SolaTubes for reef tanks

JohnL · 09/12/2007, 09:14 PM

This thread was automatically split due to performance issues. You can find the rest of the thread here: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...8#post10755118

Reefski's · 09/12/2007, 09:14 PM

it is 4'x8', the same size as the foot print of the tank. and i did not personally build it, just designed it. is that the same thing sort of?

hahnmeister · 09/12/2007, 10:49 PM

Thats a big skylight.

token · 09/12/2007, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hahnmeister
Thats a big skylight.

And a nicely sized tank!

erics3000 · 09/13/2007, 11:58 PM

Carl I tried www.anolux.com and it didn't work.

I have really loved this idea in the past. Your tanks look sweet guys. Just saving money every month is a big plus. I am building an 8 foot tank and really thinking about getting 2 of the tubes from home depot and run 2 MH and see how it works. I am just not sure how the other half will react when I tell her now I am cutting into our new roof. hahahahahh Great job guys..

Reefski's · 09/14/2007, 04:41 AM

oops, my bad.

the web site is anomet.com and the product i used is anolux III http://anomet.com/cgi-bin/online/storepro.php which has the best reflective properties for us. ie, high reflectance in the UV range as well as the visible. one of the products had higher overall reflectance in the visible but almost no UV reflectance.

Julie over there is terrific and really helped me out. i got 4x8 sheets which they do not list on their website but are available and at a cost savings over the 2x4 sheets.

They are in Canada and so there was the added cost of shipping internationally. all told, <$2000 to do my whole skylight shaft and to have a couple sheets left over to build a reflector above the skylight and a reflective BBQ. i will save that much the first year.

of course that was not the whole expense of the skylight. framing and the skylight itself was $1,000 for a 4x8 single glazed opening skylight.

i found an American company who will remain nameless that sold what i believe is the same product for 3x's the price plus shipping. the product is manufactured in Germany i believe.

Eric, i encourage you to use the tubes but on an 8 foot tank you could use a lot more. too bad you didn't do it while the new roof was being installed. tell your wife it is not that big a deal to install the tubes later though. we do it all the time. just a little more $$$ now.

Carl

salty joe · 09/14/2007, 05:26 AM

Carl,
The tank I have planned also will have a 4'x8' footprint. I had the roof trusses roughed in to accecpt two 4'x4' skylights. I guess that a single 8'x4' skylight is possible, but it would have a girder truss in the middle.
For now, I had the framers sheet the skylight holes and it is shingled like the rest of the roof. After the house is done and we get moved in, the reef tank happens. It's looking like the spring for the tank.

Anyway, the roof where the skylight comes through is a tiny bit steeper than 4/12. We used dimensional asphalt shingles. My skylight is not near the peak like yours which maybe is a flashing challenge.

In terms of a watertight flashing job, would you reccomend two 4'x4' skylights with 3" or 4" between them, or a single 8'x4'?

Joe

Reefski's · 09/14/2007, 07:11 AM

either way is fine. a single skylight may be more expensive than two smaller ones, maybe not. flashing two is more work but if competently done neither should leak. we don't get call backs on skylights and have done 100's.

it great you framed it for a skylight. why didn't you just install it while they were framing?

my roof is 5:12 and composition shingles also.

my skylight at the top of the slope with the parapet just above makes it a bit more difficult to flash than one lower down. you should be fine.

do you plan to have the shaft come to the tank like i did or just to the ceiling? i think that makes a huge difference.

Carl

salty joe · 09/14/2007, 09:15 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by carloskoi
[B] it great you framed it for a skylight. why didn't you just install it while they were framing?

I did not have the skylights. Still don't have them.

do you plan to have the shaft come to the tank like i did or just to the ceiling? i think that makes a huge difference.

I will line the shaft with specular aluminum to the tank. Earlier in this thread, someone took a skylight shaft and fabricated a series of smaller reflective shafts that filled one large skylight shaft. I think it was intended to even out the sunlight reaching the tank.

Reefski's · 09/15/2007, 06:07 AM

seems like a waste of money making shafts in the shaft. the light is really cool the way it moves around the tank. seems much more natural as it passes overhead. and i will have room to work in the tank. hang lights, lift the lights, etc.

the more the light is reflected the more it is absorbed.

Carl

seastar12 · 09/22/2007, 08:04 PM

Wow, I can't wait to see how this tank turns out.

mr.wilson · 09/23/2007, 03:55 PM

Carloskoi,

1) Are you supplementing the natural sunlight with artificial lighting? Does this cause a lot of shading, or do you have a reflector with a small footprint?

2) How long is the effective photo-period with just sunlight? Do you get at least 8 hours of full intensity?

3) Does the skylight heat the tank significantly, or create hot spots?

4) Does the skylight filter out all of the light between 310-360 nm (Uv A)? Or will you use a poly plastic filter for this purpose?

5) How do you plan on amending the light to 14,000 - 20,000 kelvin degrees? Will you use a blue filter above above the tank in the light well opening?

6) Have you taken LUX readings yet? Are you able to get at least 14,000 LUX in 12" of saltwater?

7) Will the light vary significantly in intensity and duration (photo-period) throughout the year in Venice? Will you get more shadowing when the sun is lower during "winter"?

8) What kind of corals do you plan on keeping? Shallow - medium - deep water species?

I don't mean to put you on the spot. Feel free to answer with a "I'm not sure yet" if you're still working on the details as you go.

salty joe · 09/26/2007, 05:34 AM

One really nice thing about using the sun is there is no intensity dropoff due to distance. The light at the surface of the water is what you will get at the bottom of the tank no matter how deep it is, minus the effect of the water. With artificial light the intensity drops off in a hurry due to distance. If I remeber correctly, light obeys an inverse square law. For sure, you get a lot less intensity at 2 feet than 1 foot, and a lot less at 4 feet than 2 feet. This law can be ignored for the sun because it is so far away.

Adrianvh · 09/26/2007, 05:39 AM

Great point Joe

Reefski's · 09/26/2007, 06:09 AM

1) Are you supplementing the natural sunlight with artificial lighting? Does this cause a lot of shading, or do you have a reflector with a small footprint?

reflectors with small footprint, about 1.5 sw feet per reflector. i will measure light for a few months with no supplemental light so see how it goes before deciding how many and how much. i will have some though and moon lights for night viewing. i have 6 10 watt led's for moon lights.

2) How long is the effective photo-period with just sunlight? Do you get at least 8 hours of full intensity?

it ramps up during the day but i think at least right now it is at least 8 hours of very bright sun. it is not always high noon on the reef either. there is shading as the sun moves which i think is really cool and will give growth in a way the point source of MH won't do.

3) Does the skylight heat the tank significantly, or create hot spots?
i don't know yet. exhaust fans will be in the skylight shaft. the skylight is opening.

4) Does the skylight filter out all of the light between 310-360 nm (Uv A)? Or will you use a poly plastic filter for this purpose?
it is supposed to transmit about 50% of the UV, single glazed acrylic. transmits 95% light and the Anolux is 87% reflective and that includes the UV.

5) How do you plan on amending the light to 14,000 - 20,000 kelvin degrees? Will you use a blue filter above above the tank in the light well opening?
I don't, but i will use high Kelvin bulbs in my lighting.

6) Have you taken LUX readings yet? Are you able to get at least 14,000 LUX in 12" of saltwater?
there is no water in the tank yet. PAR readings are 1400-1600 during peak hours.

7) Will the light vary significantly in intensity and duration (photo-period) throughout the year in Venice? Will you get more shadowing when the sun is lower during "winter"?
of course and there are cloudy morning during part of the year although our temps are mild especially here near the beach and rainfall average is about 15 inches so many sunny days per year.

8) What kind of corals do you plan on keeping? Shallow - medium - deep water species?
shallow water species. a few LPS, no zoanthids or soft corals.

hahnmeister · 09/26/2007, 11:56 AM

"PAR readings are 1400-1600 during peak hours."

Holy Crap thats overkill...

I have actual PAR calculations for various corals at depths in the wild, and thats very a very bright peak. Most corals are collected from the 10-15m range, where the PAR is in the 300 range. I asked Dana Riddle to send me the actual numbers, and he sent me pretty much a whole paper, graphs and all. Very cool stuff.

In Julian Sprung/C. Delbeek's Reef Aquarium Vol. 3, pages 444-449, there is going to be alot oof information you are going to want to see.

rogergolf66 · 09/26/2007, 03:34 PM

what about lumans any info there?

hahnmeister · 09/26/2007, 04:11 PM

In Delbeek/Sprungs book there is. There are 'rough conversions' given. Of course, you cant convert Lux to PAR, but there are Lux values and PAR values given at various depths... and considering we cant match the light spectrum with regards to gradient anyways, the translation is pretty good.

Top of p449, Sprung says...

'The greatest variety of coral growth occurs at depths between 10-15 meters (33 and 50ft.) where light intensities are lower than 20,000 Lux (Dustan, 1982) or 300 microMol/m2/s (Harker, 1999b).'

So if we disregard the spectrum a bit (since or tanks cant mimic nature by a larger margin of error than PAR being coverted to Lux), it would seem that a PAR of 150 is equal to 10,000 Lux.

Reefski's · 09/26/2007, 05:04 PM

maybe i mislead you all. that is the value out of the water. i have no water yet. i am sure it will attenuate considerably to a nice healthy amt.

i am very anxous to get water in the tank but the rest of the house construction has taken precedence for the moment.

i have the book and will reread that section.

Carl

Earl87gta · 12/27/2007, 03:21 AM

Do you guys know the max effective distance the sola tubes can carry light I have my tank in the basement of a 2 story house so I would have to have a tube almost 28 feet to get the light to the tank . Do you think the light intensity would be too little by the time I got to the tank for this to be any good for me. I would love to find a way to save on the electric bill.

stevelkaneval · 12/27/2007, 04:53 AM

what if you live in wi and the sun is further away? will this still work i was thinking about doing 2-3 in the house we are building for a really big tank.

stevelkaneval · 12/27/2007, 04:54 AM

oops i meant in the winter months

Reefski's · 12/27/2007, 06:39 AM

28 feet is a long way. how would you get it through the rooms above without it being obnoxious in the rooms above.

of course it will be less in the winter months.

Steve, when you build that new tank think of putting a skylight shaft over it not just a couple of tubes.

here is what i am working on.

Carl

conorwynne · 12/27/2007, 08:06 AM

That's amazing looking. Well done. I imagine you wont need any supplimental lighting with that setup.

Aside from night time viewing that is.

Regards
Conor.

rogergolf66 · 12/27/2007, 10:22 AM

won't need night time veiwing either. Natural moon light will look great in there.

09/13/2007, 11:58 PM	#5
erics3000 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Palm Bay FL Posts: 2,957	Carl I tried www.anolux.com and it didn't work. I have really loved this idea in the past. Your tanks look sweet guys. Just saving money every month is a big plus. I am building an 8 foot tank and really thinking about getting 2 of the tubes from home depot and run 2 MH and see how it works. I am just not sure how the other half will react when I tell her now I am cutting into our new roof. hahahahahh Great job guys.. __________________ Eric (Red House for my 300 display 600 system) Current Tank Info: 600 gallon system with 300 display

09/14/2007, 04:41 AM	#6
Reefski's Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Topanga Posts: 3,016	oops, my bad. the web site is anomet.com and the product i used is anolux III http://anomet.com/cgi-bin/online/storepro.php which has the best reflective properties for us. ie, high reflectance in the UV range as well as the visible. one of the products had higher overall reflectance in the visible but almost no UV reflectance. Julie over there is terrific and really helped me out. i got 4x8 sheets which they do not list on their website but are available and at a cost savings over the 2x4 sheets. They are in Canada and so there was the added cost of shipping internationally. all told, <$2000 to do my whole skylight shaft and to have a couple sheets left over to build a reflector above the skylight and a reflective BBQ. i will save that much the first year. of course that was not the whole expense of the skylight. framing and the skylight itself was $1,000 for a 4x8 single glazed opening skylight. i found an American company who will remain nameless that sold what i believe is the same product for 3x's the price plus shipping. the product is manufactured in Germany i believe. Eric, i encourage you to use the tubes but on an 8 foot tank you could use a lot more. too bad you didn't do it while the new roof was being installed. tell your wife it is not that big a deal to install the tubes later though. we do it all the time. just a little more $$$ now. Carl Last edited by Reefski's; 09/14/2007 at 04:46 AM.

09/14/2007, 05:26 AM	#7
salty joe Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: medina, ohio Posts: 2,419	Carl, The tank I have planned also will have a 4'x8' footprint. I had the roof trusses roughed in to accecpt two 4'x4' skylights. I guess that a single 8'x4' skylight is possible, but it would have a girder truss in the middle. For now, I had the framers sheet the skylight holes and it is shingled like the rest of the roof. After the house is done and we get moved in, the reef tank happens. It's looking like the spring for the tank. Anyway, the roof where the skylight comes through is a tiny bit steeper than 4/12. We used dimensional asphalt shingles. My skylight is not near the peak like yours which maybe is a flashing challenge. In terms of a watertight flashing job, would you reccomend two 4'x4' skylights with 3" or 4" between them, or a single 8'x4'? Joe __________________ Time to roll the dice.

09/26/2007, 05:34 AM	#13
salty joe Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: medina, ohio Posts: 2,419	One really nice thing about using the sun is there is no intensity dropoff due to distance. The light at the surface of the water is what you will get at the bottom of the tank no matter how deep it is, minus the effect of the water. With artificial light the intensity drops off in a hurry due to distance. If I remeber correctly, light obeys an inverse square law. For sure, you get a lot less intensity at 2 feet than 1 foot, and a lot less at 4 feet than 2 feet. This law can be ignored for the sun because it is so far away. __________________ Time to roll the dice.

09/26/2007, 03:34 PM	#17
rogergolf66 im an addict lol Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Land o lakes, FLorida Posts: 12,930	what about lumans any info there? __________________ Goal levels: salinity 35ppt, temp 78-79, alk 8-9, cal 430-450, mag 1310-1400 po4 .03, no3 1-3 Current Tank Info: System 1... 100 gal Zoa tank I built, 30 gal Ric Yuma shroom tank, 30 gal mix tank my sons,40 gal softie tank, 40 gal nem tank, two 40 gal LPS tank. System 2... 240 gal SPS display attached 100 gal frag SPS only tank.

09/12/2007, 09:14 PM	#1
JohnL RC Staff Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 14,431	This thread was automatically split due to performance issues. You can find the rest of the thread here: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...8#post10755118

09/12/2007, 10:49 PM	#3
hahnmeister Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brew City, WI Posts: 10,156	Thats a big skylight.

09/14/2007, 07:11 AM	#8
Reefski's Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Topanga Posts: 3,016	either way is fine. a single skylight may be more expensive than two smaller ones, maybe not. flashing two is more work but if competently done neither should leak. we don't get call backs on skylights and have done 100's. it great you framed it for a skylight. why didn't you just install it while they were framing? my roof is 5:12 and composition shingles also. my skylight at the top of the slope with the parapet just above makes it a bit more difficult to flash than one lower down. you should be fine. do you plan to have the shaft come to the tank like i did or just to the ceiling? i think that makes a huge difference. Carl

09/14/2007, 09:15 PM	#9
salty joe Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: medina, ohio Posts: 2,419	[QUOTE]Originally posted by carloskoi [B] it great you framed it for a skylight. why didn't you just install it while they were framing? I did not have the skylights. Still don't have them. do you plan to have the shaft come to the tank like i did or just to the ceiling? i think that makes a huge difference. I will line the shaft with specular aluminum to the tank. Earlier in this thread, someone took a skylight shaft and fabricated a series of smaller reflective shafts that filled one large skylight shaft. I think it was intended to even out the sunlight reaching the tank.

09/15/2007, 06:07 AM	#10
Reefski's Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Topanga Posts: 3,016	seems like a waste of money making shafts in the shaft. the light is really cool the way it moves around the tank. seems much more natural as it passes overhead. and i will have room to work in the tank. hang lights, lift the lights, etc. the more the light is reflected the more it is absorbed. Carl

09/22/2007, 08:04 PM	#11
seastar12 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 245	Wow, I can't wait to see how this tank turns out.

09/23/2007, 03:55 PM	#12
mr.wilson RC Sponsor Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 2,803	Carloskoi, 1) Are you supplementing the natural sunlight with artificial lighting? Does this cause a lot of shading, or do you have a reflector with a small footprint? 2) How long is the effective photo-period with just sunlight? Do you get at least 8 hours of full intensity? 3) Does the skylight heat the tank significantly, or create hot spots? 4) Does the skylight filter out all of the light between 310-360 nm (Uv A)? Or will you use a poly plastic filter for this purpose? 5) How do you plan on amending the light to 14,000 - 20,000 kelvin degrees? Will you use a blue filter above above the tank in the light well opening? 6) Have you taken LUX readings yet? Are you able to get at least 14,000 LUX in 12" of saltwater? 7) Will the light vary significantly in intensity and duration (photo-period) throughout the year in Venice? Will you get more shadowing when the sun is lower during "winter"? 8) What kind of corals do you plan on keeping? Shallow - medium - deep water species? I don't mean to put you on the spot. Feel free to answer with a "I'm not sure yet" if you're still working on the details as you go.

09/26/2007, 05:39 AM	#14
Adrianvh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 19	Great point Joe

09/26/2007, 06:09 AM	#15
Reefski's Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Topanga Posts: 3,016	1) Are you supplementing the natural sunlight with artificial lighting? Does this cause a lot of shading, or do you have a reflector with a small footprint? reflectors with small footprint, about 1.5 sw feet per reflector. i will measure light for a few months with no supplemental light so see how it goes before deciding how many and how much. i will have some though and moon lights for night viewing. i have 6 10 watt led's for moon lights. 2) How long is the effective photo-period with just sunlight? Do you get at least 8 hours of full intensity? it ramps up during the day but i think at least right now it is at least 8 hours of very bright sun. it is not always high noon on the reef either. there is shading as the sun moves which i think is really cool and will give growth in a way the point source of MH won't do. 3) Does the skylight heat the tank significantly, or create hot spots? i don't know yet. exhaust fans will be in the skylight shaft. the skylight is opening. 4) Does the skylight filter out all of the light between 310-360 nm (Uv A)? Or will you use a poly plastic filter for this purpose? it is supposed to transmit about 50% of the UV, single glazed acrylic. transmits 95% light and the Anolux is 87% reflective and that includes the UV. 5) How do you plan on amending the light to 14,000 - 20,000 kelvin degrees? Will you use a blue filter above above the tank in the light well opening? I don't, but i will use high Kelvin bulbs in my lighting. 6) Have you taken LUX readings yet? Are you able to get at least 14,000 LUX in 12" of saltwater? there is no water in the tank yet. PAR readings are 1400-1600 during peak hours. 7) Will the light vary significantly in intensity and duration (photo-period) throughout the year in Venice? Will you get more shadowing when the sun is lower during "winter"? of course and there are cloudy morning during part of the year although our temps are mild especially here near the beach and rainfall average is about 15 inches so many sunny days per year. 8) What kind of corals do you plan on keeping? Shallow - medium - deep water species? shallow water species. a few LPS, no zoanthids or soft corals.

09/26/2007, 11:56 AM	#16
hahnmeister Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brew City, WI Posts: 10,156	"PAR readings are 1400-1600 during peak hours." Holy Crap thats overkill... I have actual PAR calculations for various corals at depths in the wild, and thats very a very bright peak. Most corals are collected from the 10-15m range, where the PAR is in the 300 range. I asked Dana Riddle to send me the actual numbers, and he sent me pretty much a whole paper, graphs and all. Very cool stuff. In Julian Sprung/C. Delbeek's Reef Aquarium Vol. 3, pages 444-449, there is going to be alot oof information you are going to want to see.

09/26/2007, 04:11 PM	#18
hahnmeister Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brew City, WI Posts: 10,156	In Delbeek/Sprungs book there is. There are 'rough conversions' given. Of course, you cant convert Lux to PAR, but there are Lux values and PAR values given at various depths... and considering we cant match the light spectrum with regards to gradient anyways, the translation is pretty good. Top of p449, Sprung says... 'The greatest variety of coral growth occurs at depths between 10-15 meters (33 and 50ft.) where light intensities are lower than 20,000 Lux (Dustan, 1982) or 300 microMol/m2/s (Harker, 1999b).' So if we disregard the spectrum a bit (since or tanks cant mimic nature by a larger margin of error than PAR being coverted to Lux), it would seem that a PAR of 150 is equal to 10,000 Lux.

09/26/2007, 05:04 PM	#19
Reefski's Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Topanga Posts: 3,016	maybe i mislead you all. that is the value out of the water. i have no water yet. i am sure it will attenuate considerably to a nice healthy amt. i am very anxous to get water in the tank but the rest of the house construction has taken precedence for the moment. i have the book and will reread that section. Carl

12/27/2007, 03:21 AM	#20
Earl87gta Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: North Fla Posts: 303	Do you guys know the max effective distance the sola tubes can carry light I have my tank in the basement of a 2 story house so I would have to have a tube almost 28 feet to get the light to the tank . Do you think the light intensity would be too little by the time I got to the tank for this to be any good for me. I would love to find a way to save on the electric bill. __________________ Earl 250gl In wall tank set up on Dec 27 2003 with a 20 gal sump for heaters and skimmer and a 30gal summp used for a ref

12/27/2007, 04:53 AM	#21
stevelkaneval Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: oshkosh wisconsin Posts: 633	what if you live in wi and the sun is further away? will this still work i was thinking about doing 2-3 in the house we are building for a really big tank. __________________ "I live too serve you lord Megatron." "Were is the cube?" "The humans have taken it." "You fail me yet again Star Scream, get them." Current Tank Info: 20 long,korilia 1,and small ph,aquaclear70 moded fuge,coralife pc's,aqualight flouresent,seaclone skimmer,35lbs lr,green mushrooms and red and blue,and dragon eye zoas,assorted hermit crabs,nassarius snails,turbo snail,

12/27/2007, 04:54 AM	#22
stevelkaneval Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: oshkosh wisconsin Posts: 633	oops i meant in the winter months __________________ "I live too serve you lord Megatron." "Were is the cube?" "The humans have taken it." "You fail me yet again Star Scream, get them." Current Tank Info: 20 long,korilia 1,and small ph,aquaclear70 moded fuge,coralife pc's,aqualight flouresent,seaclone skimmer,35lbs lr,green mushrooms and red and blue,and dragon eye zoas,assorted hermit crabs,nassarius snails,turbo snail,

12/27/2007, 06:39 AM	#23
Reefski's Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Topanga Posts: 3,016	28 feet is a long way. how would you get it through the rooms above without it being obnoxious in the rooms above. of course it will be less in the winter months. Steve, when you build that new tank think of putting a skylight shaft over it not just a couple of tubes. here is what i am working on. Carl

12/27/2007, 08:06 AM	#24
conorwynne Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 433	That's amazing looking. Well done. I imagine you wont need any supplimental lighting with that setup. Aside from night time viewing that is. Regards Conor. __________________ New tank (468L or 120G) has salt and rock, just add coral and fish! Current Tank Info: New tank in progress....

12/27/2007, 10:22 AM	#25
rogergolf66 im an addict lol Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Land o lakes, FLorida Posts: 12,930	won't need night time veiwing either. Natural moon light will look great in there. __________________ Goal levels: salinity 35ppt, temp 78-79, alk 8-9, cal 430-450, mag 1310-1400 po4 .03, no3 1-3 Current Tank Info: System 1... 100 gal Zoa tank I built, 30 gal Ric Yuma shroom tank, 30 gal mix tank my sons,40 gal softie tank, 40 gal nem tank, two 40 gal LPS tank. System 2... 240 gal SPS display attached 100 gal frag SPS only tank.