Anyone gone back to halides?

[Capt_Cully]

I've had 2 successful reefs with Radions but I've never been able to reproduce the level of success I had with MH/T5. Now I understand there's a certain level of snobbery as there is in most niche hobbies, so I'm not trying to judge or be judged. Time, money, and circumstances change for us all, and I'm not as fastidious as I used to be. Perhaps that is partly or even largely to blame. That aside....


Has anyone gone MH to LED and then back to MH?

[Bpb]

I went T5HO -> MH -> LED -> T5HO.

I think there are plenty of examples of successful tanks with any but more than all that I think you should use what you were happiest with. Regardless of what works for others. In my case t5ho just worked the best. Best growth and colors for me. That’s not the same for everyone. But if you liked mh more. Selling those radions should pay for some MH’s and then some if you felt so inclined


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[finrod2]

I struggled with Hydra LEDs on my 375, I moved to MH/T5 about 3 months ago and the results have been night and day improvement. All my SPS frags have returning color after looking pale with LED.

[rtparty]

In my time I've gone from PC to MH to T5 to LED to T5/LED and now MH/T5.

My most successful tank (in my eyes) was straight T5 but I attribute that to the tank and setup more than the light.

My absolute favorite tank to look at is my current tank with MH/T5. I'm not into bashing other technologies but I've never been blown away by an all LED lit tank when I see them in person. That's not a jab at LED. My eyes just don't like them. I always thought I was a little crazy until my wife and I walked into a LFS and she immediately said, "Why aren't LEDs as beautiful as our light?" She knows very little about all the lighting technologies. That solidified what I've always felt.

[jda]

90% of the higher end SPS (mostly acropora) tanks near me have some sort of MH on them. Most have some T5s for supplement too. About half of them bought in to LED and have abandoned them.

If I thought that Radions would light my reef better, I would buy as many of them as it took, even it if was 12-16 for my 240 - money would be no object. As it stands, I use my Halides.

[watchguy123]

I use metal halides, t5s and as of a few years ago added reefbrite xho for dawn/dusk. But I am seeing high end vendors and lots of retailers who have successfully switched away from metal halides. The heat and expense of halides make them challenging to keep using. Although there are lots of us diehards around, if I ever do another tank, likely it will be different lighting than metal halides.

[sparker1663]

yep - radium halides lifted my tank ten fold. Still run GHL mitras to give some ramping and colour pop, but have 2x400w halides on for 6 hours a day for a boost.

[jda]

Be careful when comparing what "high end vendors" and "articles" and "studies" are out there - lots of them get free stuff and are bankrolled by EcoTech. Even some reefers get free stuff from companies with the agreement that they will post about the stuff.

It is best to take notice of what hobbyists choose when they have to spend their own money... and especially high end reefers.

[WLachnit]

Originally Posted by sparker1663

yep - radium halides lifted my tank ten fold. Still run GHL mitras to give some ramping and colour pop, but have 2x400w halides on for 6 hours a day for a boost.

Beautiful FTS. What is the coral is the big green one in the middle?

[tmc1313]

I've gone from PC -> MH -> T5's -> LED's -> back to MH -> and now I've just started back with Led's to see if I can do any better this time on a new build. So far, IME, MH has been the winner for me personally. That being said, I'm determined to try and make Led's work for me this time.

[lynchmob3000]

Less work. I just don't get the amount of colors with led thatI can easily achieve with t5. Set and forget and if you get bored, change the bulb combo.


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[biecacka]

I think that is a large part of peoples frustration ( i know it was for me), the tinkering needed with LED to get a color you like then hope it is the right spectrum. Maybe if I had Kessil or Radion it would have been easier. But I love the halide plug and play idea. So simple.

corey

[Bpb]

I’m curious as to what percentage of metal halide and t5ho bulb manufacturing sales go toward reef tanks? I mean at the build level. I’m sure Hamilton and ati don’t have their own bulb manufacturing operations going. Don’t they basically order them from one of the fewer, larger bulb giants and just specify their phosphor formula or spectrum they want? Do we even make a dent in their overall bottom line?


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[murphreef]

Yup went back to MH over my small cube.

Tried a LED fixture first but could not stand all the variables and control-ability. I could not figure out if I had it set right or not in order to grow anything.

I like simple On/Off and MH works for me!

[pisanoal]

Kinda sorta on topic. I've been doing a lot of lighting research lately and came across this video of Sanjay Joshi's reef. All radions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaovKr6v-cM

Not to spark a MH, T5, LED debate, just thought it was very interesting to see his sps reef running purely LEDs (and looking fantastic).

I would run MH if not for the heat issue. I love the look.

[Jimmy james]

I’ve never had MH, tried T5 which worked well then went to led. I have used leds for about 3 years now but I’ve never been able to keep a decent montipora forest fire, red planet acropora or a strawberry shortcake acropora. I’m really considering trying MH to see if they make a difference. Any suggestions for a 900mm X 500mm X 600mm tank?


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[sparker1663]

Originally Posted by WLachnit

Beautiful FTS. What is the coral is the big green one in the middle?

It's what we in Australia call "Dallas"

https://************.com/2017/05/24/...aghorn-coral/#

**edit, google dallas coral r**fbuilders**

[rtparty]

Originally Posted by Bpb

I’m curious as to what percentage of metal halide and t5ho bulb manufacturing sales go toward reef tanks? I mean at the build level. I’m sure Hamilton and ati don’t have their own bulb manufacturing operations going. Don’t they basically order them from one of the fewer, larger bulb giants and just specify their phosphor formula or spectrum they want? Do we even make a dent in their overall bottom line?


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Correct. None of them produce their own bulbs that I'm aware of. I believe Sylvania makes ATI and KZ bulbs. I doubt they're even a drop in their bucket.

I would bet industrial installations are by far the largest. Horticulture is also far larger than our hobby. Outside of reefing, what would anyone need a blue or pure actinic bulb for? Maybe some blue bulbs in "farming" but that's it

[Capt_Cully]

One interesting point that a fellow local made was that he noted the people with the most success had their LEDs 2-3 feet off of the water. It certainly seemed true for the few local LED tanks I’d seen that I thought looked good.

I’m working with a canopy that I actually had made 2” sorter than traditional hoods both for aesthetics and to accommodate radions.

A couple of Hamilton pendants will still work and be easy to flip back to.

[jda]

Originally Posted by pisanoal

Kinda sorta on topic. I've been doing a lot of lighting research lately and came across this video of Sanjay Joshi's reef. All radions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaovKr6v-cM

Keep in mind that EcoTech gave them to him for free and that Jake Adams and RB are also bankrolled by EcoTech, along with a lot of "higher end" vendors and some other hobbyists that you see constantly schill for them. Dr. Joshi gave a speech at MACNA in 2015, talked about losing a lot of different kinds of coral, some never looked the same, not being able to grow some still, how there is no energy savings, but he did appreciate not having to run a chiller anymore even though his heaters make up the difference in wattage. I think that Dr. Joshi's tank is a good case study when you take all of the variables into account, but there are a lot more than in that video. You can search around for some of his articles. He will never flat out say that he loves them nor will he flat out say that he hates them - he does a pretty good job of just laying it out there for people do decide on their own if they don't get a shortened version to just prove one side or the other.

I think that UVL still makes their own bulbs and perhaps some for other people.

[jda]

Originally Posted by Jimmy james

I’ve never had MH, tried T5 which worked well then went to led. I have used leds for about 3 years now but I’ve never been able to keep a decent montipora forest fire, red planet acropora or a strawberry shortcake acropora. I’m really considering trying MH to see if they make a difference. Any suggestions for a 900mm X 500mm X 600mm tank?


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...so we are talking like 30x20x24, right? If so, I would get a pair of 150W HQI with 14K phoenix bulbs and M81 ballasts. Only 325W, or so, of electricity, very little heat, great color and the bulbs can be used for 2 years. These are oft overlooked, but great smaller/shallower tank lights.

[pisanoal]

Originally Posted by jda

Keep in mind that EcoTech gave them to him for free and that Jake Adams and RB are also bankrolled by EcoTech, along with a lot of "higher end" vendors and some other hobbyists that you see constantly schill for them. Dr. Joshi gave a speech at MACNA in 2015, talked about losing a lot of different kinds of coral, some never looked the same, not being able to grow some still, how there is no energy savings, but he did appreciate not having to run a chiller anymore even though his heaters make up the difference in wattage. I think that Dr. Joshi's tank is a good case study when you take all of the variables into account, but there are a lot more than in that video. You can search around for some of his articles. He will never flat out say that he loves them nor will he flat out say that he hates them - he does a pretty good job of just laying it out there for people do decide on their own if they don't get a shortened version to just prove one side or the other.

I think that UVL still makes their own bulbs and perhaps some for other people.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not lobbying for leds based on his tank. I won't use all leds anymore, or led dominant, T5 with led supplementation is where ill stay. I didnt know about him losing a bunch of coral when he switched and all that. I was just pointing out he has a really impressive tank run on all leds (for a couple years I believe) and came from halide. His colors look really good on what he has in there. He do remember him pointing out some coral that never recovered their color fully. As you said though, its an interesting case study.

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[Jimmy james]

Originally Posted by jda

...so we are talking like 30x20x24, right? If so, I would get a pair of 150W HQI with 14K phoenix bulbs and M81 ballasts. Only 325W, or so, of electricity, very little heat, great color and the bulbs can be used for 2 years. These are oft overlooked, but great smaller/shallower tank lights.

Great thanks for letting me know.


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[WLachnit]

Originally Posted by Capt_Cully

One interesting point that a fellow local made was that he noted the people with the most success had their LEDs 2-3 feet off of the water. It certainly seemed true for the few local LED tanks I’d seen that I thought looked good.

I’m working with a canopy that I actually had made 2” sorter than traditional hoods both for aesthetics and to accommodate radions.

A couple of Hamilton pendants will still work and be easy to flip back to.

Really...2 to 3 ft??

[Capt_Cully]

Yes really.