Help with sump design and skimmer choice

gobucky · 07/26/2016, 10:46 PM

Hi, I'm new here. I currently have a 40 breeder about 5 years old with no sump. I'm upgrading to a sump but have some questions I'm struggling with. I'm building a bigger stand so I can use my spare 40 breeder as a sump. I'm looking at the reef octopus classic INT skimmer.
http://www.marinedepot.com/Reef_Octo...PSISNW-vi.html
It says it's pump draws 90 gph. I thought you wanted flow through the sump to be 3-5 x system volume, so that would be 180 gph minimum if I have about 60 gallons total. My skimmer wouldn't be able to process that, but if I get bigger skimmers they're way too big for my system. I'm already concerned this skimmer is too big. It's rated for 60-130 gallons. Am I missing something?
The overflow I was looking at was a 700 gph max 1 1/2 " overflow from glass holes.com. They recommend it for my size tank.

My other question is how do I build my sump. I want it as simple as possible. Can I just use acrylic sheets for baffles and silicone them into my glass sump? I can't find specifics about how I should arrange my baffles. If the skimmer needs 7"" of water, I'm assuming I need the first baffle at 7""? How do I set up the other baffles an how many do I need?
Thanks

lacybiker2000 · 07/29/2016, 11:56 PM

Hi, not sure if these will come through or if this is the way you wish to go but, here it is:

https://video.search.yahoo.com/video...&hsimp=yhs-002

https://video.search.yahoo.com/video...&hsimp=yhs-002

https://video.search.yahoo.com/video...&hsimp=yhs-002

moondoggy4 · 07/31/2016, 10:33 AM

Are you talking about the 110 skimmer? if so that one will be fine. The overflow will also work from those guys.

gobucky · 08/11/2016, 09:20 PM

Thanks for the responses. I've been out of town. Yes I was talking about the 110 skimmer. It says it's rated for bigger tanks than a 40 breeder, but only says it draws 90 gph. That's where my confusion was. If my overflow is 700 gph max and my skimmer only handles 90 gph (but it's rated for 60-130 gallon tanks) do I put a valve between the two to slow flow out of the overflow, or will the skimmer just be ok?
All the stuff I'm reading about having 3-5x tank volume of flow through the sump puts me at about 160 gph which is still more than the skimmer can handle, but if I get a bigger skimmer it seems like way overkill. Am I just overthinking it? I just want to make sure I do it right the first time.
Thanks

LoganR · 08/11/2016, 10:55 PM

You don't need to plumb the skimmer into the overflow. It will draw it's own water from the sump.

gobucky · 08/12/2016, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoganR

You don't need to plumb the skimmer into the overflow. It will draw it's own water from the sump.

Right, I get that, but I just thought you were supposed to match the flow through the sump with the capacity of the skimmer so that the skimmer was essentially "processing" all of the water that flows through the sump. I 'm getting the impression that that's not the case.
So, is all I have to do is match my overflow with my return pump ( or vice versa)?
Thanks

Lsufan · 08/12/2016, 01:00 PM

Yea, I wouldn't worry about matching the flow through the sump & the skimmer. The skimmer is going to draw the same amount of water eighther way.

As far as the sump, u can use acrylic baffles but u have to make sure u cut them 3/16" to 1/4" short & somewhat wedge them in place with silicone on both sides. I would recommend using glass baffles though. They will stay in place way better then using acrylic. If u are building the sump u might as well do it rite the first time & have a sump that will last. Using acrylic baffles they will eventually work their way loose, it could be a few months or a few years but I wouldn't take the chance.

As far as baffles, I would put a over - under - over bubble trap after the skimmer section. If your skimmer recommends a 7" depth u can make the first baffle on the bubble trap 7" & that will set the depth in that section. Personally, with a 40b sump I would go ahead & make the baffles for the bubble trap 9" & put the skimmer on a stand. That way if u ever change out skimmers u will have more options because u wouldn't have to get a skimmer that is recommended to have 7" depth too. U would only have to redo the skimmer stand instead of the baffles.

Here is a couple pics of my sumps that may give u some ideas. Neither one has a fuge section. One is only a 20 long so I didn't have room for a fuge that would be big enough to do anything & the other is a 40b that I have a seperate 20 gallon fuge for so I didn't have to incorporate it into the sump. They are pretty basic but I did incorporate a sock section.image.jpg

gobucky · 08/17/2016, 08:43 PM

Okay, I got it. Thanks. I think I will do an over under over with three glass baffles at 9 inches.

gobucky · 08/17/2016, 08:54 PM

Am I understanding the head loss correctly? Based on my calculations (using the head loss calculator) I came up with 663 gallon per hour flow rate with a MD7 pump, so would I need a MD9.5 to keep up with my 700 gallon per hour maximum flow rate of my 700 gph max overflow?
Thanks

dyazdani · 08/17/2016, 09:39 PM

The 700 gph is just the amount of flow the overflow can handle. In other words, you couldn't get a return pump with flow higher than that because it couldn't drain fast enough. With a 40 B, you don't need that much flow, you were correct with the 3-5x which puts you closer to 180-200 gph on the high end.

I am setting up a tank of similar size, I chose to go with a DC pump wh extra capacity. I can simply slow it down to my liking. You also supplement the return flow with a power head in the tank so that helps also.

gobucky · 08/20/2016, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyazdani

The 700 gph is just the amount of flow the overflow can handle. In other words, you couldn't get a return pump with flow higher than that because it couldn't drain fast enough.

Ahh, that clears up my confusion. Funny how thinking about something the wrong way makes everything else so difficult. Thanks for the help

07/26/2016, 10:46 PM	#1
gobucky Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 8	Help with sump design and skimmer choice Hi, I'm new here. I currently have a 40 breeder about 5 years old with no sump. I'm upgrading to a sump but have some questions I'm struggling with. I'm building a bigger stand so I can use my spare 40 breeder as a sump. I'm looking at the reef octopus classic INT skimmer. http://www.marinedepot.com/Reef_Octo...PSISNW-vi.html It says it's pump draws 90 gph. I thought you wanted flow through the sump to be 3-5 x system volume, so that would be 180 gph minimum if I have about 60 gallons total. My skimmer wouldn't be able to process that, but if I get bigger skimmers they're way too big for my system. I'm already concerned this skimmer is too big. It's rated for 60-130 gallons. Am I missing something? The overflow I was looking at was a 700 gph max 1 1/2 " overflow from glass holes.com. They recommend it for my size tank. My other question is how do I build my sump. I want it as simple as possible. Can I just use acrylic sheets for baffles and silicone them into my glass sump? I can't find specifics about how I should arrange my baffles. If the skimmer needs 7"" of water, I'm assuming I need the first baffle at 7""? How do I set up the other baffles an how many do I need? Thanks

07/29/2016, 11:56 PM	#2
lacybiker2000 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: East Texas and Houston Posts: 68	sump/fuge building links Hi, not sure if these will come through or if this is the way you wish to go but, here it is: https://video.search.yahoo.com/video...&hsimp=yhs-002 https://video.search.yahoo.com/video...&hsimp=yhs-002 https://video.search.yahoo.com/video...&hsimp=yhs-002

07/31/2016, 10:33 AM	#3
moondoggy4 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: menifee So cal Posts: 11,042	Are you talking about the 110 skimmer? if so that one will be fine. The overflow will also work from those guys.

08/11/2016, 09:20 PM	#4
gobucky Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 8	Thanks for the responses. I've been out of town. Yes I was talking about the 110 skimmer. It says it's rated for bigger tanks than a 40 breeder, but only says it draws 90 gph. That's where my confusion was. If my overflow is 700 gph max and my skimmer only handles 90 gph (but it's rated for 60-130 gallon tanks) do I put a valve between the two to slow flow out of the overflow, or will the skimmer just be ok? All the stuff I'm reading about having 3-5x tank volume of flow through the sump puts me at about 160 gph which is still more than the skimmer can handle, but if I get a bigger skimmer it seems like way overkill. Am I just overthinking it? I just want to make sure I do it right the first time. Thanks

08/11/2016, 10:55 PM	#5
LoganR Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico Posts: 18	You don't need to plumb the skimmer into the overflow. It will draw it's own water from the sump.

08/12/2016, 01:00 PM	#7
Lsufan Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Baton Rouge Posts: 1,410	Yea, I wouldn't worry about matching the flow through the sump & the skimmer. The skimmer is going to draw the same amount of water eighther way. As far as the sump, u can use acrylic baffles but u have to make sure u cut them 3/16" to 1/4" short & somewhat wedge them in place with silicone on both sides. I would recommend using glass baffles though. They will stay in place way better then using acrylic. If u are building the sump u might as well do it rite the first time & have a sump that will last. Using acrylic baffles they will eventually work their way loose, it could be a few months or a few years but I wouldn't take the chance. As far as baffles, I would put a over - under - over bubble trap after the skimmer section. If your skimmer recommends a 7" depth u can make the first baffle on the bubble trap 7" & that will set the depth in that section. Personally, with a 40b sump I would go ahead & make the baffles for the bubble trap 9" & put the skimmer on a stand. That way if u ever change out skimmers u will have more options because u wouldn't have to get a skimmer that is recommended to have 7" depth too. U would only have to redo the skimmer stand instead of the baffles. Here is a couple pics of my sumps that may give u some ideas. Neither one has a fuge section. One is only a 20 long so I didn't have room for a fuge that would be big enough to do anything & the other is a 40b that I have a seperate 20 gallon fuge for so I didn't have to incorporate it into the sump. They are pretty basic but I did incorporate a sock section.image.jpg

08/17/2016, 08:43 PM	#8
gobucky Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 8	Okay, I got it. Thanks. I think I will do an over under over with three glass baffles at 9 inches.

08/17/2016, 08:54 PM	#9
gobucky Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 8	Am I understanding the head loss correctly? Based on my calculations (using the head loss calculator) I came up with 663 gallon per hour flow rate with a MD7 pump, so would I need a MD9.5 to keep up with my 700 gallon per hour maximum flow rate of my 700 gph max overflow? Thanks

08/17/2016, 09:39 PM	#10
dyazdani Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: New York Posts: 199	The 700 gph is just the amount of flow the overflow can handle. In other words, you couldn't get a return pump with flow higher than that because it couldn't drain fast enough. With a 40 B, you don't need that much flow, you were correct with the 3-5x which puts you closer to 180-200 gph on the high end. I am setting up a tank of similar size, I chose to go with a DC pump wh extra capacity. I can simply slow it down to my liking. You also supplement the return flow with a power head in the tank so that helps also.