Wild Onyx Clownfish. Take 3 - Page 6

ThRoewer · 04/30/2015, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrionN

The Pelvic fins of both pairs are deformed and small.

I didn't even notice that detail - they just seemed off to me.

I wouldn't have taken these for free - let alone pay 250 + shipping.

CoralsAddiction · 04/30/2015, 11:53 AM

Picking up another wild onyx.

ThRoewer · 04/30/2015, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoralsAddiction

Picking up another wild onyx.

That's a nice one!

CoralsAddiction · 04/30/2015, 02:37 PM

I now know exactly what killed my clowns. It was Formalin. I just put the new wild caught onyx clown through a formalin bath using chucks addiction as a reference for administering the bath. Instead of dumping 1 teaspoon (5 ml) into a container filled with one gallon of DT water, I dosed 1 ml at a time every 2-3 mins on average. As soon as I got to about 4.5ml-5ml mark, the new clown became agitated and tried jumping out of the bucket. These were the same symptoms my deceased pair of clowns showed the night before dying. The dose administered as recommended in Chucks Addiction article was too strong for my clowns. The formalin bath had to be aborted 35-40 mins in. The plan was to go 60 mins but the clown could not handle it. At no other point did the deceased pair of clowns showed the same symptoms as described above. Hence I concluded that Formalin was the leading cause of their death.
Also, keep in mind that the deceased pair did fine for 2 nights with Quick-Ich X that has 22% formalin. They died when I removed the medication with carbon and a large water change, and subsequently dosed the QT with 37% formalin.
Moral of the story: Treat with caution

CoralsAddiction · 04/30/2015, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThRoewer

That's a nice one!

Thanks. I just hope it lives. My success rate is now higher with Gigs and Magnificas than with these wild Onyx clowns.

CoralsAddiction · 04/30/2015, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoralsAddiction

I just hope it lives.

I doubt this clown lives. It has been less than two hours and it's all covered in white slime. Currently the QT is dosed with Maracyn 2 and Coppersafe. Both are Mardel products and are supposed to be safe for concurrent use.

DasCamel · 04/30/2015, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoralsAddiction

I doubt this clown lives. It has been less than two hours and it's all covered in white slime. Currently the QT is dosed with Maracyn 2 and Coppersafe. Both are Mardel products and are supposed to be safe for concurrent use.

Where are you getting them from? Do any of the other of the fish store show signs of anything?

Are they going into a clean sterile QT to start right? Matched salinity to the store?

CoralsAddiction · 04/30/2015, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DasCamel

Where are you getting them from? Do any of the other of the fish store show signs of anything?

Are they going into a clean sterile QT to start right? Matched salinity to the store?

I've tried 3 different vendors. The current one was straight from whole seller...did not spend a second at a fish store. Even a black true percula Solomon pair that came from Quality Marine was no good. I am starting to believe it's a collection/transportation thing. Yes sterile QT with DT water with Dr. Tims beneficial bacteria added each time as precaution.

CoralsAddiction · 04/30/2015, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DasCamel

Do any of the other of the fish store show signs of anything?

yes almost all show sign of disease and eventually perish within a week or two even at stores that run copper in their systems.

ThRoewer · 04/30/2015, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoralsAddiction

I now know exactly what killed my clowns. It was Formalin. I just put the new wild caught onyx clown through a formalin bath using chucks addiction as a reference for administering the bath. Instead of dumping 1 teaspoon (5 ml) into a container filled with one gallon of DT water, I dosed 1 ml at a time every 2-3 mins on average. As soon as I got to about 4.5ml-5ml mark, the new clown became agitated and tried jumping out of the bucket. These were the same symptoms my deceased pair of clowns showed the night before dying. The dose administered as recommended in Chucks Addiction article was too strong for my clowns. The formalin bath had to be aborted 35-40 mins in. The plan was to go 60 mins but the clown could not handle it. At no other point did the deceased pair of clowns showed the same symptoms as described above. Hence I concluded that Formalin was the leading cause of their death.
Also, keep in mind that the deceased pair did fine for 2 nights with Quick-Ich X that has 22% formalin. They died when I removed the medication with carbon and a large water change, and subsequently dosed the QT with 37% formalin.
Moral of the story: Treat with caution

WAAAYYY TOO MUCH FORMALIN!!!!
2.6 ml on a gallon max for dips. I do only 1.3ml on a gallon to be on the safe side

DasCamel · 04/30/2015, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThRoewer

WAAAYYY TOO MUCH FORMALIN!!!!
2.6 ml on a gallon max for dips. I do only 1.3ml on a gallon to be on the safe side

Where are you getting the numbers from, just curious?

I've added 100 ppm and 200 ppm for fish already used to formalin w/o issues. 2ml per gallon at 37% as a start shouldn't be a problem. I still would start with 30 minutes max. They'll get relief far quicker than that, it just won't eradicate all the parasite.

A sick fish acclimating from shipping will be far more sensitive. I did a bath for my clown under the same circumstances as a precaution from the wholeseller but it was tank bred. A lot more used to our systems.

Goodluck again....

ThRoewer · 04/30/2015, 05:10 PM

2.6 ml of formalin 37% per gallon (0.68 ml/l) gives you 250 ppm. (maximum dip strength)
1.3 ml of formalin 37% per gallon (0.34 ml/l) gives you 125 ppm. (Fishvet Formalin MS dip instruction)

You need to consider in the calculations that 1 ml formalin 37% has actually only 0.37 ml formalin in it.

Jrsdaddy · 04/30/2015, 06:13 PM

This pair was on divers den today but where sold before I could check the price.

CoralsAddiction · 04/30/2015, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jrsdaddy

This pair was on divers den today but where sold before I could check the price.

The pair went for $280.

CoralsAddiction · 04/30/2015, 06:38 PM

I talked to a fish store owner about fish from Solomon Islands. His store mostly caters to predator tanks. The store carries lots of eels, triggers, tangs, puffers, groupers, etc. the owner told me that Solomon Islands have some really cool triggers he used to get. But most fish that came from Solomon died on him. So he stopped buying Solomon fish.

CoralsAddiction · 04/30/2015, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DasCamel

A sick fish acclimating from shipping will be far more sensitive. I did a bath for my clown under the same circumstances as a precaution from the wholeseller but it was tank bred. A lot more used to our systems.

Goodluck again....

Thanks. I actually never had a tank raised clown come down with brook and never had to do formalin dips on captive bred ones. Wild...Sololom in particular is a whole different story. Sigh.

CoralsAddiction · 04/30/2015, 06:57 PM

On a brighter note my true percs are doing fantastic. I'm loving the little black true perc. Its so cute and so little.

CoralsAddiction · 04/30/2015, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThRoewer

WAAAYYY TOO MUCH FORMALIN!!!!
2.6 ml on a gallon max for dips. I do only 1.3ml on a gallon to be on the safe side

If you look at Chucks page he recommends up to 2 teaspoons (10ml) per gallon for dips. No way wild clowns stressed from shipping can handle that much formalin.

CoralsAddiction · 04/30/2015, 08:28 PM

If anyone reading this thread has to deal with Brooklynella and does not have formalin available, I would recommend using Hikari's Quick-Ich X or Seachem's Paraguard...and Quick Cure if it ever comes back on the market.

ThRoewer · 04/30/2015, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoralsAddiction

If you look at Chucks page he recommends up to 2 teaspoons (10ml) per gallon for dips. No way wild clowns stressed from shipping can handle that much formalin.

10ml of formalin 37% contain actually 3.7 ml pure formalin.

One gallon is 3785 ml but let’s just round it down to 3700 ml for even numbers.

3.7 ml / 3700 ml = 0.001 = 1000 ppm

2 ml formalin 37% on a gallon should give you about 200 ppm

Someone check if I calculated this right.

CoralsAddiction · 04/30/2015, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThRoewer

10ml of formalin 37% contain actually 3.7 ml pure formalin.

One gallon is 3785 ml but let’s just round it down to 3700 ml for even numbers.

3.7 ml / 3700 ml = 0.001 = 1000 ppm

2 ml formalin 37% on a gallon should give you about 200 ppm

Someone check if I calculated this right.

I am leaning towards using the meds I listed above. We know the ingredient is there (Seachem uses a different ingredient) and the meds presumably lab tested for continuous use in an aquarium. So that eliminates all the guesswork as to dosage that can be safely yet effectively used to treat a sick fish. Not saying you are wrong or that formalin baths have not worked for you. I just find it a little easier and safer to go the other route next time it happens.

DasCamel · 04/30/2015, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThRoewer

2.6 ml of formalin 37% per gallon (0.68 ml/l) gives you 250 ppm. (maximum dip strength)
1.3 ml of formalin 37% per gallon (0.34 ml/l) gives you 125 ppm. (Fishvet Formalin MS dip instruction)

You need to consider in the calculations that 1 ml formalin 37% has actually only 0.37 ml formalin in it.

Wow. I'm glad I never used Chuck's numbers, just the ppm calculated from the manufacturers info. Thanks for the info.

DasCamel · 04/30/2015, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoralsAddiction

If anyone reading this thread has to deal with Brooklynella and does not have formalin available, I would recommend using Hikari's Quick-Ich X or Seachem's Paraguard...and Quick Cure if it ever comes back on the market.

Did they pull Quick Cure?

CoralsAddiction · 05/01/2015, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DasCamel

Did they pull Quick Cure?

Yes. Other than a few private sellers on eBay and Amazon nobody else sells it anymore. Two of the largest dry goods distributors, All Seas Marine and Central Pet do not stock it anymore. So my local contacts that shop there were not able to get it for me.

CoralsAddiction · 05/01/2015, 12:44 AM

The new Onyx clown seems to be doing a little better. He is not agitated or stressed. Just chilling in the corner of the tank. The water is a little cloudy. It's a bacteria bloom. I add 10ml of Dr. Tims nitrifying bacteria to my 10 gallon QT every time I set it up after sterilization.

04/30/2015, 02:37 PM	#129
CoralsAddiction Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: L.A./Tahoe Posts: 6,003	Very Important Observation I now know exactly what killed my clowns. It was Formalin. I just put the new wild caught onyx clown through a formalin bath using chucks addiction as a reference for administering the bath. Instead of dumping 1 teaspoon (5 ml) into a container filled with one gallon of DT water, I dosed 1 ml at a time every 2-3 mins on average. As soon as I got to about 4.5ml-5ml mark, the new clown became agitated and tried jumping out of the bucket. These were the same symptoms my deceased pair of clowns showed the night before dying. The dose administered as recommended in Chucks Addiction article was too strong for my clowns. The formalin bath had to be aborted 35-40 mins in. The plan was to go 60 mins but the clown could not handle it. At no other point did the deceased pair of clowns showed the same symptoms as described above. Hence I concluded that Formalin was the leading cause of their death. Also, keep in mind that the deceased pair did fine for 2 nights with Quick-Ich X that has 22% formalin. They died when I removed the medication with carbon and a large water change, and subsequently dosed the QT with 37% formalin. Moral of the story: Treat with caution Last edited by CoralsAddiction; 04/30/2015 at 02:44 PM.

04/30/2015, 05:10 PM	#137
ThRoewer Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Fremont, CA Posts: 9,555	2.6 ml of formalin 37% per gallon (0.68 ml/l) gives you 250 ppm. (maximum dip strength) 1.3 ml of formalin 37% per gallon (0.34 ml/l) gives you 125 ppm. (Fishvet Formalin MS dip instruction) You need to consider in the calculations that 1 ml formalin 37% has actually only 0.37 ml formalin in it. __________________ Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio 3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...

04/30/2015, 08:28 PM	#144
CoralsAddiction Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: L.A./Tahoe Posts: 6,003	If anyone reading this thread has to deal with Brooklynella and does not have formalin available, I would recommend using Hikari's Quick-Ich X or Seachem's Paraguard...and Quick Cure if it ever comes back on the market. Last edited by CoralsAddiction; 04/30/2015 at 08:37 PM.

04/30/2015, 11:53 AM	#127
CoralsAddiction Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: L.A./Tahoe Posts: 6,003	Picking up another wild onyx.

04/30/2015, 06:38 PM	#140
CoralsAddiction Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: L.A./Tahoe Posts: 6,003	I talked to a fish store owner about fish from Solomon Islands. His store mostly caters to predator tanks. The store carries lots of eels, triggers, tangs, puffers, groupers, etc. the owner told me that Solomon Islands have some really cool triggers he used to get. But most fish that came from Solomon died on him. So he stopped buying Solomon fish.

04/30/2015, 06:57 PM	#142
CoralsAddiction Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: L.A./Tahoe Posts: 6,003	On a brighter note my true percs are doing fantastic. I'm loving the little black true perc. Its so cute and so little.

05/01/2015, 12:44 AM	#150
CoralsAddiction Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: L.A./Tahoe Posts: 6,003	The new Onyx clown seems to be doing a little better. He is not agitated or stressed. Just chilling in the corner of the tank. The water is a little cloudy. It's a bacteria bloom. I add 10ml of Dr. Tims nitrifying bacteria to my 10 gallon QT every time I set it up after sterilization.