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Unread 06/02/2019, 07:38 PM   #1
Sk8r
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An oldfashioned but cheap route to water stability...

This works for fish-onlies and reefs. No fish is likely to complain about the water being too good, and the method below tends to LOCK the readings into a relationship that can be held steady as long as your topoff barrel holds out. If you keep adding to it, practically indefinitely. I've also left my tank for a month, with the tank sitter only needing to switch the hose and pump to a new barrel of ro/di.

Note: I don't use 2-part. I use separate additives.

Here's the deal: start with magnesium. Get it into the 1300s. Then get the alkalinity to 8.3. Do them one at a time. Last of all, once you have that set, bring your calcium level to 420.

If you're going only by colors, you will need to get some numbers-only tests. I use Salifert. And I'll give you a couple of cheats. You can swirl the little tube AND add the reagent (fluid) in fairly rapid but discrete drops, UNLESS it says swirl first. Then meticulously swirl for the indicated seconds. Swirl for 10 seconds? Easy: I tuck the swirlie tube in my hand while unscrewing the cap on the regent and filling the syringe. That takes about 10 seconds. Swirling, roger, complete. I used to work in a lab. And cavalier though it may sound, it's ok to do that unless it IS rocket science.

Two. you will note a 'flash' of the color change long before the drops are enough to cause the whole vial to change. Note this by always looking down into your vial from the top, over a white sheet of paper. When you see the flash, slow down your dropping. Stop when the color change is definite, look at the numbers on your syringe, look at the chart, and zingo, a perfect numerical reading.

Second cheat: mostly test the alk. Weekly. Even daily. It's the easiest, fastest test to run. It will read 8.3 until the mag runs low. If the alk drops, check your mag. It will be below 1200 (a magic number.) Bring that number back to 1350, say.

Next day, test again. See how the mag is. If you're in the 1300's, then raise your alk with buffer. Next day test your alk. (always wait a day between adding and testing: takes time to work; and don't do the two different additives on the same day.) If you're 8.3, good. Then check your calcium. If low, raise it.

NOW---that you're stable, and good, take a good amount of Mrs. Wages' Pickling Lime (or Kalk powder) and add 2 tsps per gallon of water in your BARREL, not your system. And stir until dissolved. But don't worry if a white residue collects on the bottom. Neat thing about kalk is that it WILL Not dissolve more than 2 tsp per gallon of ro/di water. The excess just falls out of solution, to dissolve as you add more ro/di. Magic, eh? But it does it. In my big 30 gallon reservoir, I don't even measure. I just dump in a whole bag of Mrs. Wages, and stir. It settles, and as I add more ro/di over the course of a month---more dissolves. And Mrs Wages is WAY cheaper than a canister of calcium additive.

The wonder of it all is, that ratio of 1300 mg, 8.3 alk, 420 cal will hold steady so long as the mag holds out, which is why you check your alk (the easier test) to be sure the mag is not out. IF the mag is out, you run the mag test to see how much it's out, and fix it. Then you fix the alk. Back to normal.

The only thing a fish-only is going to use much of is probably magnesium, which, with calcium, gets used in coralline. You'll have lots of pink. But holding that ratio means you're going to be pretty stable, and you won't have much worry about ph, because it's related to the kh (alkalinity) number.

A softie reef again won't use much of anything but the mag. The rest will just keep the water comfortable. BUT your snails and inverts and coralline will suck up the cal and mag.

If you have a stony coral reef, here's where it really pays, because a jar of calcium supplement is pricey, and these guys suck down a massive lot of calcium as they grow. Along with mag. But remember that neat trick with the Mrs. Wages not dissolving until needed? That stuff is calcium. Kalk (in German.) So that residue down there is just a picnic for your stony corals, clams, snails, etc. A never ending picnic, because it just keeps feeding in, and until the mag runs down, that chemical balance is going to keep it available for those calcium hungry organisms (coralline, snails, hard corals) and keep the tank in good balance.

I don't run with a controller. Or a calcium reactor. Or a kalk reactor. (this rough method works well up to 70gal a packed hard coral tank, and up to 100 gal if you have a mixed reef or light stony coral load. I just use the tests...those, and the behavior of nems, shrooms, and corals. Fish swim until they don't. But nems and shrooms and corals tuck in when they're unhappy. So develop a good relationship with some of these critters, and just look at them. I can tell by looking if I need to check the water earlier than Saturday.

Controllers are great, new-school things, and save a lot of work. Calcium reactors are great if you're stony and over 70 gallons. Kalk reactors are fine if you do not have room for a large enough reservoir. But the simple stone-axe method of the 3-way balance can do a pretty good job of feeding coral growth about as fast as a fancier system.


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Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

Last edited by Sk8r; 06/02/2019 at 07:58 PM.
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Unread 06/02/2019, 08:08 PM   #2
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One further note: a topoff accident with a kalk feed IS just a topoff accident: the big deal is the fresh water pouring into your tank, so check your salinity before you freak at the fact your tank looks milky.

The excess kalk is not a HUGE deal, though you'd rather not. Kalk comes in at a ph of 12, BUT it will self-adjust downward real fast as it mixes with your total water supply, and while you might correct a 50 gallon oopsie downward with a teaspoon of Schweppe's Bar Soda, do not exceed that measure for a 50 gallon tank, because it IS self-correcting and you don't want to overshoot. 'Kay? If this unpleasantness has happened, and most of us do it at least once, I've never lost a coral to it. It is a good idea to turkey-baster corals that are coated. Helps it disperse. But fear not, of mistakes you can make with a tank, the fresh water excess is worse. If that's worse than a .002 drop in salinity, bring that salinity up slowly, slowly, because while a rapid salinity drop won't hurt fish, a rapid rise of more than .002 is not good for fish or inverts.


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Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.
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Unread 06/02/2019, 08:32 PM   #3
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Thanks for posting this @Sk8r!

I love your straightforward, simple way of doing things without the need for some pricey piece of equipment!


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Unread 06/03/2019, 07:45 AM   #4
Sk8r
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Thanks so much, HumbleFish.

I'm in a re-set-up procedure from a long period of neglect in a house remodel---this is headed into its second year of construction. And I have a nice new sump-area-cabinet in the basement. AND I thought of going whole hog for the controllers and such, which is a bit of a learning curve, and the more I looked into it, the more I thought, oh, heck, let's just balance the water and toss a pound of Mrs. Wages into the topoff barrel. I've got a shelf for my test kits, and a supply of pickling lime, and I'm good.

And the tank is getting happier. My test piece of Montipora is ragged and suffering from a Turbo snail's loving pass, but alive and one bit is looking good; and my experimental rbta is increasingly happy. So the question of stony or softie is still up in the air. Snails are thriving and fish are fine.

I may go mixed. That's a 100 gallon tank and kalk can carry a 100 g mixed reef pretty well. The fact this tank is a yard deep means the corals can sort themselves into light-loving and not, if I just carefully lodge the stony coral up nearest the lights.


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Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.
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Unread 06/10/2019, 05:38 AM   #5
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Great information!...


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Unread 06/23/2019, 05:25 PM   #6
allendehl
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Oh wow. Bible chapter right here. Question, would BRS Soda Ash work for the maintenance dosing?

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Unread 06/24/2019, 02:44 PM   #7
pmaloy
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@Sk8r - I want to give this method a try on my new tank. What would you recommend to raise the Mag and the alk while using this method?


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Unread 06/24/2019, 08:38 PM   #8
Sk8r
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Not sure about soda ash: ask in Reef Chemistry. I'm not a chemist. I just did grunt work in a lab.

Re how to raise mg and alk, start with mg and just add a little every day until it rises. Takes 24 hours to get an accurate test. DO your alk next, same way, then the cal, all one at a time and with 24 hour wait period to get an accurate reading. There are probably ways to go faster, but just take it easy and be sure. You need a number based test like Salifert, etc.


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Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.
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Unread 06/25/2019, 09:57 AM   #9
Travelingjunk84
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Damn I was dosing all 3 in the same day. No wonder my corals were ****ed

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Unread 06/26/2019, 06:32 PM   #10
Sk8r
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Ow! Also, if you dose alk and cal together cal can precipitate out, complicating matters even further. Do separate them by about a day. NOthing is going to go too wrong in 24 hours' waiting.


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Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.
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Unread 06/26/2019, 07:56 PM   #11
Travelingjunk84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sk8r View Post
Ow! Also, if you dose alk and cal together cal can precipitate out, complicating matters even further. Do separate them by about a day. NOthing is going to go too wrong in 24 hours' waiting.
I've lost 3 sps in the past week. That could be the cause. I was also dosing nitrates. I left for a week and came back to low numbers. Might have raised too quickly. Shitty shitty shitty

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Unread 06/28/2019, 08:24 AM   #12
Sk8r
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Ow. The 'old way,' of dosing the 3 majors is fairly safe, unless you have (an expired test, (dose or test too close to the lat addition, or (don't mix with water for the addition and dump on a thing you want to keep. Tanks with sumps are way safer in the third instance.

Speed even in a good direction can be a problem.

I'm hoping this IS what took out your 3 specimens. If so, easy fix.


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Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.
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