Help for a new reefer - 2 part, trace elements and other stuff

Punchanello · 02/19/2018, 07:26 AM

Hi all,

It's nearly time to fill my first reef tank. It's time to choose salt mix and think about dosing cal, alk and mag. Just about every salt and dosing regimen I look at contains trace elements and other stuff (I'll just call it stuff from here on in). And then most of the manufacturers of those products also recommend dosing additional stuff.

This adds a bit of confusion for me.

To start with, you're adding additional amounts of stuff with your 2 part based on your calcium and alkalinity consumption. So there's also all this other stuff going in without any consideration as to what rate it will be consumed. The manufacturers claim they are matching sea water or to just trust they know what they are doing. Isn't this a bit arbitrary?

My second issue is, assuming all this stuff is consumed at different rates, or even not at all, how can you be sure it's not just going to keep building up in the system to toxic levels? Water changes?

I'm guessing these companies think that with all the complexity and bells and whistles people will feel they are buying the best thing for their reefs. For me it just becomes overwhelming.

Am I on solid ground if I ditch the brand name dosing regimen and start my tank with Randy's Recipe?

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Pslreefer · 02/19/2018, 08:37 AM

Why not keep it simple. Use any brand salt that and test weekly for ca, alk, and mag. Until you really start to fill up your tank with corals you will not even need to dose anything for quite some time. Water changes will keep everything balanced.

bitwise · 02/19/2018, 02:05 PM

I agree with the poster above. Keep it as simple as possible to start (no dosing). The trace "stuff" in the water and the calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium will be replaced by water changes.

I dose alk and cal with dosing pumps and magnesium (infrequently) by hand. I also have a 43 gallon tank with several small stony coral colonies. The rate of consumption is going to depend on water volume and the number/size of your corals.

Jcohen9999 · 02/19/2018, 03:43 PM

What they said. And never dose anything you are not ready to start testing for.

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nycjwi · 02/19/2018, 03:44 PM

I sort of agree with the guys above however, there is nothing simple about this stuff and thats what keeps it interesting. it all depends on how much and how quickly you plan to add corals. The goal here is to keep your ALK as stable as possible (8-9). The problem with relying on water changes is that it will create large swings if you are not dosing. I think the triton supplements other methods is pretty bullet proof but you do need a 4 part doser. if you are serious about having a successful reef tank might as well get it now. I also don't think all salts are created equal. red sea or tropic marin are good and make sure you are mixing with ROI water. I would say that before you start adding a bunch of corals make sure you have your Nitrate and PH stable.

Punchanello · 02/19/2018, 05:57 PM

I definitely intend to get a doser sooner rather than later.

I guess I'm just questioning the wisdom of an all in approach re: dosing beyond the three staples right off the bat.

My plan having read the helpful replies is to dose randy's recipe when there is starting to be some uptake in the tank. I think I can learn a lot from that excercise. Once I understand the basic needs of my tank I'll have a look at the various commercial 2 part and balling method products. At least I'll have some idea of quantities etc.

What is the current thinking on trace elements etc? Don't dose what you can't test for seems wise, but now that ICP is in play, we can virtually test for everything. Is there evidence that trace elements improve health, colour and growth?

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bertoni · 02/19/2018, 06:52 PM

There are a few items that you might consider dosing, in addition to calcium and alkalinity. Magnesium often is fine just with water changes. Iron and silica can be useful in some circumstances. This article might help:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-04/rhf/index.php

Pslreefer · 02/19/2018, 07:40 PM

Water changes do not create large swings, that is why it is ideal to use water changes to keep stability, dosing is where people get into problems.

02/19/2018, 07:26 AM	#1
Punchanello Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Australia Posts: 170	Help for a new reefer - 2 part, trace elements and other stuff Hi all, It's nearly time to fill my first reef tank. It's time to choose salt mix and think about dosing cal, alk and mag. Just about every salt and dosing regimen I look at contains trace elements and other stuff (I'll just call it stuff from here on in). And then most of the manufacturers of those products also recommend dosing additional stuff. This adds a bit of confusion for me. To start with, you're adding additional amounts of stuff with your 2 part based on your calcium and alkalinity consumption. So there's also all this other stuff going in without any consideration as to what rate it will be consumed. The manufacturers claim they are matching sea water or to just trust they know what they are doing. Isn't this a bit arbitrary? My second issue is, assuming all this stuff is consumed at different rates, or even not at all, how can you be sure it's not just going to keep building up in the system to toxic levels? Water changes? I'm guessing these companies think that with all the complexity and bells and whistles people will feel they are buying the best thing for their reefs. For me it just becomes overwhelming. Am I on solid ground if I ditch the brand name dosing regimen and start my tank with Randy's Recipe? Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk __________________ Don't ask me, I'm new here. My tank build: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2647315

02/19/2018, 02:05 PM	#3
bitwise Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: CT Posts: 316	I agree with the poster above. Keep it as simple as possible to start (no dosing). The trace "stuff" in the water and the calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium will be replaced by water changes. I dose alk and cal with dosing pumps and magnesium (infrequently) by hand. I also have a 43 gallon tank with several small stony coral colonies. The rate of consumption is going to depend on water volume and the number/size of your corals. __________________ Red Sea Reefer 170 - SPS focus http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2583520

02/19/2018, 05:57 PM	#6
Punchanello Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Australia Posts: 170	I definitely intend to get a doser sooner rather than later. I guess I'm just questioning the wisdom of an all in approach re: dosing beyond the three staples right off the bat. My plan having read the helpful replies is to dose randy's recipe when there is starting to be some uptake in the tank. I think I can learn a lot from that excercise. Once I understand the basic needs of my tank I'll have a look at the various commercial 2 part and balling method products. At least I'll have some idea of quantities etc. What is the current thinking on trace elements etc? Don't dose what you can't test for seems wise, but now that ICP is in play, we can virtually test for everything. Is there evidence that trace elements improve health, colour and growth? Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk __________________ Don't ask me, I'm new here. My tank build: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2647315 Last edited by Punchanello; 02/19/2018 at 06:16 PM.

02/19/2018, 06:52 PM	#7
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	There are a few items that you might consider dosing, in addition to calcium and alkalinity. Magnesium often is fine just with water changes. Iron and silica can be useful in some circumstances. This article might help: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-04/rhf/index.php __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

02/19/2018, 07:40 PM	#8
Pslreefer In Memoriam Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Port St Lucie, FL Posts: 597	Help for a new reefer - 2 part, trace elements and other stuff Water changes do not create large swings, that is why it is ideal to use water changes to keep stability, dosing is where people get into problems.

02/19/2018, 08:37 AM	#2
Pslreefer In Memoriam Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Port St Lucie, FL Posts: 597	Why not keep it simple. Use any brand salt that and test weekly for ca, alk, and mag. Until you really start to fill up your tank with corals you will not even need to dose anything for quite some time. Water changes will keep everything balanced.

02/19/2018, 03:43 PM	#4
Jcohen9999 Overkill Reefer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Syosset, NY Posts: 740	What they said. And never dose anything you are not ready to start testing for. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

02/19/2018, 03:44 PM	#5
nycjwi Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 28	I sort of agree with the guys above however, there is nothing simple about this stuff and thats what keeps it interesting. it all depends on how much and how quickly you plan to add corals. The goal here is to keep your ALK as stable as possible (8-9). The problem with relying on water changes is that it will create large swings if you are not dosing. I think the triton supplements other methods is pretty bullet proof but you do need a 4 part doser. if you are serious about having a successful reef tank might as well get it now. I also don't think all salts are created equal. red sea or tropic marin are good and make sure you are mixing with ROI water. I would say that before you start adding a bunch of corals make sure you have your Nitrate and PH stable.