Green SPS turn pale. Why?

[Lord,Darth Bane]

Update:

For the amount of K I need to raise I decide to use powder than liquid form of K supplement so I bought the BWA Potassion P, which is KCl and K2SO4.

Direction stated that 1g of powder in 1 USG would raise 129ppm.

So for my 300L system, 1g raise 1.633ppm.

From 320ppm to 380ppm I need to raise about 60ppm.

My 300L system would need 36g to raise 60ppm.

I dissolved 36g of Potassion P in 400ml of water to create a solution, which 10ml of the solution would raise 1.5ppm in the system.

It is said that the maxium dosage is to raise 10ppm of K per day.

I decide to dose 50ml of the solution to raise 7.5ppm per day.

By the time that the 400ml solution is finished the K level of the tank should be around 380ppm.

Lets see if this help.

[Horace]

K was one of the things I dosed too when my greens suffered. Was a waste of time and money. It didn't help one bit. Trust me....just FEED

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[biecacka]

side not......Kurt, any good LFS in Atlanta worth checking out? Im coming down to Tucker this weekend from Columbus Ohio.

corey

[Horace]

I'm somewhat new to the area, but Pure Reef is a nice store. One that is less pristine, but typically good selection is Atlanta Aquarium (not THE Atlanta Aquarium of course lol)

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[biecacka]

Cool, I'll try to check them out between my golf rounds!
I doubt I'll be buying much as I'm driving back and don't want to try to keep anything alive while on vacation.

Sorry to derail the thread..

Corey

[Lord,Darth Bane]

Update:

Guess I have finally figured another main problem.

The PO4 level was always undetectable with Salifert kit, that's why I haven't tested it for months.

After adding more fish, feeding more and raising NO3 from 0ppm to 3ppm, I expected PO4 would increase as well. Being curious and a bit afraid of PO4 level getting too high, I decided to get a Hanna 736 Phosphorus ULR checker.

It arrived today and the result is 0!

Couldn't believe. Check it again, and 0 again.

Still couldn't believe. Maybe bad reagent? Check again but use the dropper that I feed coral to get the tank water in order to add some "contaminant". OK, it shows 104. So the checker is working.

Thoughts?

I still believe that my water was too clean "lack of nutrients" which caused the pale colours. I would keep feeding and I intend to raise the phosphorus level to 10ppb (x3.066/1000= 0.03ppm PO4).

I don't know why the PO4 level is that low. Prodibio being too strong? I have already reduced dosage for a month. Rowa? I only use 50ml for 300L. I would stop using it after this August.

[Horace]

Originally Posted by Lord,Darth Bane

Update:

Guess I have finally figured another main problem. :icon_eek:

The PO4 level was always undetectable with Salifert kit, that's why I haven't tested it for months.

After adding more fish, feeding more and raising NO3 from 0ppm to 3ppm, I expected PO4 would increase as well. Being curious and a bit afraid of PO4 level getting too high, I decided to get a Hanna 736 Phosphorus ULR checker.

It arrived today and the result is 0!:surprised

Couldn't believe. Check it again, and 0 again. :surprised :surprised

Still couldn't believe. Maybe bad reagent? Check again but use the dropper that I feed coral to get the tank water in order to add some "contaminant". OK, it shows 104. So the checker is working.

Thoughts?

I still believe that my water was too clean "lack of nutrients" which caused the pale colours. I would keep feeding and I intend to raise the phosphorus level to 10ppb (x3.066/1000= 0.03ppm PO4).

I don't why the PO4 level is that low. Prodibio being too strong? I have already reduced dosage for a month. Rowa? I only use 50ml for 300L. I would stop using it after this August.

I told you

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[Lord,Darth Bane]

Originally Posted by Horace

I told you

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Looks like I need to feed more frozen food to add some PO4. Or Pappone meal?

[vakeros]

My case reduce flow to my rowa fr help

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[Horace]

Originally Posted by Lord,Darth Bane

2: Looks like I need to feed more frozen food to add some PO4. 2: Or Pappone meal? 2:

It really doesn't matter what u feed, just feed about double for a few weeks and keep watching

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[Lord,Darth Bane]

OK. Almost 9 months after and I would like to report back.

Most of the old photos links are dead. Needa find a better photo hosting site.

After I keep feeding and adjust the N and P to detectable level the green colour is coming back. The colours of the LPS also look much solid.

water para:
KH 7dKH
CA 420mg/L
Mg 1400mg/L
NO3 4ppm
PO4 0.015ppm
K 410mg/L

2017-06-10


2018-04-30


2017-08-05


2018-04-30


Same SPS. It has actually grown much bigger but I keep pruning and fragging it.




And a Red Planet in 7 months.

2017-09-23


2018-04-30



Now, while most of the colours are getting more solid, some are getting darker and brown. Looks like it is not easy to find the happy medium. I plan to dose carbon again to lower the N and P a little bit.

I have just finished my Prodibio and some other bottles and I am thinking of going full KZ without using Zeolite reactor. Any suggestion? Thinking of getting the bateria, carbon source, amino, food, and some supplement for twisting colours.

I still have the CV for food. And I have finished a bottle of Xtra Special but I didn't notice significant effect so I might try some other else.

[jda]

You can get far better results for color with better lights rather than chasing N and P or trying to use any supplements.

[Alex Costa]

IME iron plays an importante role in the greens, besides the NO3 level.
More than K levels.....

[Alex Costa]

Originally Posted by Lord,Darth Bane

NO3 4ppm
PO4 0.015ppm


Now, while most of the colours are getting more solid, some are getting darker and brown. Looks like it is not easy to find the happy medium. I plan to dose carbon again to lower the N and P a little bit.

I don't think that lowering down NO3 and PO4 will improve your colors.
It's possible to get good colors with these values.
I'll bet a chip in the lighting too.....

[kevin_e]

One thing that would have me hesistant to say lighting is an issue is that your current colors are much improved now than they were a year ago. I'm not seeing an issue color wise.

And if there are color issues starting now, not sure I would jump to the lighting considering a lot of your coral colored up significantly from last June. Seems something else changed.

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[Lord,Darth Bane]

Not interested in starting another LED vs T5 debate...... I have been using T5 since 2005 and for more than 10 years I know the pros and cons......I love my LED so far. Cooler, energy efficient, no need to change bulbs frequently and the most important is that it looks cleaner on my tank top especially when mine is a rimless tank. I am not going back to cover my tank with a bunch of T5's.

Now guys, I don't understand you. A year ago when I started this thread you commented that the pale colours was due to LED issue and not lack of nutrient. I checked my water which PO4 was 0. I then raised the nutrient level. A year later now I report back with better colours after I raised the nutrient level, and you are still blaming the LED? Even thoug the results have proved otherwise?

Some of my frags are actually coming from another tank running LED. He is running Aqua Forest and some of his mother SPS have better colours than mine. I dont believe it is a pure lighting issue. Like I said I am planning to go full KZ products and I would like to hear which bottles are better or which are the must have. I think I'd at least get the Zeobak, Zeostart, CV (still using), and Xtra. Others such as B balance and PIF I am not quite sure.....

Cheers.

[Tripod1404]

Originally Posted by Lord,Darth Bane

Not interested in starting another LED vs T5 debate...... I have been using T5 since 2005 and for more than 10 years I know the pros and cons......I love my LED so far. Cooler, energy efficient, no need to change bulbs frequently and the most important is that it looks cleaner on my tank top especially when mine is a rimless tank. I am not going back to cover my tank with a bunch of T5's.

Now guys, I don't understand you. A year ago when I started this thread you commented that the pale colours was due to LED issue and not lack of nutrient. I checked my water which PO4 was 0. I then raised the nutrient level. A year later now I report back with better colours after I raised the nutrient level, and you are still blaming the LED? Even thoug the results have proved otherwise?

Some of my frags are actually coming from another tank running LED. He is running Aqua Forest and some of his mother SPS have better colours than mine. I dont believe it is a pure lighting issue. Like I said I am planning to go full KZ products and I would like to hear which bottles are better or which are the must have. I think I'd at least get the Zeobak, Zeostart, CV (still using), and Xtra. Others such as B balance and PIF I am not quite sure.....

Cheers.

I agree with that it being a low N and P issue. I would actually increase phosphate a bit more. The argument of natural sea water having much less N and P concentration is flawed. Mainly because concentration is a unit that really doesn't mean anything. It just shows grams, moles etc. per volume. It doesnt show you the total amount of phosphate or nitrate. You can have 1 ppm of nitrate in 40 gallon tank and a 400 gallon tank. Concentration is the same but the corals in the 400 gallon tank has access to 10 times more nitrate. Most cell surface transporters that are involved in importing these molecules inside the cells are "high affinity low capacity transporters", so they can uptake N and P even when their concentrations are in nano or picomolar range. So concentration doesn't matter, what matters is total amount in given water volume.

And same logic also applies to coral reefs where concentration doesn't mean anything because of the vast volume of water. Having 0.00005ppm of something in millions and millions of gallons of water is still having a lot of it. It is true that there are coral reefs that have very low P and N. Phosphate can be as low as 0.0005 ppm in certain reefs. But it is that low because the reef( corals, algae and etc) suck up all the phosphate from the surrounding water. As an example open ocean has phosphate levels between ~0.01-0.03 ppm but when that water passes over the Kaneohe bay reef in Hawaii, it drops to 0.0005 ppm. So the reef itself is generating that ultra-oligotrophic conditions. Now imagine how much water is passing over that coral reef every day and how much phosphate is being taken up by the reef. Not to mention P and N takesn up by the corals in the forms of planktonic foods. Here is a research on the Kaneohe bay reef;

Mass‐transfer limitation of nutrient uptake by a wave‐dominated reef flat community
https://aslopubs.onlinelibrary.wiley...2004.49.5.1820



When we keep our tank with very low P and N, it is not replicating nature, it is starving corals. Becouse we dont have swells of P and N rich water constantly flowing over the corals in a closed tanl

[LexSkizzle]

Happy I found this thread. I bought two monti's home from the LFS that were colored a very deep red and green. They became very pale after about 2-3weeks in my tank. I immediately thought it was my LED's until I came across this thread. My parameters are all in check and just like the OP, my Phosphates and Nitrates are also at 0.

I will start bumping up the feedings today and up the bioload with some more fish.

My only concern now is other issues that can result from an increase in Phosphates and Nitrates like hair algae, diatoms, etc.? Let's see what happens..