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Unread 09/09/2008, 09:34 PM   #126
Aquarist007
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Quote:
Originally posted by pcannone
I just subscribed...Great thread and I know I will learn alot (at least for this newbe).

Question: I currently have a 55G with no sump, but two filters and bakpak protein skimmer. Someday soon, I will be upgrading to a 120 - 220 gallon tank (not sure yet). I know I will be learning alot from this thread among other threads (that I've been reading). My question is what is the difference between a sump and refuge? Should you have both?

Thanks in advance for the response. I'm sure I'll have more questions along the way.
Have a look at this thread--I'm sure it will give you some ideas

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1349443


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Unread 09/09/2008, 09:47 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally posted by capn_hylinur
Halides--I'm shocked--I thought you were a T5 man
I definitely am a T5 guy, but I need to crunch the numbers on what a T5 upgrade would cost. I would need A LOT of T5's to light a 220. My gut feel is that MH's will be the better way to go, with some T5's for actinic/color supplementation.


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Unread 09/09/2008, 09:50 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally posted by capn_hylinur
IMO the deep sand bed should be run remotely as in a fuge---keep to one inch or so in the display--way less sand needed plus as a remote dsb--less possible problems in the display
I'm definitely not targeting a DSB in the display. Just enough to comfortably house some jawfish or other burrowing livestock. I envision it probably ending up in the 2"- 4" range, but we'll see what ends up happening.


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Unread 09/09/2008, 09:54 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tswifty8
I definitely am a T5 guy, but I need to crunch the numbers on what a T5 upgrade would cost. I would need A LOT of T5's to light a 220. My gut feel is that MH's will be the better way to go, with some T5's for actinic/color supplementation.
I would think it still would be cheaper to go with two sets of 8 t5's

What do those pendant MH's cost in the states. I was quoted 650 each.


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Unread 09/09/2008, 10:07 PM   #130
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I haven't looked into it that much yet.

As far as the cost per unit... I plan on piecing my units together based off of Sanjay's lighting site. So I can be certain I'm getting the most bang for my buck.

I'm not sure T5's can compete with 400w halides at 30" depth, but will need to do some more research before making a final decision.

The lighting will be the last purchase. So I've got some time, and I plan on soliciting a few opinions before making my final decision.


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Unread 09/09/2008, 10:31 PM   #131
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I don't think you'll get as good of light penetration with the t5's that you would get with the halides. So you'll probably get better PAR and Lux ratings on the sand bed with the halides.

Since we're just adding more money onto your hypothetical bill, why not get a LED system? What's another $3,000 when you're already spending enough to put a down payment on a house?


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Unread 09/10/2008, 12:15 AM   #132
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Whats that saying once you go halide you nver go back. Hadlides welcome to light (dark) side (corny darth vader reference) I smell 400watters 3 of em. maybe some T5 actinics. Good thing you drive a Mazda, you save all that extra money on gas now you can buy one of my stained glass tangs


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Unread 09/10/2008, 04:33 AM   #133
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Just catching up on the thread, I too was surprised about the lighting, but get it. Trust me, I get the whole lighting the bottom of the tank thing! I hate the bottom of my tank, well not hate, just a strong dislike. I wish someone would come up with a submersable light that we tall tank havers could put inside the tank, built into a fake LR. There you go Teej, I just T'd you up to make you millions!


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Unread 09/10/2008, 07:23 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally posted by capn_hylinur
Have a look at this thread--I'm sure it will give you some ideas

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1349443

Thanks for the info Capn, I look forward to reading it.

Also thanks to D to the P, for your reply. It makes sense now. Hopefully, with all of these ideas I will be able to build something similar.


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Unread 09/10/2008, 07:31 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally posted by D to the P
I don't think you'll get as good of light penetration with the t5's that you would get with the halides. So you'll probably get better PAR and Lux ratings on the sand bed with the halides.

Since we're just adding more money onto your hypothetical bill, why not get a LED system? What's another $3,000 when you're already spending enough to put a down payment on a house?
thanks--that settles my delima since I have a high 110gal.


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Unread 09/10/2008, 07:45 AM   #136
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I wouldn't jump that easy Scott.

It's not that cut and dry. A lot of things need to be taken into consideration.

If your looking at 150w/175w halides... Then it's been my experience that T5's w/ individual reflectors will beat them, hands down.

If your looking at 250w halides... I believe the T5's with the IceCap ballasts & Individual reflectors will definitely compete with, if not beat out most 250w bulb, ballast, reflector combinations.

However, when you get into the 400w halides... I think it's gets harder for the T5's to keep up with the halides. Like I said, I need to do some research before choosing a side.


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Unread 09/10/2008, 08:02 AM   #137
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Also, it obviously depends what your housing in your system... as you may not have high lighting demands

I want to be able to grow SPS successfully at all levels of the 30" tank... So I'm looking for raw, intense, crushing, growth power. (I think)

That being said, I've seen tanks where SPS corals will actually grow away from the light, because it is too intense for them. Plus your spectrum with the halides will come into play.

There are just SO many things to consider. I don't believe there is a simple "one size fits all" answer. When it comes time to make a decision, I'll be looking at each scenario in depth before making a decsion.

On my 90g tank... After doing research, I came to the conclusion that the T5's were the best fit. I can't assume this will translate into the 220... although it very well may.


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Unread 09/10/2008, 09:39 AM   #138
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Quote:
Originally posted by D to the P
I don't think you'll get as good of light penetration with the t5's that you would get with the halides. So you'll probably get better PAR and Lux ratings on the sand bed with the halides.

Since we're just adding more money onto your hypothetical bill, why not get a LED system? What's another $3,000 when you're already spending enough to put a down payment on a house?


I'll be trying to find most everything used... so hopefully it wont be that bad.


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Unread 09/10/2008, 09:43 AM   #139
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Quote:
Originally posted by atrox
Whats that saying once you go halide you nver go back. Hadlides welcome to light (dark) side (corny darth vader reference) I smell 400watters 3 of em. maybe some T5 actinics. Good thing you drive a Mazda, you save all that extra money on gas now you can buy one of my stained glass tangs
Yeah except it's the v6 and doesn't get much better gas mileage than my old Toyota SUV.

I'm also a little curious about the "shimmer" effect everyone raves about.


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Unread 09/10/2008, 09:49 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tswifty8
Yeah except it's the v6 and doesn't get much better gas mileage than my old Toyota SUV.

I'm also a little curious about the "shimmer" effect everyone raves about.
with your tank being 30", i would also go the MH route even tho i love my T5s. 400w mh should out compete the T5s at 30" i have read it in plenty of t5 vs mh threads.


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Unread 09/10/2008, 10:24 AM   #141
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Capn', each tank is different and it all depends on what you want to do. From what I understand, there isn't much that compares to 400watt metal halide (although I've read that LED's are very very close) when it comes to penetration. If you want to have clams on the bottom, or even if you just don't want to only have SPS corals around the top, then you would need to get a light that can penetrate deep into the water. I don't believe there is anything that would work better than a 400 watt metal halide in that case.

But, as TJ said, there are other situations where T5 would be more than sufficient. Especially if you overdrive the bulbs with an ice cap ballast. I would still use T5's if my situation called for the same penetration that a 250 metal halide would provide simply because of the money it would save.

Some people really like the shimmer effect of the halides, and as far as I'm concerned its really the only selling point that halides have going for them (250 watts and less that is). Just like everything else, people have mixed results with different methods. Some people still think you get better growth and color using halides, others now swear by T5's, and some even still refuse to move along with the technology and they are still using VHO's.

So, it'll take some deep thinking, consideration, and planning as to what you want your tank to be. If it's the route that TJ is going, a SPS dominant tank, than you'll want to make sure that you get the best light for that situation. If the tank is 30" high, I would go with halides. If the tank is only 24" high, I might consider using T5's instead. But if I won the lottery, I'd be trying out one of the new LED systems and probably spend the rest of the winnings on getting it repaired every other month because they are still so cheaply and unreliably made (in China) from what I've heard.


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Unread 09/10/2008, 10:39 AM   #142
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Here's what I'm thinking about doing with the garage. The remaining room on the top shelf will be left empty in the beginning, but I may hook up a frag tank there eventually.




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Last edited by Tswifty; 09/10/2008 at 10:51 AM.
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Unread 09/10/2008, 10:56 AM   #143
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What is the yellow PVC line suppose to represent?


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Thanks

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Current Tank Info: 220G Saltwater Tank and 90 gallon sump.
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Unread 09/10/2008, 10:58 AM   #144
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That's the siphon standpipe... Yellow font was hard to read, so I used black.


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Unread 09/10/2008, 11:00 AM   #145
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Looks good. I would plumb in a "T" for the frag tank now, with a vavle on it so when you do add it you won't have to re-do the return plumbing, just add to it.

I'm actually a little freaked out reading your build, nearly everything your doing/planning matchs with the plan in my head for my future upgrade. My wife and I are just finishing with the last details on buying our first home, and the basement has a large storage/furnance/breaker room right next to a large 3rd bedroom that I'm going to convert into a "Mans Room". A 180 or bigger will be going in the wall. Literally everything I'm planning, with the exception of the lights are the same, even the plumbing!


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Unread 09/10/2008, 11:01 AM   #146
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Looks like a good way to get a lot in a small space.
Are both the sump and fuge gonna be 75 gallon tanks?

And if so, what are you going to do with all the extra room in the sump? You could always pile up some more live rock in there.

And this time around, what are your plans for the fuge? Just another cheato farm, or a DSB with some live rock and plants like mangroves and macroalgae?

It might be nice to have a fuge worth looking at. Especially if you end up getting another situation like what happened with the engineer goby or the CB shrimp.


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Unread 09/10/2008, 11:04 AM   #147
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Thanks. I kind of figured that. Just wanted to make sure.

For someone who is learning more and more with each thread, would you be able to put either arrows or a brief narrative on where the water is coming or going?


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Unread 09/10/2008, 11:04 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally posted by Phillybean
Looks good. I would plumb in a "T" for the frag tank now, with a vavle on it so when you do add it you won't have to re-do the return plumbing, just add to it.

I'm actually a little freaked out reading your build, nearly everything your doing/planning matchs with the plan in my head for my future upgrade. My wife and I are just finishing with the last details on buying our first home, and the basement has a large storage/furnance/breaker room right next to a large 3rd bedroom that I'm going to convert into a "Mans Room". A 180 or bigger will be going in the wall. Literally everything I'm planning, with the exception of the lights are the same, even the plumbing!
man room. That's fantastic.

What about when it needs vacuumed?


just kidding any ladies out there


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Unread 09/10/2008, 11:12 AM   #149
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Tswifty8Makes perfect sense to me :-
- Isnt the second gate/ball valve on your siphon ( main to Sump) superfluous?
- You might as well T-off the return for Calcium Reactor/Denitrator/Phosban/Carbon Reactors mow ( only teasing!)
- Will your ATO go in the garage .. may as well build in now ... bang goes the frag tank space


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Unread 09/10/2008, 11:20 AM   #150
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..Actually rethinking .. wouldnt sump be better off at 90 degrees to make plumbing easier with skimmer section to left .. as it currently is the skimmer section and fuge overflow are at the same end ..

doesnt matter, but easily worked out ( by someone brighter than me)


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