Reef Central Online Community

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Do It Yourself
Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Closed Thread
Thread Tools
Unread 03/25/2009, 03:38 PM   #476
ReefEnabler
Premium Member
 
ReefEnabler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 3,760
I wonder about adding Aluminum powder to epoxy resin, which I've heard can increase the thermal conductivity.... anybody here try that?


__________________
- Ryan B

"that is enough skimmate to ruin lives." - GSMguy

Current Tank Info: 220g Display, 70g sump, 35g frag, 50g fuge, 2x250w MH, 1x400w MH, 2x80w T5, 2x140w VHO Actinic
ReefEnabler is offline  
Unread 03/25/2009, 03:43 PM   #477
stugray
Premium Member
 
stugray's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Longmont, Co
Posts: 4,566
I would suggest using a phase change material under the star and then screwing the star to the heatsink.

The phase change material can be purchased from any electronics store or ebay.
It is what is suggested to put under CPU heatsinks.
It is even better than the thermal grease.

The Stars are meant to be screwed down.
That is why they are the shape they are.
Four screws would be fine.

If one burns out, it would take 5 minutes with a soldering iron to replace one.

Stu


__________________
Some people think that I have Attention Deficit Disorder. They just dont understand that........ Hey! Look a chicken!

Well, We KNOW GOD exists, but for US to exist without a GOD is preposterous….Umm wait a minute…. Sounds a bit circular to me…

Current Tank Info: 125 Gal. display w/80 gal mud/caulerpa sump. Basement sump w/ LED Grow Light,Gravity fed Reeflo200 skimmer w/ ORCA Recirc, DIY calc reactor & kalk stirrer. Inline plumbed 75 Gal frag/settling tank.
stugray is offline  
Unread 03/25/2009, 03:47 PM   #478
ReefEnabler
Premium Member
 
ReefEnabler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 3,760
I'll be screwing mine down (gotta use those taps for something!) but was just speculating. I did read a DIY once where somebody used epoxy and thermal grease on a star... I guess to avoid having to tap the heatsink?

I'll look into that phase change material. But I already have some thermal grease, is it really worth going for the better stuff here?


__________________
- Ryan B

"that is enough skimmate to ruin lives." - GSMguy

Current Tank Info: 220g Display, 70g sump, 35g frag, 50g fuge, 2x250w MH, 1x400w MH, 2x80w T5, 2x140w VHO Actinic
ReefEnabler is offline  
Unread 03/25/2009, 04:58 PM   #479
kcress
Registered Member
 
kcress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central California Coast.
Posts: 5,383
I've only ever screwed them down. I got away with two screws per.

A real pain to tap all the holes though.


kcress is offline  
Unread 03/25/2009, 05:07 PM   #480
tholton33
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cedar Rapids. IA
Posts: 95
self tapping screws


tholton33 is offline  
Unread 03/25/2009, 05:23 PM   #481
CJerome21
Registered Member
 
CJerome21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Saratoga Springs
Posts: 557
That is what I was going to ask, I see most people drilling and tapping, is there any great advantage to this versus drilling and using a self tapping screw?


CJerome21 is offline  
Unread 03/25/2009, 05:48 PM   #482
jubjub
Registered Member
 
jubjub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: vacaville, cali
Posts: 2,698
btw i wanna say i voted for this TOTM and gotten me quite excited about trying a LED setup mostly for cost of electricity, and bulbs over the years.... seeems like a very good investment...

also soundwave, i notice you have some monti caps/SPS in your tank other then the green cap mysteriously bleeching any other problems with highlight corals.


__________________
"The world holds two classes of men - intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence." - Abu Ala Al-Maari
jubjub is offline  
Unread 03/25/2009, 05:57 PM   #483
Soundwave
Registered Member
 
Soundwave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Maroa, Il
Posts: 361
I used arctic alumina epoxy for the LEDs. For those of you using screws be sure they're stainless.

As far as other corals, everything was fine and my orange monti along with its frags are still growing at an incredible pace.


Soundwave is offline  
Unread 03/25/2009, 06:08 PM   #484
ReefEnabler
Premium Member
 
ReefEnabler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 3,760
why not use nylon screws... would the heatsink really get too hot for them??


__________________
- Ryan B

"that is enough skimmate to ruin lives." - GSMguy

Current Tank Info: 220g Display, 70g sump, 35g frag, 50g fuge, 2x250w MH, 1x400w MH, 2x80w T5, 2x140w VHO Actinic
ReefEnabler is offline  
Unread 03/25/2009, 06:12 PM   #485
CJerome21
Registered Member
 
CJerome21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Saratoga Springs
Posts: 557
I read in another thread where someone asked about that, you can not tighten them down enough and they tend to break or strip when stressed to the point in this application.

Any input on my drill/tap question above.


CJerome21 is offline  
Unread 03/25/2009, 06:14 PM   #486
fernandokng
Registered Member
 
fernandokng's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: New York City
Posts: 425
This was my question as well...

It's harder to take off if the bulbs blow out, but so much easier than drilling all these holes no?

Quote:
Originally posted by CJerome21
That is what I was going to ask, I see most people drilling and tapping, is there any great advantage to this versus drilling and using a self tapping screw?



fernandokng is offline  
Unread 03/25/2009, 06:16 PM   #487
ReefEnabler
Premium Member
 
ReefEnabler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 3,760
I wasn't expecting to have to tigthen them down much at all... wouldn't just snug suffice? I've tightened some nylon thumbscrews pretty darn tight before to stop leaks on o-rings and never had an issue...

I dont know if self tapping would create a clean enough hole to use over and over? I think tapping properly gives a much better result thats not as likely to become stripped.


__________________
- Ryan B

"that is enough skimmate to ruin lives." - GSMguy

Current Tank Info: 220g Display, 70g sump, 35g frag, 50g fuge, 2x250w MH, 1x400w MH, 2x80w T5, 2x140w VHO Actinic
ReefEnabler is offline  
Unread 03/25/2009, 07:34 PM   #488
Soundwave
Registered Member
 
Soundwave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Maroa, Il
Posts: 361
Aluminum threads are really really delicate...


Soundwave is offline  
Unread 03/25/2009, 08:14 PM   #489
fernandokng
Registered Member
 
fernandokng's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: New York City
Posts: 425
Someone mentioned this a lot earlier in the thread - Anyone opinion on using TIM (Thermal Interface Material)

Posted by Canoe on 03/03/2009 07:17 AM:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by stugray
...
One thing I would ask, is have you tried to remove a star from the heatsink after using that epoxy? Do they Pop right off with a screwdriver? ... My plan was to use heat sink 'compound' and screw ( instead of glue ) the stars to the heat sink. It would make future replacements much quicker & easier. ...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I don't know how Reef-Safe the thermal compound/paste would be. Some even have copper or silver. And paste has problems with degraded performance due to air voids forming with thermal cycling. Twelve hours full on, twelve hours of "moon"? If you had the stars held on with springs of some sort (instead of fixed fasteners, like screws or bolts) the springs can take up the slack when the paste expands/contracts with thermal cycling, so air voids within the paste are somewhat minimized.

There is an alternative. It transfers heat better than thermal epoxy, doesn't have the mess or thermal cycling problems of paste, easier to use and can't leak into the tank.

TIM (Thermal Interface Material) is available as sheets similar to double sided tape. Sissors or an exacto knife cuts it to size and shape, then peel one side and sitck it to the LED star, then stick the star in place and secure it with your screws


fernandokng is offline  
Unread 03/25/2009, 09:12 PM   #490
ejmitch
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 62
Congrats on the TOTM nomination! Voted!

I've been following this thread since the beginning, taking notes and designing my own LED light. Thank you so much everyone! (Soundwave especially!) I'm hoping to build my LED system after we move this summer. In the meantime this thread has been fantastic. I've also found great information at this nano-reef thread. Evilc66 has awesomely outlined many available options for LEDs, drivers, heatsinks, wiring, and much more.

Preview:
For my build I'm planning a 3' design like Soundwaves with two pods, but wider with 30 Cree XR-E (Royal Blue and Cool White) on each pod and 10 buckpucks. Notable adjustments/enhancement to "The Soundwave" are:
- dimmable, maybe
- drilled, taped, screwed LEDs
- wires run through drill holes into the heatsink fins.
- 60 degree optics, or 40 TBD
- a couple UV LEDs
- Integrated moonlights

Comments, suggestions, gripes welcome! My own thread coming when I get started.

I'm looking forward to reading about other peoples plans and trials. Hopefully I can add as much as I learn!

- Eric


__________________
- Eric

Current Tank Info: 90g reef, w/ 100g sump/growout
ejmitch is offline  
Unread 03/25/2009, 09:39 PM   #491
Sisterlimonpot
R.C. Fraternity President
 
Sisterlimonpot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Litchfeild Park AZ
Posts: 11,490
Blog Entries: 2
congrats on TOTM nomination. Got my vote


__________________
Jimmy
MASVC President

Dishes are done man!

Current Tank Info: 300 in progress
Sisterlimonpot is offline  
Unread 03/25/2009, 10:14 PM   #492
Soundwave
Registered Member
 
Soundwave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Maroa, Il
Posts: 361
OK. I tried optics just to satisfy my curiosity. I used the carclo wide ripple optics from LEDsupply and they made the fixture far far far far far far far brighter. I couldn't stand to look at it. However, I placed it over my tank a full 12 inches from the water surface only to be disappointed. It looked like someone had two huge spotlights over the tank. Not cool. I don't want to raise the fixture any higher so I took off every single lens that I just spent two hours installing.

If anyone plans on using optics, you may need to raise the fixture at least two feet off the water surface. This almost defeats the purpose.

Thought I would let everyone know.

If you want a decent spread, go without them.

Great on paper, not so much in real life.


Soundwave is offline  
Unread 03/25/2009, 10:23 PM   #493
stugray
Premium Member
 
stugray's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Longmont, Co
Posts: 4,566
Soundwave,

What about the optics only around the perimeter where the spread puts the light outside the tank?

Stu


__________________
Some people think that I have Attention Deficit Disorder. They just dont understand that........ Hey! Look a chicken!

Well, We KNOW GOD exists, but for US to exist without a GOD is preposterous….Umm wait a minute…. Sounds a bit circular to me…

Current Tank Info: 125 Gal. display w/80 gal mud/caulerpa sump. Basement sump w/ LED Grow Light,Gravity fed Reeflo200 skimmer w/ ORCA Recirc, DIY calc reactor & kalk stirrer. Inline plumbed 75 Gal frag/settling tank.
stugray is offline  
Unread 03/25/2009, 10:32 PM   #494
Soundwave
Registered Member
 
Soundwave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Maroa, Il
Posts: 361
I don't know. I might try them on just a few of the LEDs to see what happens. Maybe 6 LEDs on each side could have optics.

We shall see.


Soundwave is offline  
Unread 03/25/2009, 11:07 PM   #495
kcress
Registered Member
 
kcress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central California Coast.
Posts: 5,383
I don't think self tapping screws would work well on this application. Just my feeling from using ST screws on various things.

ejmitch; Looks like a plan. From Soundwave's experience maybe the 60 degree optics as apposed to the 40s. Ideally you would never get any light put on the glass. It helps it disappear and greatly reduces algae growth on it.

fernandokng's spring hold-downs would be really nice.. Where do I buy them? Dang.

Ryan; I wouldn't use nylon on something this hot and long running. Also a accidental dismount would be really bad. You don't need much pressure as you point out.

Soundwave; I think stugray's perimeter suggestion is excellent. I bet your viewing would be improved.


kcress is offline  
Unread 03/25/2009, 11:53 PM   #496
james3370
Registered Member
 
james3370's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: US ARMY - El Paso TX
Posts: 3,678
Quote:
Originally posted by Soundwave
......so I took off every single lens that I just spent two hours installing.
so i guess we can expect a post in the selling forum???

LOL


__________________
Yes I hear voices in my head, but they speak spanish
so I can't understand anything they say.

there's no place like 127.0.0.1

It's a shame that stupidity isn't painful....

Current Tank Info: currently tankless....but planning an AIO
james3370 is offline  
Unread 03/26/2009, 12:18 AM   #497
kcress
Registered Member
 
kcress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central California Coast.
Posts: 5,383
No - he'll be back in 2 hours.


kcress is offline  
Unread 03/26/2009, 07:52 AM   #498
ejmitch
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 62
Soundwave - What degree lense did you use?

With the 60 degree lenses I was planning to spread the LEDs 2-2.5" apart and cover most of the top of the tank. MY lights are already 8-10" off the water in a canopy.

- Eric


__________________
- Eric

Current Tank Info: 90g reef, w/ 100g sump/growout
ejmitch is offline  
Unread 03/26/2009, 08:41 AM   #499
Beaun
It's pronounced Bone
 
Beaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: East Hampton, NY
Posts: 1,967
I would suggest getting the thermal epoxy (arctic silver or whatever) and Fans for cooling from newegg.com if you cant get them locally. We dont really have computer shops around here. Newegg.com will give you the best prices, great reviews and info on products, and have great customer service. you can look at the specifications for fans and find very quite ones that would be perfect for this appliction (no real need for high RPM's).
I'm very interested in doing this myself, seeing it step by step makes me more and more interested in it.


__________________
-Tyler

"The only legitimate use of a computer is to play games."
-Eugene Jarvis

Current Tank Info: None

Last edited by Beaun; 03/26/2009 at 08:46 AM.
Beaun is offline  
Unread 03/26/2009, 08:41 AM   #500
ReefEnabler
Premium Member
 
ReefEnabler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 3,760
So I am thinking of ordering some of these after Stu's advice, intersting how they're solid at room temperature.

http://www.thermalfx.com/merchant2/m...P&Store_Code=T

It's funny... I remember a looong time ago when I was doing alot of DIY computer overclocking and trying out different heatsinks... I had a heatsink, some of the thermaltake heatsinks came with this stuff on it. What'd I do?? Removed it and used thermal greese Had no idea what it was

But still my 600mhz AMD Duron ran at 1 ghz for years without issue that was a fun easy DIY - all it needed was a pencil


__________________
- Ryan B

"that is enough skimmate to ruin lives." - GSMguy

Current Tank Info: 220g Display, 70g sump, 35g frag, 50g fuge, 2x250w MH, 1x400w MH, 2x80w T5, 2x140w VHO Actinic

Last edited by ReefEnabler; 03/26/2009 at 08:51 AM.
ReefEnabler is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2022
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.