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Old 08/21/2019, 06:28 PM   #1
reachjohnnyliu
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disease or physical damage?

I can't tell if this is some kind of disease or just the fish got banged up on the aquascape. It's not red in color, more of a gray/silver. Any ideas?


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Old 08/21/2019, 06:29 PM   #2
reachjohnnyliu
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Fish is eating just fine


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Old 08/22/2019, 04:49 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by reachjohnnyliu View Post
Fish is eating just fine
I'm no disease expert but that could be the first signs of Uronema marinum which Chromis are fairly well known for.


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Old 08/22/2019, 08:49 AM   #4
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I'm no disease expert but that could be the first signs of Uronema marinum which Chromis are fairly well known for.
Agreed. You will want to get some chloroquine phosphate and treat at 80mg per gallon asap


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Old 08/22/2019, 09:10 AM   #5
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well this sucks. i treated the fish w/ metro for 13 days in QT.


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Old 08/22/2019, 01:20 PM   #6
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well this sucks. i treated the fish w/ metro for 13 days in QT.
As stated above by others, with a Chromis you should assume Uronema until proven otherwise.
I would start with a formalin bath and then treat in a sterile tank with CP in combination with broadband antibiotics. The tank has to be sterile as the bacteria present in established tanks have been shown to break down medication like CP in a matter of hours.

Also, if it is indeed Uronema, you likely have infected your entire display system. Since Uronema is an opportunistic parasite that can live just fine without fish, a fallow period will have no effect. The only way to rid the system of it is to sterilise the entire system.

BTW, were the 13 days just the treatment or the entire quarantine period?
In case it was the latter it wasn't even remotely enough. 2 months (60 days) should be the minimum QT period.

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Old 08/22/2019, 01:36 PM   #7
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13 days was just the metro treatment. I was also treating w/ copper at the sametime, so i went an additional 15-20 days w/ copper only.


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Old 08/22/2019, 06:51 PM   #8
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13 days was just the metro treatment. I was also treating w/ copper at the sametime, so i went an additional 15-20 days w/ copper only.
Where you treating against something specific or just medicating prophylactically?
Copper does little to nothing against a good number of protozoan parasites and Uronema is one of those. To make matters worse, copper weakens the fish's immune system and makes the fish more susceptible to infections. That's why it is generally a poor choice as a prophylactic chemotherapy during the QT process.


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Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
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Old 08/22/2019, 08:31 PM   #9
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i was treating prophylactically. i plan on treating all my fish prophylactically w/ metro, general cure and copper. that seems to be the safest way to keep the major diseases out of the tank.

the spot is starting to turn red so i'm guessing it's Uronema. So now the question is, if I choose to not sterilize the tank, is pretty much every fish I add to teh tank doomed to get Uronema?


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Old 08/23/2019, 12:38 AM   #10
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There is fairly good chance that the whole system is now infected with Uronema.
Are there any other fish in the tank?

As for copper - due to its immunosuppressant effect I would strongly advise against using it as a prophylactic treatment.

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Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
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Old 08/23/2019, 01:04 AM   #11
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There is no other fish in the tank. How do you treat for Ick prophylactically without copper? CP wont work for me since I haven't found a veet that'll perscribe it.


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Old 08/23/2019, 09:27 AM   #12
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There is no other fish in the tank. How do you treat for Ick prophylactically without copper? CP wont work for me since I haven't found a veet that'll perscribe it.
Your local vet will provide a script if you tell them what it is for and have a idea on how much CP you need. Fishman chemical sells CP but is currently waiting on the FDA before they can sell any?? At least thats what I was told by them 2 weeks ago when I tried to purchase some from them. There is a listing on Ebay from a guy in Michigan that sells it, and it worked for me in a pinch just a FYI. I have no idea how pure it is but it worked none the less.


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Old 08/23/2019, 09:28 AM   #13
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humble.fish has a great write up on CP and tips for if its being dosed in a established QT/system.


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Fish are not disposable commodities, but a worthwhile investment that can be maintained and enjoyed for many years, providing one is willing to take the time to understand their requirements and needs

Current Tank Info: 625g, 220g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 3 MP60s, MP40. Several QTs
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Old 08/23/2019, 11:40 AM   #14
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... How do you treat for Ick prophylactically without copper? CP wont work for me since I haven't found a veet that'll perscribe it.
TTM or Hyposalinity or a combination of both work quite well against Cryptocaryon (=Ick).
CP would be the treatment of choice against Amyloodinium (=Velvet).
Formalin or H2O2 baths (in combination with a tank transfer!) are the primary measure against Brooklynella, Trichodina, Uronema, and work to some degree even against Amyloodinium.
PraziPro or Hyposalinity work against most marine Monoganean skin and gill parasites ("Flukes").

The key for CP is to use it in a sterile tank. In an "established" tank (=cycled tank) the bacteria will degrade CP within days or even hours and make it ineffective. This is most likely one of the primary reasons for many of the reports on CP treatments being ineffective. Same applies BTW also to Praziquantel (PraziPro) as shown in this study: Praziquantel degradation in marine aquarium water.
For that reason treatments with these medications are best done during TTM.


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Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...

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Old 08/23/2019, 11:44 AM   #15
reachjohnnyliu
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i'm just not going to add chromis to the system anymore. going forward how do i sterilize the DT? I was originally thinking just throw some bleach into the tank, but i've read bleach can damage the tank/equipment if left on for more than 15 min?


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Old 08/23/2019, 11:58 AM   #16
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Best would be to break down the tank to sterilize the rocks in a separate container. You can use bleach or NaOH (available on Amazon - it's used in soap making) to sterilize the rocks. If your rock was bought dry and there are no zoas on it you could also just boil it in plain water, though that is only feasible for smaller tanks/rocks.
The equipment and tank can be washed with a bleach solution and then dried to sterilize it.


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Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
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Old 08/23/2019, 01:31 PM   #17
reachjohnnyliu
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What a way to start my fish tank. first fish i added and i even QT'ed the thing and I get the only parasite that can't be eradicated without tearing down the tank.


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Old 08/23/2019, 01:40 PM   #18
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What a way to start my fish tank. first fish i added and i even QT'ed the thing and I get the only parasite that can't be eradicated without tearing down the tank.
Better at the start of a new tank than after you have a reef full of corals - then it would really hurt.


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Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
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Old 08/23/2019, 06:27 PM   #19
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so updated photo. this is def looking more like uronema to me.


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