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10/25/2010, 03:20 PM | #2526 |
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I clearly had this setup out of adjustment no wonder it didn't work properly. The main problem was the emergency drain being too low. Water flowed into it before the main drain established a siphon and the open channel also kicked in before the main drain. Thanks.
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John 100 gallon DT and 50 gallon sump with refugium. Reefbreeders Photon V2+. |
10/25/2010, 03:24 PM | #2527 | |
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Quote:
"Failsafe: The setup has (2) failsafe features. 1) The Emergency (left) standpipe is set at a level slightly higher than the normal operating height of the overflow box. It is simply an up-turned elbow or strainer. If the water level rises above the normal operating level then it will flow down the Emergency (left) standpipe. This standpipe is also airtight. If the water level rises high enough the standpipe will begin to siphon and flush the overflow box. NOTE:The Emergency (left) standpipe will also kick in during system startup. It takes a few moments for the air to be purged from the Siphon (middle) standpipe, during which time the water level in the overflow box may run high and into the Emergency (left) standpipe. 2) The Open Channel (right) standpipe is equipped with an airline that is attached in the overflow box. If the water level rises to the critical point of overflow and the Emergency (left) standpipe can not handle the flow (say due to blockage from algea or something) then the water will cover the inlet of the airline. The flooded air intake will in effect convert the Open Channel (right) standpipe into a full siphon standpipe, allowing it to handle much more flow. This will flush the overflow box and prevent flooding." (from page one of the original thread) This would say that the dry emergency should kick in first, and the airline trigger would trip as the last resort....have you changed the system logic? If so, there are a lot of systems I gotta go back and change-----
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"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." (oft attributed to Einstein; most likely paraphrasing by Roger Sessions; compactly articulates the principle of Occam's Razor) Current Tank Info: 325 6' wide Reef |
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10/25/2010, 03:48 PM | #2528 |
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Jim,
I have edited the posts to reflect that advice that has been passed on since the page and thread were first posted. In my haste to answer the question and eat my dinner, I posted without proofreading. The system will operate either way and I have found that a lot of folks set the airline height somewhere above the normal operating level. That may be above or below the emergency standpipe intake. Both the airline and the dry standpipe are fail-safe features. That said, it would be preferable to keep the airline as the final fail-safe for several reasons, but mostly to avoid the issue JTL was having getting the siphon to start. Thank you for pointing out the inconsistent advice... ambiguity creates questions and confusion and that is contrary to the goal of this design. |
10/25/2010, 04:03 PM | #2529 |
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I only thought I was confused before all this came about, and now I know I am. I guess it's a good thing I haven't finished it all yet.
Last edited by Misled; 10/31/2017 at 08:41 PM. |
10/25/2010, 04:16 PM | #2530 |
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Don't worry--you will be fine. Bean has been incredibly clear and concise in the design and operating parameters for this system. Whenever there is confusion go to his website (or page one of the original thread). It is all there. The system can operate with a couple mods, but always "default" to the info in those two places.
Jim
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"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." (oft attributed to Einstein; most likely paraphrasing by Roger Sessions; compactly articulates the principle of Occam's Razor) Current Tank Info: 325 6' wide Reef |
10/25/2010, 04:44 PM | #2531 |
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JTL, we obviously named the pipes differently .
I used the name "siphon" for the closed pipe, the one with the valve through which there is no air flowing. I used the name "open channel" for the pipe that takes the overflow and has the airline tubing to allow air to be sucked in for silent operation. The name "emergency" is for the pipe whose opening is oriented upwards and that takes water in only when the system starts or when one of the other pipes is clogged. So my recommendation was indeed to lower the pipe with the airline, to increase the resistance of the flow through it. Also by keeping the closed/siphon pipe bottom level right under the sump water level, its resistance is that the min level. Then, the water from overflow box will have an easier time to push the air down in the closed pipe and create the siphon/suction in it. |
10/25/2010, 06:15 PM | #2532 | |
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Quote:
Kinda funny, but we get the point.
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10/25/2010, 06:19 PM | #2533 | |
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Quote:
The system works as designed with the pipes terminating just below the sump water level. If it does not function correctly, there was an error in the setup, adjustment-- or both. Jim
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"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." (oft attributed to Einstein; most likely paraphrasing by Roger Sessions; compactly articulates the principle of Occam's Razor) Current Tank Info: 325 6' wide Reef |
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10/25/2010, 07:32 PM | #2534 |
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Hi.
Quick question. I have 3 bulkheads in my overflow box, two @.75" one at 1.5". I will be using one of the .75" bulkheads for the siphon. What should I use for my open channel the other .75" or the 1.5". I kinda think it might be smartest to use the 1.5" for the emergency but I have never used this system before and would like some feedback. Thanks Rich |
10/25/2010, 07:43 PM | #2535 |
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In my plumbing of these systems - I always up size the emergency drain.
T
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No....really honey, it was a gift! Current Tank Info: 700 gallon combined reef/frag systems - 650gal Cichlid system |
10/25/2010, 07:47 PM | #2536 |
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The problem here is that narrow open channel. You did not mention a flow rate, but the narrow open channel will be prone to turbulant (2 phase) flow where the air mixes with the water and creates a partial siphon.
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10/25/2010, 08:18 PM | #2537 |
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Ok cool. I will use the 1.5" for the open channel. I dont have the tank setup yet and dont know what pump (or sump) I will have. The tank I believe is a 140 gallons (72lx15wx30t). I am currently replacing all the bulkheads and they were all sch80 from the previous owner. I did water test it last night and got roughly 1600gph through one .75" with full siphon, with only two 45 degree elbows.
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10/25/2010, 10:11 PM | #2538 |
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Figured this to be the best place to ask this question.
Working on my 125g now and going with an internal/external overflow with the BA setup. For the outside box, is it best to go with 10mm glass for bottom/sides/back? I am assuming yes with the dimensions I have planned for the box. Internal box will be using 6mm glass. (External box will be 54"x5.5"x7", with 3 - 1.5" bulkheads on the bottom pane of glass) Thanks
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10/26/2010, 12:34 AM | #2539 | |
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Quote:
Or maybe it works just by luck . All I can tell for sure is that before lowering that pipe in the water, most of the times the siphon didn't form, while now it forms every time in less than 30 seconds. |
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10/26/2010, 01:00 AM | #2540 |
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Well, I will bet that if you set it up the way it was first described, (changing the trip order by raising the airline,) the system will work the way it is supposed to and eliminate the risk involved with having the pipe that deep in the sump. We just went over that a few posts ago..........
Consistency of design, setup, and adjustment makes it easy to troubleshoot a problem without hands on the system. It limits the possible causes. Siphon does not start up: air leak in the line or terminating too far below sump water level. Not the airline tripping the open channel too soon and/or the dry pipe too low.....or the air leak or the line too deep in the sump and or....... I would test that open channel by shutting off the siphon and dry emergency to make sure it will start a siphon. If it works it works.
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"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." (oft attributed to Einstein; most likely paraphrasing by Roger Sessions; compactly articulates the principle of Occam's Razor) Current Tank Info: 325 6' wide Reef Last edited by uncleof6; 10/26/2010 at 01:44 AM. |
10/26/2010, 01:12 AM | #2541 |
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Jim, thanks for pointing out the issue.
Yes, I should have keep up with the posts. I have some room in the overflow to lift the airline above the level of the emergency pipe. I will try it out soon. |
10/26/2010, 08:14 AM | #2542 |
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I just got a new tank and had it drilled in the top corners on each side on the back of the tank. I noticed that most people have their tanks drilled on the bottom or have it pre planned before they had their tank drilled. I wish i knew about this before i bought my tank but its too late now. I have strainers in my bulkheads. Can someone explain how i could run these silent systems with my set up??? I am running an exteral durso type set up...please help?
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10/26/2010, 08:30 AM | #2543 | |
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Quote:
Last edited by RocketSurgeon; 10/26/2010 at 08:31 AM. Reason: add to |
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10/26/2010, 08:53 AM | #2544 | |
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Quote:
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10/26/2010, 09:02 AM | #2545 |
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Build a calfo style internal weir. Then build an external box to hold the Bean Animal design.
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10/26/2010, 09:07 AM | #2546 |
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10/26/2010, 09:08 AM | #2547 | |
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Quote:
Something similar to this? http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...w=1097&bih=783 |
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10/26/2010, 09:12 AM | #2548 | |
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Quote:
http://web1.reefcentral.com/forums/s....php?t=1719629 Here is another thread to read. |
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10/26/2010, 09:22 AM | #2549 |
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My holes are on opposite ends.......would i be able to do anything without building the overflow box and the calfo? I have no idea how i would even do that. I guess my main objective is making my set up quieter....my set up know is a external durso style set up minus the downward elbows in the bulkhead inside of the tank.
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10/26/2010, 09:23 AM | #2550 |
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Please Help! I'm getting a 150g 60x30x20 rimless from Miracles. Havent started the build yet, so i'm looking for suggestions. Also looking to keep this simple(my 1st tank with an overflow).
I was quoted: Internal 3 sided rectangular overflow centered on back panel 2 drilled holes Should I just stick with that? or do 1x 1.5" drain and 2x 3/4" return holes ? Will an eheim 1262 pump serve my purposes? my sump with be a 40g breeder directly underneath the tank. Thanks! Last edited by geaux xman; 10/26/2010 at 09:33 AM. |
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beananimal, plumbing |
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