Reef Central Online Community

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Reef Discussion
Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Closed Thread
Thread Tools
Unread 09/08/2008, 01:01 PM   #101
Tswifty
Registered Member
 
Tswifty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Posts: 14,022
Quote:
Originally posted by capn_hylinur
have you done an estimated cost factor on this build yet?
Just estimates... It's not a pretty sight.



Last edited by Tswifty; 09/08/2008 at 01:09 PM.
Tswifty is offline  
Unread 09/08/2008, 01:02 PM   #102
Tswifty
Registered Member
 
Tswifty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Posts: 14,022
Here is the plumbing layout I'm about 90% certain I am going to go with. The green circles are the returns, the yellow circles will be two additional powerheads (Tunze or VorTech).




__________________
"Enough light? Heck I could go barebottom and grow SPS in the stand!" - DiscoReefRover
Tswifty is offline  
Unread 09/08/2008, 01:15 PM   #103
chrismunn
Registered Member
 
chrismunn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 4,200
were you able to determine if the bottom glass is tempered or not?


__________________
Marine Aquarists Association of South Texas

Austin Reef Club

PBITAWA...

Current Tank Info: 14g bio cube
chrismunn is offline  
Unread 09/08/2008, 01:21 PM   #104
Tswifty
Registered Member
 
Tswifty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Posts: 14,022
Quote:
Originally posted by Phillybean
Congrats on the find! Gonna be a sweet tank for sure!

For the closed loop, keep in mind that most tanks have a tempered bottom. If you try to drill this, it will shatter. Find out if it is tempered before drilling, if you can't find out (might be hard on a used tank) don't take the chance. You should be able to have a similar effect from having the bottom two near the bottom of the tank. You could extend Loc Line to do this.

Also, the Dart will require a 2" bulkhead that needs a 3" hole. I believe the Snapper does as well. I'd follow this guideline for sure. That said, a single Dart on a 220 with 3' of head will give you 13x turn over. Consider adding power heads, upgrading the Dart to a Hammerhead or have two closed loops.

Oh yeah, subscribed
Thanks.

The bottom isn't tempered, I checked with the manufacturer the day I bought the tank.

I agree with the pump, and need to check the various flow rates to see if the Barracuda or Hammerhead would make more sense.

Also, I had planned on using 2 additional powerheads within the tank for flow.


Tswifty is offline  
Unread 09/08/2008, 01:23 PM   #105
Tswifty
Registered Member
 
Tswifty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Posts: 14,022
Quote:
Originally posted by chrismunn
if your uncomfortable free hand drilling...
So would I go straight on with the bit? In the video they start on an angle, then tip into it.


Tswifty is offline  
Unread 09/08/2008, 01:25 PM   #106
new2sw776784
Registered Member
 
new2sw776784's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: newark ohio
Posts: 383
Kar here is the thread you were talking about.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1206908

This guy knows how to put together a tank. Very clean and well thought out.

Brett


new2sw776784 is offline  
Unread 09/08/2008, 01:26 PM   #107
Tswifty
Registered Member
 
Tswifty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Posts: 14,022
Quote:
Originally posted by kar93
Hey, TJ. Have you seen the "Big E" build thread over in the Large Tanks forum? That tank has about 3,000 holes in it . I'll try dig it up, I think it was one of this years ThOTM's.
No I haven't seen it yet... Laura probably has though. She probably knows more about everything I need for this upgrade than I do. That's about the only RC forum she frequents.


Tswifty is offline  
Unread 09/08/2008, 02:17 PM   #108
chrismunn
Registered Member
 
chrismunn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 4,200
Quote:
Originally posted by Tswifty8
So would I go straight on with the bit? In the video they start on an angle, then tip into it.
if your free handing it then you need to tip the bit to keep it from running away from you. if you try to go straight in without a guide the bit will walk off its mark and tear up the glass.

with the guide in place the bit has nowhere to go so you dont have to start it at an angle.


__________________
Marine Aquarists Association of South Texas

Austin Reef Club

PBITAWA...

Current Tank Info: 14g bio cube
chrismunn is offline  
Unread 09/08/2008, 04:13 PM   #109
2frosty4u
Registered Member
 
2frosty4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 745
Quote:
Originally posted by Tswifty8
So would I go straight on with the bit? In the video they start on an angle, then tip into it.
I personally dont like starting freehand. I've tried it and it can cause nasty scratches if the bit takes off on you.
I have a piece of 18"x18"x1/2" plywood that I drilled matching size holes to my three glass bits in with a cheapy key hole saw. The keyhole saw holes were a little tight so I filed them and sanded them so there is a minimal amount of play. I positioned the holes in from the edge of the plywood to correspond with the trim on my tank so that when I put the wood against the trim the holes always stay nice and equal distances away. It Looks really nice when the bulkheads all line up. With the plywood being that size it makes it easier to clamp it in place through the tanks opening. Once in a while I've used one hand to hold the wood and drill with the other, This is the ONLY TIME I drill with one hand and I have an assistant with a spray bottle of water cooling the bit. The plywood does a great job holding a film of water around the bit. Once I have a solid groove capable of holding the bit I usually remove the wood and finish free handed. I have on some tanks just left the wood in place and go right through but only on thin tanks. By removing the wood it makes washing the glass chips out of the groove easier and makes the bit work better. I dont flood the hole with a hose, I use a spraypump bottle from the dollar store. I have on occasion when first starting to learn the tricks to drilling a tank, placed a piece of wood inside the tank to prevent the bit from breaking through to quickly and shattering the tank. I place the wood on whatever card board box or boxes that suit the size of the inside of the tank to get the wood close to the glass and then with two sponges acting as wedges stuff them between the box and the wood. this made me feel a lot more at ease.
The first piece of glass I drilled was a used 35g I picked up for $20 for the purpose of trying my hand at making holes. It is now a friends fuge. Practicing is a great idea and how I started.
You asked in an earlier post about drilll speed and I checked my cordless and it says 1800 RPM on high and thats the speed which I use.


__________________
A small fish in a big aquarium
2frosty4u is offline  
Unread 09/08/2008, 05:49 PM   #110
chrismunn
Registered Member
 
chrismunn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 4,200
i like that idea of yours frosty, using a piece of wood behind the glass being drilled so that you dont blow through it with too much force. thats an excellent idea! i could have used that idea years ago!



theres some inspiration for ya swifty!


__________________
Marine Aquarists Association of South Texas

Austin Reef Club

PBITAWA...

Current Tank Info: 14g bio cube
chrismunn is offline  
Unread 09/08/2008, 06:01 PM   #111
Aquarist007
Registered Member
 
Aquarist007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hamilton, Canada
Posts: 28,240
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally posted by 2frosty4u
I personally dont like starting freehand. I've tried it and it can cause nasty scratches if the bit takes off on you.
I have a piece of 18"x18"x1/2" plywood that I drilled matching size holes to my three glass bits in with a cheapy key hole saw. The keyhole saw holes were a little tight so I filed them and sanded them so there is a minimal amount of play. I positioned the holes in from the edge of the plywood to correspond with the trim on my tank so that when I put the wood against the trim the holes always stay nice and equal distances away. It Looks really nice when the bulkheads all line up. With the plywood being that size it makes it easier to clamp it in place through the tanks opening. Once in a while I've used one hand to hold the wood and drill with the other, This is the ONLY TIME I drill with one hand and I have an assistant with a spray bottle of water cooling the bit. The plywood does a great job holding a film of water around the bit. Once I have a solid groove capable of holding the bit I usually remove the wood and finish free handed. I have on some tanks just left the wood in place and go right through but only on thin tanks. By removing the wood it makes washing the glass chips out of the groove easier and makes the bit work better. I dont flood the hole with a hose, I use a spraypump bottle from the dollar store. I have on occasion when first starting to learn the tricks to drilling a tank, placed a piece of wood inside the tank to prevent the bit from breaking through to quickly and shattering the tank. I place the wood on whatever card board box or boxes that suit the size of the inside of the tank to get the wood close to the glass and then with two sponges acting as wedges stuff them between the box and the wood. this made me feel a lot more at ease.
The first piece of glass I drilled was a used 35g I picked up for $20 for the purpose of trying my hand at making holes. It is now a friends fuge. Practicing is a great idea and how I started.
You asked in an earlier post about drilll speed and I checked my cordless and it says 1800 RPM on high and thats the speed which I use.
you should let me video the next one you do Harold---how about my 30 gal fowlr


__________________
I prefer my substrates stirred but not shaken

Current Tank Info: 150gal long mixed reef, 90gal sump, 60 gal refugium with 200 lbs live rock
Aquarist007 is offline  
Unread 09/08/2008, 06:18 PM   #112
Al Bendiksen
Registered Member
 
Al Bendiksen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 528
Quote:
Originally posted by Michael
dont do that kar, take some worthingtons cream flow over, the american and canadian guys would have never tasted anything like it before

A little late but,


Boddingtons is the beer to go with


Good luck drilling tswifty! If it does end up chattering, wait 'till next semester for another college kid to leave


__________________
"Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind" -JFK

"There's never nothing going on. There are no ordinary moments."

Current Tank Info: Starting a 120g
Al Bendiksen is offline  
Unread 09/08/2008, 07:13 PM   #113
raen
Registered Member
 
raen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 3,084
Quote:
Originally posted by capn_hylinur
I'm in--and maybe do your tank in the same weekend

Kind of like "tank hopping"
TOTALLY!!!!!


__________________
Rae N.

She wasn't wicked, she only liked the shoes!!!

Current Tank Info: 60 Gall Hex, 3 #3's, no fuge..........YET!!!
raen is offline  
Unread 09/08/2008, 07:42 PM   #114
Aquarist007
Registered Member
 
Aquarist007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hamilton, Canada
Posts: 28,240
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally posted by raen
TOTALLY!!!!!
put you have to let us take your picture in it like TJ


__________________
I prefer my substrates stirred but not shaken

Current Tank Info: 150gal long mixed reef, 90gal sump, 60 gal refugium with 200 lbs live rock
Aquarist007 is offline  
Unread 09/08/2008, 08:58 PM   #115
Tswifty
Registered Member
 
Tswifty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Posts: 14,022
Quote:
Originally posted by 2frosty4u
I personally dont like starting freehand. I've tried it and it can cause nasty scratches if the bit takes off on you.
I have a piece of 18"x18"x1/2" plywood that I drilled matching size holes to my three glass bits in with a cheapy key hole saw. The keyhole saw holes were a little tight so I filed them and sanded them so there is a minimal amount of play. I positioned the holes in from the edge of the plywood to correspond with the trim on my tank so that when I put the wood against the trim the holes always stay nice and equal distances away. It Looks really nice when the bulkheads all line up. With the plywood being that size it makes it easier to clamp it in place through the tanks opening. Once in a while I've used one hand to hold the wood and drill with the other, This is the ONLY TIME I drill with one hand and I have an assistant with a spray bottle of water cooling the bit. The plywood does a great job holding a film of water around the bit. Once I have a solid groove capable of holding the bit I usually remove the wood and finish free handed. I have on some tanks just left the wood in place and go right through but only on thin tanks. By removing the wood it makes washing the glass chips out of the groove easier and makes the bit work better. I dont flood the hole with a hose, I use a spraypump bottle from the dollar store. I have on occasion when first starting to learn the tricks to drilling a tank, placed a piece of wood inside the tank to prevent the bit from breaking through to quickly and shattering the tank. I place the wood on whatever card board box or boxes that suit the size of the inside of the tank to get the wood close to the glass and then with two sponges acting as wedges stuff them between the box and the wood. this made me feel a lot more at ease.
The first piece of glass I drilled was a used 35g I picked up for $20 for the purpose of trying my hand at making holes. It is now a friends fuge. Practicing is a great idea and how I started.
You asked in an earlier post about drilll speed and I checked my cordless and it says 1800 RPM on high and thats the speed which I use.
Thanks for the tips. I'll definitely plan on making a template out of plywood, and having an assistant or two on hand.

I just checked, and the drill I have is 2500 RPM.

So water should work fine for cooling the bit?


Tswifty is offline  
Unread 09/08/2008, 09:01 PM   #116
Tswifty
Registered Member
 
Tswifty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Posts: 14,022
Quote:
Originally posted by Al Bendiksen
A little late but,


Boddingtons is the beer to go with


Good luck drilling tswifty! If it does end up chattering, wait 'till next semester for another college kid to leave
Thanks... hopefully it won't come to that.


Tswifty is offline  
Unread 09/08/2008, 09:27 PM   #117
Tswifty
Registered Member
 
Tswifty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Posts: 14,022
Quote:
Originally posted by capn_hylinur
have you done an estimated cost factor on this build yet?
Overflow & Closed Loop Construction

Stand & Canopy Construction

Fish "closet" Construction

Substrate & Live Rock Addition:

- Enough LR for 2 More Pillars
- Approx. 350lbs of sand for 4" sand bed

Flow:

1 - Reeflo Barracuda Closed Loop Pump
1 - Reeflo Dart Return Pump
1 - Ocean Motions 4 Way (Version 3)
2 - Wavy Seas Wavemakers for returns
2 - Tunze Stream Pumps

Filtration:

2 - 75 Gallon Aquariums (sump & refugium)
1 - Marine Solutions MSX-300 Protein Skimmer
1 - Calcium Reactor (undecided on specifics)

Lighting:

3 - 400w Metal Halides (undecided on specifics)

Misc:

- DJ Powerstrips
- Aquacontroller III
- Cooling fans
- Power Fail System


Tswifty is offline  
Unread 09/08/2008, 09:39 PM   #118
Tswifty
Registered Member
 
Tswifty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Posts: 14,022
I'm gonna empty out the garage, and get out the tape measure tomorrow so I can figure out exactly how much (or little) room I have to work with.


__________________
"Enough light? Heck I could go barebottom and grow SPS in the stand!" - DiscoReefRover
Tswifty is offline  
Unread 09/08/2008, 11:04 PM   #119
2frosty4u
Registered Member
 
2frosty4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 745
Quote:
Originally posted by Tswifty8
Thanks for the tips. I'll definitely plan on making a template out of plywood, and having an assistant or two on hand.

I just checked, and the drill I have is 2500 RPM.

So water should work fine for cooling the bit?
Yes water is great for cooling and washing away the glass chips. The glass turns to a powder consistancy while drilling that needs to be flushed away so the bit is cutting fresh glass and not just pulverizing what has already been cut. If at all possible, try and drill the hole in one shot. Stopping and starting is a great way to catch an edge and cause a break. Even with 1/2" glass It usually takes less than 5 minutes per hole when I do the ones for 1 1/2" bulkheads. The bits I buy from our local supplier mops.ca are rated for approx. 20 holes. I tend to drill more holes for 1" bulkheads for people than any other size and my latest bit has been used for 12 holes and still cuts great.


__________________
A small fish in a big aquarium
2frosty4u is offline  
Unread 09/08/2008, 11:10 PM   #120
2frosty4u
Registered Member
 
2frosty4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 745
Quote:
Originally posted by capn_hylinur
you should let me video the next one you do Harold---how about my 30 gal fowlr
I'll gladly drill the fowler for you but I dont do pictures or videos....lol


__________________
A small fish in a big aquarium
2frosty4u is offline  
Unread 09/09/2008, 12:07 PM   #121
pcannone
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Bartlett, IL
Posts: 266
I just subscribed...Great thread and I know I will learn alot (at least for this newbe).

Question: I currently have a 55G with no sump, but two filters and bakpak protein skimmer. Someday soon, I will be upgrading to a 120 - 220 gallon tank (not sure yet). I know I will be learning alot from this thread among other threads (that I've been reading). My question is what is the difference between a sump and refuge? Should you have both?

Thanks in advance for the response. I'm sure I'll have more questions along the way.


__________________
Thanks

Patrick

Current Tank Info: 220G Saltwater Tank and 90 gallon sump.
pcannone is offline  
Unread 09/09/2008, 03:18 PM   #122
Rustylugnuts
Powdered Toast Man
 
Rustylugnuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Peoria, IL
Posts: 813
A sump is just a place to hide your equipment and add some water volume to the system. A fuge can be considered a sump you you grow out algae, pods and other critters that might otherwise get eaten in the display. Some folks dedicate a section to the fuge in the sump. Others dedicate a separate tank to this. Both ways work but If I had the space I would run a 20 to 40 gallon tank just for the fuge.


__________________
And now back to my regularly scheduled lurking.
Drill It!

Current Tank Info: Buncha parts and tanks of various size. Nothing currently running :(
Rustylugnuts is offline  
Unread 09/09/2008, 08:42 PM   #123
D to the P
Registered Member
 
D to the P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Amishville, USA
Posts: 2,047
If you plan on doing a reef tank I would recommend that you use both a sump and a fuge. The sump could be like a 30 gallon tank, and the fuge could be as simple as a rubbermaid container, although I would recommend using a tank because sometimes the rubbermaid containers tend to bow out from the stress of the water.

For the fuge you have options too. You can either put in a deep sand bed (about 4") which will help get rid of nitrate, and some macro algae. Or you can just put in macro algae. The macro algae is used as a sponge for nitrate and phosphate. It's important to test your water for those two things on a regular basis until you figure out when it is the right time to "harvest" the macro algae. The algae will only be able to absorb so much before you have to pull some of it out to allow for more growth. There are a lot of articles on RC about the many ways you can set these up. I even think the Capn' has a link or two on his blog (click his little red house).

Either way you set it up, fuge's are great. You'll definitely notice a difference in how clean your water is once your fuge gets going. Another cool thing about them is that it becomes a refuge for things that would normally get eaten in the tank. Copepods, Amphipods, Mini brittle stars, etc. These things can be sucked up into your aquarium and feed your fish, and their larva can feed your corals too.


__________________
Nature V.S. Nurture: Nature Always Wins.

Current Tank Info: 12 gallon Aquapod reef with LED's, multiple nano's at work.
D to the P is offline  
Unread 09/09/2008, 09:29 PM   #124
Aquarist007
Registered Member
 
Aquarist007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hamilton, Canada
Posts: 28,240
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally posted by Tswifty8
Overflow & Closed Loop Construction

Stand & Canopy Construction

Fish "closet" Construction

Substrate & Live Rock Addition:

- Enough LR for 2 More Pillars
- Approx. 350lbs of sand for 4" sand bed

Flow:

1 - Reeflo Barracuda Closed Loop Pump
1 - Reeflo Dart Return Pump
1 - Ocean Motions 4 Way (Version 3)
2 - Wavy Seas Wavemakers for returns
2 - Tunze Stream Pumps

Filtration:

2 - 75 Gallon Aquariums (sump & refugium)
1 - Marine Solutions MSX-300 Protein Skimmer
1 - Calcium Reactor (undecided on specifics)

Lighting:

3 - 400w Metal Halides (undecided on specifics)

Misc:

- DJ Powerstrips
- Aquacontroller III
- Cooling fans
- Power Fail System
IMO the deep sand bed should be run remotely as in a fuge---keep to one inch or so in the display--way less sand needed plus as a remote dsb--less possible problems in the display


__________________
I prefer my substrates stirred but not shaken

Current Tank Info: 150gal long mixed reef, 90gal sump, 60 gal refugium with 200 lbs live rock
Aquarist007 is offline  
Unread 09/09/2008, 09:30 PM   #125
Aquarist007
Registered Member
 
Aquarist007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hamilton, Canada
Posts: 28,240
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally posted by Tswifty8
Overflow & Closed Loop Construction

Stand & Canopy Construction

Fish "closet" Construction

Substrate & Live Rock Addition:

- Enough LR for 2 More Pillars
- Approx. 350lbs of sand for 4" sand bed

Flow:

1 - Reeflo Barracuda Closed Loop Pump
1 - Reeflo Dart Return Pump
1 - Ocean Motions 4 Way (Version 3)
2 - Wavy Seas Wavemakers for returns
2 - Tunze Stream Pumps

Filtration:

2 - 75 Gallon Aquariums (sump & refugium)
1 - Marine Solutions MSX-300 Protein Skimmer
1 - Calcium Reactor (undecided on specifics)

Lighting:

3 - 400w Metal Halides (undecided on specifics)

Misc:

- DJ Powerstrips
- Aquacontroller III
- Cooling fans
- Power Fail System
Halides--I'm shocked--I thought you were a T5 man


__________________
I prefer my substrates stirred but not shaken

Current Tank Info: 150gal long mixed reef, 90gal sump, 60 gal refugium with 200 lbs live rock
Aquarist007 is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2022
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.