! cool cool!!

well one week of inspecting and draining and making water for a change. then another treatment....prolly a higher strength just to make sure

all in all PERFECT so far
Lunchbucket

[SeanT]

Good feeling. Ain't it?

[Lunchbucket]

good feeling?? as in bug free or to be done :P BOTH

just hope i AM bug free...well the 2nd treatment will knock them out.

just hope the pods come back now

Lunchbucket

[SeanT]

Pods are EASY to come by man.
Get some chaeto from someone, keep it in a qt tank for a bit with some rubble.
Transport rubble to main and VOILA! Pods.

[fahz]

Lunch sounds like you have the bases covered. Do the additional treatments even though you will see no more bugs.

Fahz

[Lunchbucket]

will do the 2nd treatment for sure...3rd probably isn't needed IMO

i saw a mysis shrimp this morning. he wasn't moving fast but i saw one. i didn't look very hard either. it took me about 2 min of looking on the left side ans i spotted one. i'm sure he is about the only one....i had a TON of them before since i has not fish due to being in a QT tank for 7wks plus...so i am sure they had a chance to get up in numbers. 2nd treatments will pretty much knock them down

skimmer pulled off about 1/16 of a cup last night. pretty wet but about like medium sun tea. i'll dump it later today when i change the carbon.

cleaner shrimp is still alive but i couldn't see the emeralds so now sure if they are alive or dead

no red bugs either. doesn't mean there aren't a few there though...oh well 1 wk they will be gone for SURE

Lunchbucket

[fahz]

The news sounds good, Mysis were the first thing to come back or the first thing in the pod family that I know made it. I only did two treatments one week apart and based it on the most current information of no egg stage and four day cycle with no Acros. Not to say I'm right only time will tell. The task seems big but it's one of the easier things I've done with success.

Fahz

[Racenrich]

~FWIW~

lunch-do the three treatments.....i was leary at first myself, but i didnt want to deter from what most people are doing....i did it 3x's within two weeks. like every 5 days i did it. Did a 10% H20 change each time and ran some carbon for abit.
The only things i lost were my cleaner shrimp, both emralds, and a couple of crabs i was unable to remove from the tank.

blood shrimp, coral bandit and all snails are still kicking.

Its been about 7 weeks now and to be honest the corals that were effected are "just now"starting to look like they did prior to treatment. (My Millies are finely showing full extension)
I've been worried that i didnt do enough and that i was going to have to do it again.

As for newly added frags or colonies.....i add about 1/4th pill to one gallon of tank water and let sit for 30 min, remove and put into fresh one gallon for 15 min.....

ive only done this 2x's since the treatment, im still leary about adding new corals to the tank nowadays....im sure we all are now.

HTH

Cheers,
Rich K.

[Lunchbucket]

will do the 2nd treatment on thursday. all the water is getting up to SG and want enough time ot age and make sure it is right.

the 2nd treatment will be the last.

Lunchbucket

[fahz]

Boy is it easy to make a dumb mistake. I was given a Blue Tort frag last week, arrived home at 10 PM and put it in my tank without thinking. It came from a "Bug Free System" but could have just as well been covered with red bugs. I spent a lot of time looking with the magnifying glass once I realized what I had done, so much for any words of wisdom from me.

Fahz

[Lunchbucket]

dang sorry to hear. so you have the bugs then?

Lunchbucket