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Unread 04/05/2009, 04:04 PM   #626
widmer
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Thanks for the help ReefEnabler. That sounds well enough within reach for me to do.

Question 2:

Does anyone know why the OP used CREE LEDs rather than the K2 Stars?

I've got my eyes on the Original K2 Star Royal Blue high current $7.49 and the 180 lumen TFFC Cool White Star $8.49


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Unread 04/05/2009, 05:51 PM   #627
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soundwave,
do you have to use the buckpuck for this?
would a series of 3 LED's work on a 12v regulated power supply alone?
I have a 50A 12V regulated power supply from my CB radio days that I can use for power,I don't fully understand the buckpuck


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Unread 04/05/2009, 05:58 PM   #628
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Quote:
Originally posted by widmer
Thanks for the help ReefEnabler. That sounds well enough within reach for me to do.

Question 2:

Does anyone know why the OP used CREE LEDs rather than the K2 Stars?

I've got my eyes on the Original K2 Star Royal Blue high current $7.49 and the 180 lumen TFFC Cool White Star $8.49
I have ordered the Cree xr-e'son stars for 6.00ea from etgtech.com. They are shipping next week. I have heard great things about them and seems like you can't go wrong with them. This is the best price that i have found other than dealextreme, but i have heard that they take a long time to ship.. we shall see. You have to email anna@etgcorp.com for ordering.


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Unread 04/05/2009, 06:00 PM   #629
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Soundwave,

AWESOME write up. Went through the entire thread lastnight. Very torough.......answered all my questions - par's, spectrum, power consumption, height placement, etc.

From a costing perspective, I'm considering purchasing the CREE XRE's from www.dealextreme.com. I know you prefer www.ledsupply.com as your source. Do you know if dealextreme sells the same CREE's you're using ?? If yes, will you be able to provide the part numbers.

Once again, thanks for putting together such a thorough writeup !!


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Unread 04/06/2009, 10:41 AM   #630
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Wow the dealextreme website is CHEAP. Watch out for those quantity deals ("buy 3+ and save") Not sure if this link will work or not but...

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2395

Cree XR-E Q2 Emitter with Star, $3.24 each shipped when you buy 10+

The DIY LED just got twice as feasible for me...


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Unread 04/06/2009, 10:41 AM   #631
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widmer: I chose the CREE just because that was my preference. Why that is my preference... Not sure.

redtop: You could use a 12V 50a supply but you would need to match the amperage output to the number of LEDs. What I mean is you can't have 50 amps of juice running through 3 LEDs. They'll be super bright for about a tenth of a second, though. The buckpuck regulates the amperage for LED use. You will be limited by voltage at that point.

byee: The only CREE LEDs that DX sells are the Q5 WG. They are bright enough for this application but they are horrible at shipping. I have placed many orders with DX and they can take a month to ship as they are always "waiting on supplier" when you check your shipment status. LEDsupply, however, has the LEDs on my doorstep in 3 days.

As far as I know, you can't get the royal blue from DX, either.


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Unread 04/06/2009, 10:50 AM   #632
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widmer: I would shy away from the Q2 version. They only produce 87 lumens at 350ma where the Q4 is 100 and the Q5 is 107. The WC color code is good but, again, I hate DX and you will have to wait a long time for them. Also, you will need more to be able to get the intensity you need.

You could give it a shot, though. I'm curious how well they work.


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Unread 04/06/2009, 12:34 PM   #633
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In regards to LEDsupply.com, I'd have to hold my judgement of their quality support until my delivery issue gets resolved first. They are currently investigating.

I bought LEDS, Buckpucks, Optic Holders, and Optics - over $400 worth of stuff.

I got the package this Saturday, and all it had were the Optics. I figured that they might have shipped it in different boxes, but logically that didn't make any sense.

So I called them today (somewhat irritated because I couldn't start on the project) - and they said they had packaged everything in the box. But of obviously it wasn't there. They told me to check the box more carefully. And Trust me, I did. The box had no damage or signs of opening whatsoever. It's also pretty easy to tell whether the box is empty or not. And it's also pretty easy to see if a box doesn't have 24 leds, 8 buckpucks, and 48 optic holders.

Long story short, they will come back to me with an update, and I will keep you all posted.


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Unread 04/06/2009, 12:52 PM   #634
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fernandokng; Ah man.. That is a nightmare story..


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Unread 04/06/2009, 01:19 PM   #635
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Quote:
Originally posted by Soundwave
widmer: I would shy away from the Q2 version. They only produce 87 lumens at 350ma where the Q4 is 100 and the Q5 is 107. The WC color code is good but, again, I hate DX and you will have to wait a long time for them. Also, you will need more to be able to get the intensity you need.

You could give it a shot, though. I'm curious how well they work.
Hi there. I appreciate you clarifying the details for me, I'm at a moderately n00bish level here, and it probably would have taken some time looking at datasheets for me to notice the difference. In light of your help, here's v2.0 of my above post.

Cree XR-E Q5 Emitter on Premium Star (228LM at 1A)
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2394
10+ units are $5.18 shipped each.

Anyone have any comments on this color code (WG)?


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Unread 04/06/2009, 01:26 PM   #636
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so i'm about to order a 350mA dimable w/ pot & a 500mA standard buckpucks for my build to replace the ones i bought earlier....1 too big & 1 not dimable

so i have a 700mA & a 350mA standard buckpucks if somebody needs them for their build......CHEAP


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Unread 04/06/2009, 02:58 PM   #637
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excellent


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Unread 04/06/2009, 03:35 PM   #638
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Kcress : What a horrible Start! :-(

Widmer:

There's also this one DX: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1775

I think this may be the Blue Cree XR EQ4's, but there is no bin code to verify.


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Unread 04/06/2009, 08:30 PM   #639
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Quote:
Originally posted by fernandokng
Kcress : What a horrible Start! :-(

Widmer:

There's also this one DX: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1775

I think this may be the Blue Cree XR EQ4's, but there is no bin code to verify.
At $3.33 that would be a great deal if they are the Q4's. It's awfully peculiar that there is no identification though... Anyone else care to ponder?


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Unread 04/06/2009, 09:52 PM   #640
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Sorry I'm having too much fun here, but from dealsextreme, using the white and blue LEDs aforementioned on this page, the cost of the 24 blues and 24 whites given in the OP's original example drops from ~$350 to ~$200


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Unread 04/07/2009, 10:25 AM   #641
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Technical question:

I'm playing with the idea of making one of these to go on the ceiling above my 15 gallon (12" by 24" footprint) tank. I'm thinking about using 14 of the aforementioned blue LEDs and 14 of the aforementioned white LEDs. Now:

If I bought a heatsink from heatsinkusa.com like Soundwave, and if it was 10" by 8.5", could I put all 28 LEDs on this heatsink and not have to worry about the heat produced if I had a fan on it too?

This would be somewhere around 67 and 96 watts of LED light depending on whether I go with 0.7 or 1.0 amp buck pucks (with 4x24v strings of LEDs)

Should I be worried it will be too much or is it well within range?


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Unread 04/07/2009, 10:27 AM   #642
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It will probably get pretty warm.

This is just my opinion, but if I was going to do LEDs on the cieling like that, I would break them into multiple smaller fixtures and mount them a few feet apart, and have them all angled at the tank. I think this way you get better coverage for branching corals instead of having all downward rays.


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Unread 04/07/2009, 11:26 AM   #643
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That was kind of the plan. I was going to buy the 10 degree lenses off of dealextreme. Then, six feet away from each LED (this is the distance from ceiling to sand bed for me), it's circle projected should be ~12" diameter. Taking a cue from liveforphysics, I would attempt to be very careful not to illuminate the tank's glass at all.

So I was actually thinking about buying the "large heatsink" off heatsinkusa's website, and cutting it in half the long way. Then there could be 2x 7 LED rows on each 10x4 heatsink (as well as a fan on each), and they could be fitted a few inches apart from each other into a slightly larger, hollow frame, which would allow both to be angled so that the outer edges of the light could come down just inside the tank's footprint, and virtually all of the light would be broadcast inward towards the center.

The more I think about it, I'd imagine it would be just fine. After all, the OP has 24 LEDs mounted on each foot-long heatsink, and my conceptual configuration is just a little bit more LED per heatsink area.


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Unread 04/07/2009, 11:33 AM   #644
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As an additional fun application, I was thinking it could be a lot of fun to mount a single 3.6w 65k LED with 10 degree lens on an old $5 CPU heatsink and put it up on the ceiling above my betta bowl and put it on a cellphone charger or something similar that provides the right range of volts/amps. That would be a really fun, $10 total cost application. I would encourage anyone who is playing with the idea of LEDs but isn't ready to pour a few hundred$ into them, to try something similar to this to get a taste of what they'd be like.


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Unread 04/07/2009, 11:46 AM   #645
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I think your plan sounds great.... just be careful cutting the heatsink on a table saw... the thick aluminum can throw some heavy shavings out fast enough to stick into your skin... wear a long sleeve shirt (but keep it well away from your hands), and safety goggles are a must. go slow. even a full face shield is a good idea if you have one... those shavings can HURT!


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Unread 04/07/2009, 12:38 PM   #646
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Soundwave

redtop: You could use a 12V 50a supply but you would need to match the amperage output to the number of LEDs. What I mean is you can't have 50 amps of juice running through 3 LEDs. They'll be super bright for about a tenth of a second, though. The buckpuck regulates the amperage for LED use. You will be limited by voltage at that point.

thanks,

I read the write up on the LED web site you posted about the buckpuck,I got a little better understanding now.


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Unread 04/07/2009, 03:38 PM   #647
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widmer; On heat sinks.

Most here are massively large overkill. They are set up as if hundreds of watts of heat were needing to be jettisoned. Look at the CPU coolers in your computers, often they are dumping a 100W out of that little square heat sink with a fan.

The huge plate heat sinks Soundwave used are cool looking - like really his whole setup - but they are far more than actually required. They are not bad in anyway, I'm just saying if you're contemplating something like your Beta bowl you need no fan. I've built commercial white 350mA units that were stars screwed to only flat 0.062" thick aluminum free-air mounted. They ran much cooler than the specs required by the LEDs.

If you have a fan involved you need almost nothing for a heat sink. Fans can improve any system cooling by at least 3X over no fan and sometimes up to about 10X. You do need to pay attention that the fan's air flow actually moves across the material you want to carry the heat away from.. Just randomly tagging a fan onto a situation needing cooling probably gets some spots excessive unneeded flow, while other areas may get none. You have to make sure you duct the air reasonably.

I'd like to find some heat sink material that's about 1/8" thick flat one one side with short fins ~1/4"- 3/8" on the other side. I need to hunt around.


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Unread 04/07/2009, 05:19 PM   #648
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kcress-

Thanks for the comprehensive information on the heatsinks. It's really something I have no prior experience with. By your point of view then, do you suppose that I could potentially save a lot of money by mounting a string of these onto 1" square aluminum tubing from the hardware store then? It would be like 7 of these things across a 10" section of 1" square aluminum tube... that would be a big money saver.


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Unread 04/07/2009, 05:38 PM   #649
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If you think the tube is questionable as a heatsink...I bet if you were to take that square tubing and use a miter saw to make lots of cuts into it, you could really increase the amount of surface area for the air to pass over and make it more efficient; and if you left 1/4 or 1/2" uncut it would still have plenty of strength.

probably not necessary but I think it would help. with just the square tube not much flow will be INSIDE the tube (depending on fan placement as kcress aluded to), so that whole surface area is essentially wasted... making cuts allows the air everywhere and increases surface area overall.


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Last edited by ReefEnabler; 04/07/2009 at 05:45 PM.
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Unread 04/07/2009, 05:52 PM   #650
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For cooling I was curious if one of those over-clockers refer units might work.
They recirculate water through the CPU heatsink & remove it in the chiller.
These are very quiet & wondered if anyone had considered water cooling for the heatsink.....

Stu


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